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Hey guys,

So I'm putting together a 10 man Sanguinary Guard squad and would like some advice on the loadout for them.

I'm pretty much set on having the following in the squad;

x1 banner
x1 power fist
x2 axes
x2 inferno pistols

The question I have is, what would be a decent configuration?

Axe & bolter
Axe & bolter
Power fist & bolter
Sword & inferno pistol
Sword & inferno pistol
Sword & bolter (with banner)
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter

With the config above you can see I've spread out the upgrades. The reason for this is mainly because the I think the inferno pistols would be better off on guys with swords, seeing as they have a 6" range they'll have to be at the front when they use them, and if I lose one, I'd rather he didn't also have a power fist or an axe.

So what do you think? Should I condense it a bit? Move the banner onto the power fist or an axe guy? Move an inferno pistol around?

Any thoughts would be great. They will also be run with a Sanguinary Priest if it's any help.

I keep them minimal cost unless it is Dante's squad, in which case they all have inferno pistols and the banner.

I generally try to keep the cost of my guard low. The lack of invuln means that AP2 will kill them quick, and if you make them into too much of a point sink, they'll just die faster.

My normal loadout is 3 swords, 1 axe, and 1 powerfist. A chapter banner if I have the points, but I don't always. Run them in a Golden Host if you can.

I have a differing opinion on Dante's squad however. I don't generally give them a bunch of upgrades, because Dante is enough of an upgrade. you're spending about 160 for the guard plus 220 for Dante, and that in itself is a huge point sink. If I was going to take an upgrade with them, I would take a Sanguinary Priest with a Jump Pack before I took any more special things on my guard, because these guys suffer from survivability, not lack of chopping.

The pistol are super valuable in Dante's squad because they fire every turn.

Martel732 wrote:
I keep them minimal cost unless it is Dante's squad, in which case they all have inferno pistols and the banner.

The upgrades for what I listed only come in at 55pts, so I think that is pretty reasonable. Part of me is wondering if I should put the power fist on the guy with the banner? The swords and axes are two-handed after all.. Only problem with that is he'll be carrying 35pts in upgrades. Though if I bury him in the squad to keep the banner alive?...

1 Power Fist per 5 and pretend they're fancy Death Company, and then use the Death Company rules.

Teo wrote:
I generally try to keep the cost of my guard low. The lack of invuln means that AP2 will kill them quick, and if you make them into too much of a point sink, they'll just die faster.

My normal loadout is 3 swords, 1 axe, and 1 powerfist. A chapter banner if I have the points, but I don't always. Run them in a Golden Host if you can.

I have a differing opinion on Dante's squad however. I don't generally give them a bunch of upgrades, because Dante is enough of an upgrade. you're spending about 160 for the guard plus 220 for Dante, and that in itself is a huge point sink. If I was going to take an upgrade with them, I would take a Sanguinary Priest with a Jump Pack before I took any more special things on my guard, because these guys suffer from survivability, not lack of chopping.

Do you normally run a 5-man squad then? My Sanguinary Priest is an auto include with them for the FNP.

I think that's a waste of points. I think it's cheaper to just buy more SG. The need for WS is mitigated by the master-crafted as well.

Martel732 wrote:
I think that's a waste of points. I think it's cheaper to just buy more SG. The need for WS is mitigated by the master-crafted as well.

What about the FNP though? It makes up for their lack of invulnerable save and helps them stick around a little longer.

SG are models best magnetized so you can try different things. I personally settled on 2 swords, 2 axes, one fist for 5 man. 3 axes, 2 fists, 5 swords for swords. I never bother with infernus pistols letting other things open cans first.

FNP does not make up for a lack of an invul. You do not get FNP against something that incurs instant death, and the save is higher than most SM invuls. It's helpful, but do not mistake it for a replacement. That being said, it is indeed still helpful.

Keep in mind that SG are going to lose to terminators since they lack an invul, so you really need to ask yourself what you want your SG to do, and equip them appropriately. Generally they're best at killing MEQ and up.

I use golden host to pick on units that can't really fight back. I don't need the FNP in that case, and the priest can't join golden host anyway.

 troa wrote:
FNP does not make up for a lack of an invul. You do not get FNP against something that incurs instant death, and the save is higher than most SM invuls. It's helpful, but do not mistake it for a replacement. That being said, it is indeed still helpful.

Keep in mind that SG are going to lose to terminators since they lack an invul, so you really need to ask yourself what you want your SG to do, and equip them appropriately. Generally they're best at killing MEQ and up.

Yeah, sorry. Bad choice of words on my part there. I did actually say that it helps to make up for the lack of invulnerable save, but changed it before I posted it!

I definitely won't be sending them in against terminators. I think the encarmine swords are only AP3, so even with all the initiative, strength and WS bonuses they can have, terminators will still get their 2+ save, and the handful of axe / power fist attacks won't make up for that if everyone fights at I1.

No worries, just want to make sure it's clear and you realize it, which you do.

So then the question is why do you need AP2 or increased strength? They'll chew through MEQ at initiative with just the swords (which are indeed AP3)

Axes help vs vehicles a lot actually without sacrificing attacks like a powerfist.

 troa wrote:
No worries, just want to make sure it's clear and you realize it, which you do.

So then the question is why do you need AP2 or increased strength? They'll chew through MEQ at initiative with just the swords (which are indeed AP3)

That is very true! I guess it's because axes are free and add a bit more punch to the unit. There's also the possibility that you might need to go in against something tougher or you end up in a tricky situation when something creeps up on you. I guess versatility is the answer. That's why I'd only go one axe per 5 at the most. The power fist is kinda the same reason really, but I only included one in the 10-man squad.

Martel732 wrote:
Axes help vs vehicles a lot actually without sacrificing attacks like a powerfist.

I think they have the same amount of attacks, don't they? The only thing you miss out on is the master-crafted re-rolls. I've found that assault squads are even able to glance something like a rhino to death, on the charge.

I forget the weapons are doublehanded. Dumb!

After much thought, I've decided to go with the following;

Sanguinary Priest
Axe & bolter
Axe & bolter
Power fist & bolter with banner (will magnetise the power fist)
Sword & inferno pistol
Sword & inferno pistol
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter
Sword & bolter

This way I could field a min squad of 5 with sword & bolters if I choose to, and I could add the banner in without the power fist if needed. An axe could also easily be swapped in, as could an inferno pistol. As they stand, I think this would make a decent 10-man unit too. The banner is probably the most important model in the squad (along with the Sanguinary Priest), so bury him in the middle and a power fist should be safe on him. There's plenty of attacks at full imitative with all the swords (4 each on the charge) all AP 3. The amount of dice thrown will cause issues to most units, and the AP 2 from the axes and power fist should clean up. Inferno pistols when needed, will come to the front of the squad which will obviously expose them a little. If I were to lose one, it is the only upgrade on the model, so it's not as big of a loss.

I played out a handful of assaults against a terminator squad yesterday to get the feel of how they will work, and they decimated the terminators every time - without a single loss. (Praise be upon the dice gods..)

Here's how it plays out in a basic form against a standard terminator squad;

- Sanguinary Guard decide to shoot or not before charging. Inferno pistols can potentially drop a terminator or two. Priest may also carry a plasma pistol or something. Then there's the bolters which will fire 2 shots each (terminators will save most of these if not all, every time).
- Terminators fire over-watch. Depends on load-out, but will mostly be storm bolters which a 2+ 5+ should be okay with.
- Challenge. Here's where it get's slightly technical. No upgrade on Priest = no challenge, and refuse challenge. His 4/5 attacks with a chainsword wont do much. Keep him out of it to keep him alive and give the squad +1 weapon skill. If you have the points, upgrade him with an AP 2 weapon like valour's edge and issue a challenge. His 4/5 attacks at WS5 S5 I4/5 should be enough to kill the sergeant.
- Sanguinary Guard attacks. Now, if you use the Baal Strike Force detachment, you should get I5 on the charge (big bonus for the priest in a challenge), if not, you may or may not fight at the same time as the terminator sergeant. He can only cause a maximum of 2 casualties (I think). Your Guard will have all of their sword attacks still at WS5 S5 hitting and wounding on 3's. With 4 attacks each and one missed re-roll for master-crafted per model, you should get a fair amount of hits and wounds. Despite the terminators being able to make their 2+ armour saves, the amount of dice meant they failed 2/3 on average.
- Initiative 1. Here, the axes and power fist will fight what's left. The guard with axes will be WS5 S6 AP2, and the power fist will be WS5 S10 AP2, all with 4 attacks each and the axes re-rolling one miss each. On a good roll, 12 dice hitting on 3's and wounding on 2's will finish what's left of the terminators, especially as they will only be able to take their 5+ invulnerable save. Because they're fighting at the same time, there is a chance the guard will take casualties, but the terminators will be hitting on 4's with only a few attacks.

Each time I played this out, I wiped the terminator squad. I started off without firing into them first, and it worked out okay, but it might work out good to drop a couple before you charge in just in case the dice go against you in the assault, and if there is a chance to kill the sergeant before you move in. Now, there are a lot of variables with this. Dice rolls being the main factor because either side can have good and bad rolls. I managed to get through each time without losing a model, but I would highly expect to lose around 4-5 in this kind of move. Upgrades on the Priest will also play a part, as will the formation. I5 on the charge is a huge boost for challenges and the squad in general. Against normal terminators it's not as big of a deal, but if you were ballsy enough to take on assault terminators (or another assault based unit), then it would be vital.

Anyway, that's my 'play test' experience with a 10-man squad so far. I might try it out with a 5-man squad to see what happens, but I won't be expecting much.

I think what I wrote out in the 'play through' is correct in how things would be played, but please let me know if I've made a mistake in my enthusiastic haste!