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I wanted a new army with either termies or magic and i thought hey, choose grey knights and get both! So, here is an attempt at a list, all feedback welcome,

- Grey Knights Nemesis Strike Force -

HQ
- Librarian w/ mastery lvl 3, warding stave, storm bolter, 140

Elites
- 4x paladins w/ 1x halberd, 1x hammer, 2x dual falchions, 240

- 5x Purifiers w/ incinerator, 2x swords, 2x dual falchions, rhino w/ dozer blades, 178

- 5x Purifiers w/ incinerator, 2x swords, 2x dual falchions, rhino, w/ dozer blades, 178

Troops
-5x terminators w/ 1x hammer, 4x halberds, psycannon, 203

Heavy Support
- Dreadknight w/ sword, heavy psycannon, personal teleporter, 205

- Dreadknight w/ sword, heavy psycannon, personal teleporter, 205

-Assassinorum operative-

- Vindicare Assassin 150

--- 1499---

Only one troop choice? I would drop the paladins and replace with termies.

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Only one troop choice? I would drop the paladins and replace with termies.

What? Why? Paladins are terminators with 2 wounds. He'd save like no points that could be meaningfully applied elsewhere.

Is there a reason why you didn't want to run Kaldor Draigo? (He's like, the best miniature ever)

Your purifiers can take TWO incinerators per 5, not just one you also don't have heavy incinerators on the ndk and those have torrent. I would drop the vindicare to pick up all those incinerators as they still out value the potential damage the vindicare would do. Should have enough points after that to maybe take an extra wargear. At 1850 I would consider the assassin but right now you are ditching some really good stuff to take him and culexus would fit better with deep striking anyway.

The point of the nemesis formation is that it only needs one troops choice leaving room to spend more on elite or whatever,

The reason i didn't run Draigo is because he's the same cost (ish) as a landraider and would take up too big a chunk of points at 1500,

I only included the Vindicare because i bought the model ages ago and thought he might be helpful but what you say abut the incinerators and stuff makes sense so i will drop him for the moment,

With that in mind here is a revision of the list:

- Grey Knights Nemesis Strike Force -

HQ
- Librarian w/ mastery lvl 3, the soul glaive, 155

Elites
- 5x paladins w/ 1x halberd, 1x hammer, 2x dual falchions, 1x sword, psycannon, apothecary, 335

- 5x Purifiers w/ 2x incinerator, 1x swords, 2x dual falchions, rhino, 178

- 5x Purifiers w/ 2x incinerator, 1x swords, 2x dual falchions, rhino, 178

Troops
-5x terminators w/ 1x hammer, 4x halberds, psycannon, 203

Heavy Support
- Dreadknight w/ sword, heavy psycannon, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter, 225

- Dreadknight w/ sword, heavy psycannon, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter, 225

---1499---

nice

(ignore this post, i wanted to see if i set my dakka geek code up correctly =) )

Looks good! You're ready to rock and roll as is.

I will say you can combo Draigo into this though. Drop the Pallies and put Draigo with 1 team of Purifiers. Grats; those Purifiers can now Gate of Infinity around the board and launch novas wherever they land. It's a fun combo.

It's also purely preferential and is not objectively 'better' than your current setup though.

I was playing my GK a lot last year with really really great success locally.

What I found is that purifiers don't work very well in rhinos they tend to become a liability which you do not want.

Either put them in a land raider and rush down field while distributing target priority with other tough units like dreadknights shunting. Or attach draigo to the unit for mobility and protection.

Keep in mind that if you start the unit in a transport, they can combat squad when disembarking, making it unnecessary to field 2 vehicles. Combat squading will double the amount of warp charges you generate as well as allow you to cast 2 instances of one of the best nova spells in the game (hint hint..you really want to cleanse flame twice instead of once)

Paladins are better off as terminators believe me. The good ol days of 5th ed are long gone. Field them as terminators and use the points more efficiently.

So far you have a decent friendly list ur only true strength in your list are the dreadknights and they aren't even at maxed effectiveness. If you aren't facing off against really competitive opponents you'll do fine and have a great game but if you want to push for effectiveness I strongly suggest the above changes.

Ok I would aim for slightly more competitive (nothing like beating your friends!) so would you suggest a 10 man purifier squad in a land raider and drop the paladins in exchange for just regular terminators?

If I did put the purifiers in a landraider I would have to sacrifice a dreadknight to stay in the confines of the nemesis strike force,

Also whilst on the subject of dreadknights you mentioned that they aren't that optimised, how would you equip them?

The purifiers can take a rhino or a razerback as a dedicated transport, so they don't take a slot on force chart. Or did you mean something else by the confines? The ndk were fine as you had them in above most recently. So I am not sure what this guy is talking about. If you had just one rhino he would have a point but if you have two it isn't as easy to pop them both. The only thing taking them as 1x10 instead of 2x5 does is force you to take one vehicle. If you dropped the paladins you could take strike team and run them in a rhino or razerback also. The issue with only having one transport vehicle is that it just draws fire from everything but if for example you had 2x5 purifiers and 1x5 strike squad and you put them all in razerbacks, you won't get them all destroyed one turn 1 like if you had a single lone rhino, which is something you should avoid with low model counts. Alternatively you could think about taking an ally but I didn't mention it before because you seemed to want to stick to GK.

Ah, when i said rhino i meant a land raider, sorry about that. I get what you're saying about the rhinos getting popped easily so having more but i think i actually prefer the land raider plan as a transport for the purifiers because it provides a land raider! But if i was to use that as a transport for the purifiers i wouldn't have enough heavy support slots for the two dreadknights within the confines of the nemesis.... So i had the idea of combining the nemesis strike force with a daemon hunter strike force (from the imperial agents book i think).

- Grey Knights Nemesis Strike Force -

HQ
- Librarian w/ mastery lvl 3, warding stave, Domina Liber Daemonica, 160

Elites
- 8x Purifiers w/ 2x incinerator, 2x swords, 3x dual falchions, 1 hammer, 232

Troops
-5x terminators w/ 1x hammer, 4x halberds, psycannon, 203

Heavy Support
- Dreadknight w/ heavy psycannon, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter, sword, 225

- Land Raider, 250


- Deamonhunter strike force -

Troops
-5x terminators w/ 1x hammer, 4x halberds, psycannon, 203

Heavy Support
- Dreadknight w/ heavy psycannon, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter, sword, 225

---1498---

This way i keep both dreadknights and have a land raider to ride in and the both formations benefit from the first turn deep strike on a 3+ rule thingy that is found in the nemesis. Personally i think this is my favourite form of the list so far but what do you think?

The only addition I'd make here is to drop one of the falchions off a Purifier and add the Greatswords back to both Dreadknights. You'll get a lot more mileage out of the Master-Crafted on the DK's than +1A on a single Purifier.

The other NDK in the other formation would not have reserve +3 bonus capability so you would either have to start him on the board or use his shunt very early.

Did you consider using a stormraven at all?

That would let you keep both the NDK's and give you enough points to use both the greatswords and get the DLD "Domina Liber Daemonic" on your librarian which I don't see here here "you should have it".

I don't think any Grey Knight formation gives Reserves +3 in standard 40k.

Or did you mean arrives on a 3+? That's how Deep Strikes work in 7th for any turn of Deep Strike prior to becoming automatic.

I was referring to rites of teleportation which is 3+ not +3 and they get to start rolling on the first turn rather than the 2nd.

Yeah, the Daemonhunter let's you do that too. You always arrive from Deep Strike on a 3+ base and Daemonhunter also allows for 1st turn Deep Striking. It's in C:IA.

Haha, yeah, your first post made me think we somehow were getting +3 to our reserve rolls. Got excited.

yeah +3 to reserves would be awesome! And the stromraven is a good shout but to be honest i've never owned a landraider before and would quite like to field one! (list has been added to include previous comments)

Ok let me clarify, when I responded I responded to the initial list you posted which had dreadknights missing the heavy incinerators thus they aren't optimal. you always want both heavy weapons on these bad boys.

Your idea of adding the daemonhunter strike force is brilliant and makes your list able to fit everything you need. Great job sir!

I would ignore the advice given to you about using several rhinos for your troops, those are SM tactics, doesn't work so well for GK. You don't want to try to do MSU with Grey Knights, you are better off bringing strong reliable hard hitting units as per your last list.

2 dreadknightsa and 1 land raider is enough to push target priority hard on the opponent. The purifiers can combat squad when disembarking from the raider, cast their cleasing flame twice instead of one time and then proceed to engage in assault.

Your list is brilliant. I would recommend you field the land raider redeemer or crusader for the higher capacity allowing you to put your warlord/hq in there with the purifiers for added carnage.

Infact if you roll Cleasing Flame as one of the librarians powers you can disembark him separately aswell and toss 3 cleasing flames!! just make sure to lock him into assault with something that will keep him safe in combat.

Thank you for the praise final questions, in order to combat squad a unit does it have to number 10 men because i only have the 8 purifiers... secondly which psychic powers are best for the libby, shall i put him all into sanctic or spread it out a bit?

yes you need a full 10 man unit to combat squad into 2 units of 5 when disembarking.

I always go iiiiin on Sanctic with my librarian. Sanctic is one of the best disciplines from the rulebook and with so many rolls you are likely to get the powers you need/want.

Cleasing Flame is def one of the highlights not just in sanctic but out of all Nova powers in the game, it's def a contender for the #1 spot. The best thing is that you keep the power until the last purifier is dead.

I had an epic battle vs a tyranid horde where I repeatedly smacked him with cleansing flame (you can cast it even while engaged in assault) while being vastly outnumbered until my last purifier died he had to take a lot of damage every psychic phase.

Whoa whoa, I like CF too, but you can't use it in assault. Novas are Witchfires and thus count as shooting attacks.

That said, I echo the recommendation. Short of making an invisible deathstar (which you aren't fielding), Sanctic has like every tool we need.

Unless Im reading it wrong Nova powers say something along the lines of "hits automatically against all enemy units within range regardless of line of sight,, being locked in combat, or in cover"

It's the only category of witchfires that ignores being locked in combat to my knowledge.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Only one troop choice? I would drop the paladins and replace with termies.

What? Why? Paladins are terminators with 2 wounds. He'd save like no points that could be meaningfully applied elsewhere.

Is there a reason why you didn't want to run Kaldor Draigo? (He's like, the best miniature ever)

1 to save points which can be applied else where, even if its just to add more termies to the group and also objective secured.

 Akaiyou wrote:
Unless Im reading it wrong Nova powers say something along the lines of "hits automatically against all enemy units within range regardless of line of sight,, being locked in combat, or in cover"

It's the only category of witchfires that ignores being locked in combat to my knowledge.

That is saying the Nova will still hit enemies who are locked in combat, not that you can cast it while locked, unfortunately.

Audustum wrote:

 Akaiyou wrote:
Unless Im reading it wrong Nova powers say something along the lines of "hits automatically against all enemy units within range regardless of line of sight,, being locked in combat, or in cover"

It's the only category of witchfires that ignores being locked in combat to my knowledge.

That is saying the Nova will still hit enemies who are locked in combat, not that you can cast it while locked, unfortunately.

Well that does make sense, I read it and so far other opponents that have read it haven't disputed that it seems like it worked regardless of being locked in combat. So at least I don't feel like a douche being that we all agreed.

I'll have to re-read it however, to confirm that it really isn't allowed even while locked in combat. Does the same apply to blessings? I don't have the rulebook infront of me at the moment but I believe blessings read similarly allowing them to be used even when locked in combat, thus casting hammerhand even when engaged and other unit buffs.

Blessings and Maledictions are cool to cast in combat, yeah. It's just Witchfires and their progeny who get locked up.

And don't sweat it. I made the same mistake originally too.