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I currently play Necrons and Nids. I love my nids. Necrons are ok. I love the fluff but the army is kind of bland and it's such a slog for anyone to fight them that I feel like games against them are just generally less fun. I am considering Tau.

I play very not power gamey, for fun lists, against people who are mostly relatively new to the game. (few years playing and such). I am actually mostly looking to avoid the Tau decurion and instead doing what I do with my nids, a Cad with a supplementary formation or some such.

Anyone familiar with Tau have any suggestions for stuff to get/ways to build a list that would make the game fun for me and my opponent? Very light on the cheese but still capable. Looking for any and all suggestions and feedback.

Thing about Tau is that it seems to be easy to stomp newer players with them. Or that's how I saw it when playing my first games against them. Keep it light on firepower and try to improve your list as your opponents start getting upper hand and learn how to deal with all your shooting.

Also, Tau CaD plus formations is probably stronger than their decurions.

Fire warriors and tanks are generally the more friendly approach compared to big battlesuits.

This thread should help:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/668091.page

Also the Start Collecting! set is really good value. Consider getting even two of those.

Thanks! So you think maybe a couple units of fire warriors, a unit or 2 of pathfinders. Some tanks and maybe a unit or 2 of suits would be more friendly and less cheesy? Just kind of keep the suits in check and don't go full shenanigans with them.

Yeah you're on the right track. Here's a list of units that aren't broken that you can build around based on your taste:

Any troops choice and Devilfish
Ghostkeels outside of formations
Stealthsuits outside of formations
R'Varna (worse of the Forgeworld Riptides)
Tanks
Pathfinders
Tetras
Piranhas
Crisis outside of formations
Special characters
Rail gun Broadsides
Sniper Drones

I didn't mention Vespid; they're not broken but they're terrible. And Breachers in fish do their job better.

Don't take riptide wing - don't take storm surges. Start there.

You will find with tau overwhelming firepower is how the army plays. What I do to keep the games more fun is I insert a few not so great options.

For example I always take a hammerhead with long strike upgrade. Very expensive for a single shot - but still adds some suspence to the game and every once and a while I blow up a tank with a single shot - thats fun.

Limit yourself to 2 riptides. Take rail rifles on your broadsides instead of missile pods. This kind of stuff will make the game more fun for your enemy.

I'm probably not the best person to be giving advice on how to calm down Tau lists since my friends and I all tend to play very competitively, but the rule of cool is always a good one to work with. If you think a Stormsurge is the most badass model you've ever seen, you run that beatstick, even though it'll probably eat a decent chunk of your opponents' forces. On the other hand, if you think Broadsides with rail rifles are the bee's knees, fire away. There are plenty of great models available to Tau that maintain the shoot 'em up mentality. Stealth suits, Kroot, Piranhas, and Barracudas are all underappreciated units with sweet models.

Edit: By the way, I think rail rifle Broadsides are one of the coolest models in the game. I wish they weren't completely outclassed by the HYMP. Otherwise, I'd run a gang of them all the time.

If you want people to have fun vs your tau, run a "Close to close combat" army build. Lots of Fusion, Flamers, Breachers, Stealth Suits, etc. People get frustrated playing vs tau because they just don't move and nuke you off the board, but it's actually not hard and decently solid when they're setup more as a marine-style shooting army (less durable, but more damaging than the marines.)

Farsight Commander with Fusion Blades and Iridium is a pretty good starting point.

So I don't have the codex yet. I am just kind of playing around with battlescribe to get a good idea of a list. Some questions:

Fire Warriors - I know pinning is mostly useless because almost everyone has some way to negate most moral based things. But with Taus weakness to melee I figure a few pinning shots is not the worst.

For for my Firewarrior Squads I figured I would do

6 with pulse rifles
3 with pulse carbines
1 Shas'ui with a pulse rifle and markerlight/target lock
2 Marker Drones

- Devilfish Dedicated transport with 2 seeker missiles.

Is that a good mix? Are any of the options I have selected a waste? Any options I did not select that I should be seriously looking at?

Pathfinders - Same general questions.

6 Pathfinders stock
1 Pathfinder Ion Rifle
2 Pathfinder Rail Rifle
1 Pathfinder Shas'ui with Carbine and Markerlight
2 Shield Drones

-Devilfish Dedicated Transport with 2 Seeker Missiles

I figure the shield drones will give them a little boost for surviveability since they will be providing my initial big chunks of Markerlights.

I figure I would bring 2 of each such units. clocking in at 1030 points giving me 4 lighter tanks and 40 infantry with 18 models providing markerlights and 8 Seeker Missiles to lay waste to any armor the other guns cannot deal with.

Thoughts?

Well, generally speaking, Pathfinders are one of the weaker units in the codex. They're best used as marker light sources since giving them special weapons is exceptionally expensive for the end result. I wouldn't bother with Shas'ui. He's extra points for very minimal gain.

You'd be best off keeping your Fire Warriors all with the same weapon so you don't wind up with some of your models unable to shoot. The Shas'ui won't really do you a lot of good since he can't provide marker support for his own unit. Naked is typically the best way to run your Fire Warriors.

Devilfish are kind of weird, clunky transports, but they get the job done. They're nice to have for Fire Warriors if you're running carbines or wanting to get into rapid fire range more easily. That said, you may consider using Breachers. If you're going to rush your troops up close, they might as well be unloading S6 AP3 shots, right? Seeker missiles are kind of meh when purchased as upgrades. In an army swimming in S7 weaponry, 8pts per S8 shot is quite pricy.

Again, though, if you think that stuff is super cool and want it in your army, go for it. I do think you'll find it less frustrating to play if you keep your units to one particular purpose, however.

Just to make sure I get this. I thought a big thing with Tau was passing around and "refreshing" markerlights.

So with fire warriors you do not want the Shas'ui to get the marker drones?

Same on the Pathfinders?

I was thinking of the Devilfish less as running my guys up close and more as a quick way to get them into cover/grab objectives or to act as cover themselves. Basically since they float, I could line up my Firewarriors/pathfinders behind them. I can draw LOS from under the skimmer and use a markerlight to ignore cover while anyone who shoots at me would have to target the tank or I would get cover for intervening models.

A unit can't use its own markerlights, so you typically want units to either provide markerlights, or use them.

Having FW as the infantry backbone of your army cuts down the cheese, but it doesn't necessarily make for a fun game. Because with their 30" range, they're at their best when they castle at the back.
Breachers in a devilfish make for more dynamic games, because you have to play them aggressively. And the devilfish being such a tax helps tone down the list.

fresus wrote:
A unit can't use its own markerlights, so you typically want units to either provide markerlights, or use them.

Having FW as the infantry backbone of your army cuts down the cheese, but it doesn't necessarily make for a fun game. Because with their 30" range, they're at their best when they castle at the back.
Breachers in a devilfish make for more dynamic games, because you have to play them aggressively. And the devilfish being such a tax helps tone down the list.

Right, I thought the pathfinders would provide the bulk of my markerlights. while the firewarriors refreshed 1 or 2 they used with the drones.

I mean, I hear what you guys are saying. Apparently it's not really viable/doesn't really work. Got it. Just wanted to make sure why it doesn't really work.

So would you say it's better to have 2 FW and 1 breacher with 1 Pathfinder? Or 1 FW 1 Breacher and 2 Pathfinder?

As a general rule, you want roughly 15% of your army to be marker support. That obviously can vary depending on what's in your list, but typically, much more than than that will be wasteful, while less might force you to use key units without marker lights. You also want to have dedicated marker light sources so you can organize your fire as much as possible. Shas'uis violate that rule and also happen to be exceptionally expensive for marker sources.

As for the Fire warrior distribution, Strikers are better at sitting back and camping objectives, while Breachers, as noted, require a much more aggressive strategy. Which you want just depends on you. I've had great luck with Breachers as a competitive, tournament-level unit, but they're merely okay if you don't design you list around them. Similarly, I doubt anyone would fault you for running a bunch of Strikers.

I'll echo the sentiment of others, Tau imho are lame to play against as a gunline, and can also be lame if you're so mobile that everything is JSJ -ing out of LOS every turn. However, if you have a strike squad or two in the back, some breachers in fish, some marker support and a couple toys, no one is gonna rage quit on you, and you'll have fun.

Play what you think is fun. If you stay away from the formations, you won't run into too much crazy nonsense with Tau. Maybe limit yourself to one storm surge also

Would the Shas'ui be good for breacher teams to get the shield drones? The have the amplifiers to get the good invul save and with how their range is much shorter I feel like they could really use the extra durability.

Correct?


Also, I was thinking of taking an ethereal and putting it with a FW strike team or a breacher team and then grabbing a commander with a group of 3 crisis suits and having them deepstrike in where ever the ethereal is at.

So 1) Good idea?
2) What are some good builds for a commander. They have a LOT of options.

Breachers in fish are great; you don't need many in a team. I routinely use just five and they are effective; but i usually run 3 teams with an ethereal giving them storm of fire. I would only purchase the ui and shields if it's a full unit of 10; but that's just me. I use my breachers as suicide squads and the fish itself as resilient obsec.

As for commanders:

Mark'O: Target Lock, Drone Controller, 2x Missile Pods, 2x Marker Drones + Fast attack purchased drones. He stays in the back w the BS5 markers, JSJ, and pops metal bawkses.

Fusion Blades: Iridium suit, stims, shields, fusion blades. I usually run this guy with a solo Crisis suit with fusion himself and a target lock because he can piggyback off of the commnder's T5.

Don't rule out the Forgeworld commanders. I've never used any of them but they seem fun and seem appropriate for a semi-competitive environment.

Ok... Here is a list at a couple of points values. Please let me know what could use some tweaks. I am unsure about some of the things here. It seems like a LOT of tanks to me. I will notate which units the HQs are joining when I get to the unit.


2000 points (clocking in at 1999)

HQ

Ethereal
-Shield Drones x2

Commander
-Command Control Node
-Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite
-Drone Controller
-Flamer (I know... not great. I have 6 points left so I gave him a gun)
--Marker Drone x2

Troops

Breacher Team (Joined by the Ethereal and his Drones)
-FW with Pulse Blaster x9
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Breacher Team
-FW with Pulse Blaster x5
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Breacher Team
-FW with Pulse Blaster x5
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Strike Team
-FW with Pulse Rifle x10
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team
-PF with Marker light/Carbine x 7
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Pathfinder Team
-PF with Marker light/Carbine x 7
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Elites

Crisis Battlesuits (Joined by the Commander)
-Crisis Shas'ui x 3
-Burst Cannon
-Burst Cannon
-Marker Drone x 6

Riptide
-Riptide x 1
-Velocity Tracker
-Ion Accelerator

Heavy Support

Hammerhead Gunships
-Hammerheads x 2
--Railgun
--Gun Drones
--Sensor Spines

-Hammerhead x1
--Longstrike
-Railgun
-TL Smart Missile System
-Sensor Spines

At 2k points that is 9 tanks, 6 are transports. 1 riptide that can skyfire. A crisis unit with a commander providing lots of Marker lights and a barrage of burst cannons, 2 pathfinder units, 1 FW strike team, 2 compact breacher teams and 1 large team with an ethereal and shield drones to keep the ethereal alive and buffing the front line troops.


1500 point version (Exactly 1500 points)


HQ

Ethereal
-Shield Drones x2

Commander
-Command Control Node
-Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite
-Drone Controller
-Flamer (I know... not great. I have 6 points left so I gave him a gun)
--Marker Drone x2

Troops

Breacher Team (Joined by the Ethereal and his Drones)
-FW with Pulse Blaster x9
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Breacher Team
-FW with Pulse Blaster x5
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Strike Team
-FW with Pulse Rifle x10
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team
-PF with Marker light/Carbine x 6
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Pathfinder Team
-PF with Marker light/Carbine x 6
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Elites

Crisis Battlesuits (Joined by the Commander)
-Crisis Shas'ui x 3
-Burst Cannon
-Burst Cannon
-Marker Drone x 5

Heavy Support

Hammerhead Gunships
-Hammerheads x 1
--Railgun
--Gun Drones
--Sensor Spines

-Hammerhead x1
--Longstrike
-Railgun
-TL Smart Missile System
-Sensor Spines

For this list I trimmed off 1 Hammer head, 1 small Breacher Team and transport, reduced the size of the Pathfinder units, dropped 1 marker drone from the crisis team, and the riptide.

1000 point version (Exactly 1500 points)


HQ

Ethereal
-Shield Drones x2

Commander
-Command Control Node
-Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite
-Drone Controller
-Burst Cannon
--Marker Drone x2

Troops

Breacher Team (Joined by the Ethereal and his Drones)
-FW with Pulse Blaster x9
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Breacher Team
-FW with Pulse Blaster x5
-Devilfish Dedicated Transport
--Gun Drones
--Burst Cannon
--Sensor Spines

Strike Team
-FW with Pulse Rifle x10

Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team
-PF with Marker light/Carbine x 5

Pathfinder Team
-PF with Marker light/Carbine x 5

Elites

Crisis Battlesuits (Joined by the Commander)
-Crisis Shas'ui x 2
-Burst Cannon
-Burst Cannon
-Marker Drone x 4

Heavy Support

Hammerhead Gunships
-Hammerheads x 1
--Railgun
--Gun Drones
--Sensor Spines

I lost 3 Devilfish, 1 Hammerhead, A single Crisis suit (and reduced the drones accordingly), dropped the pathfinders down to 5 models per.


These and occasionally 1250 are the point levels I tend to play at. Does this seem like something fun to play against?

I see no Riptides or Stormsurge. Looks good!

The 2k list has a single Riptide.

Single Riptide at 2K is fine.

I like the first list you posted, personally. With the massive amount of S5 AP5 Tau can put out, burst cannons on Crisis Suits are pretty mediocre, in my book. If it's close range rate of fire you want, the cyclic ion blasters are tough to top. Otherwise, fusions are always a solid choice. Maybe ditch some sensor spines to make room. You should also consider putting target locks on the suits so they don't have to shoot the same thing as your Marker Drones (which look like they'll be your primary source of lights.

I try to play with a lot of ruined buildings/some craters/a dangerous terrain or 2. Basically a lot of terrain. I want the vehicles to be able to survive it. I will fiddle with a few options to see if can switch up to better guns on the crisis suits and get them target locks. Thanks for the input!

I feel like this is playing Tau as a armored IG list lol.

The dual burst cannon was just getting as many shots as possible at the lowest cost. But I did wish I had more higher str.

What if the crisis suits exchanged one burst canon for a missile pod? That gets some extra range. I would loose 6 shots but 6 of them would become str 7.

You need more dedicated anti-tank and pathfinders should never have devilfish

 The Shrike wrote:
You need more dedicated anti-tank and pathfinders should never have devilfish

Why should pathfinders not have devilfish? I thought it would be a good way to move them into key terrain positions/bring a tank. Not criticizing. Actually curious for the reason.

 Lance845 wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
You need more dedicated anti-tank and pathfinders should never have devilfish

Why should pathfinders not have devilfish? I thought it would be a good one to move them into key terrain positions/bring a tank.

A) Vehicles suck B) Devilfish are overcosted vehicles. C) Consequently, devilfish double suck.

 Lance845 wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
You need more dedicated anti-tank and pathfinders should never have devilfish

Why should pathfinders not have devilfish? I thought it would be a good way to move them into key terrain positions/bring a tank. Not criticizing. Actually curious for the reason.

Mostly its because every turn you've got the Pathfinders in a Devilfish is a turn when they aren't providing sweet, sweet Markerlights.

Ideally, your Pathfinders are set up somewhere to take advantage of their Markerlights every turn. Even if you aren't, you're better off with another squad of Pathfinders over taking a Devilfish, since those two squads of Pathfinders means you're less likely to have your Pathfinders wiped immediately, and you can place them in separate places to provide Markerlights to different areas of the board. Edit: and, of course, you get double the Markerlights, and you're more likely to have Markerlights available later in the game.

And yes, Devilfish are expensive for what they do. If they aren't absolutely necessary to succeed in delivering (Breachers being slow, fairly delicate, and extremely short-ranged) or for providing defensive cover & accuracy boosts (Breachers or Fire Warriors, especially in the Kauyon decurion that boosts BS by 1 if you focus the fire of 3 units - in this case, that'd be the devilfish, its detached gun drones, and the squad of Breachers or Fire Warriors you just delivered)... well, they really aren't worth taking.

Good to know. That frees up some points than. I do want another good source of high str anti armor besides the hammerheads.

Any suggestions? I was thinking maybe a couple broadsides but i am not sure... Any suggestions help.

A couple of Dual-Fusion Monats (i.e. Crisis Suits that go solo) for Deepstriking can be worthwhile for cracking the heaviest of armor.

A dual-CIB Monat with a bit of ML support can also do great glancing targets down on its own.

Hammerheads are... unreliable.

Broadsides with HRR are outclassed by HYMP.

Broadsides with HYMP and SMS are excellent against just about all infantry as well as for light/medium tank-cracking.

The Optimized Stealth Cadre can also cover that extremely well, between S5, 7, or 8 (BC for the 'keel and XV25s, Ion for the 'keel, and fusion for the 'keel and upgrades XV25s, respectively), hitting the back armor facing (so against all but the toughest all-around armors, even your XV25s can contribute), +1 BS (so at least BS4, often BS5 with the right decurion or even a single ML), and Ignores Cover.