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I've got a list I'm tinkering with that's got 18 HDs, 6Ds, and a variety of other toys, particularly among them Tomb Stalkers. All the normal Ds and 6 of the Heavy Ds come from the formation, so a lot of rerolls going on there.
Anyway, just taking those Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers on there own, they run about 1140. Math hammering them out against 5 Hive Tyrants yield some impressive results. You do about 4.5 wounds per turn against them, and they do about 6 wounds per turn against you. Of course that's assuming everyone is happily in range and LOS, two things that will tend to favor the Destroyers. So you can cut down about 1/5th of their starting wounds per turn, and they in return can take down about 1/8th of your starting wounds.
It's a matchup that largely favors the Destroyers, in short. And they are coming in at a substantial discount, too.
1 unit of 10 tomb blades can kill a wave serpent a turn when rapid firing. Just a heads up.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Tomb King wrote: 1 unit of 10 tomb blades can kill a wave serpent a turn when rapid firing. Just a heads up.
Indeed. And in return, a full blast from a standing wave serpent, Shuriken Cannon and all, kills about 1.3 Shield Vane tomb blades. Pretty good trade, there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just threw this in Army List ::
Tomb King wrote: 1 unit of 10 tomb blades can kill a wave serpent a turn when rapid firing. Just a heads up.
Indeed. And in return, a full blast from a standing wave serpent, Shuriken Cannon and all, kills about 1.3 Shield Vane tomb blades. Pretty good trade, there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just threw this in Army List ::
155 Dlord + Solar Staff + Rez Orb ( Goes with Flayed Ones)
130 2 x Destroyers 1 x Heave Destroyer
130 2 x D + 1 x HD
130 2 x D + 1 x HD
150 3 x HD
Total for Destroyer Cult 695
CAD
HS 90 Cryptek + Chrono ( Goes with Flayed Ones)
Elite
250 2 x Triarch Stalker
195 15 x Flayed Ones
Troops
85 5 x Gauss Immortals
85 5 X Gauss Immortals
FA 150 3 x 1 x HD
HS 450 3 x 3 x HD
Total for CAD 1305
2000 on the nose.
I really think that list would absolutely roll. Has a pretty solid answer for anything in the current meta.
A very low model count for that big of a game. In addition, you have nothing that ignores cover which is something most list need these days. Your only assaulty element is 15 flayed ones. YMMV but I would not fear this list in the slightest. Not sure why people are so caught up on the destroyer and wraith trains. They haven't changed that much for the better. IMO i actually think destroyers got worse thanks to being slower now. The best unit in this dex is Tomb Blades... Not sure why people cant see that.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
A very low model count for that big of a game. In addition, you have nothing that ignores cover which is something most list need these days. Your only assaulty element is 15 flayed ones. YMMV but I would not fear this list in the slightest. Not sure why people are so caught up on the destroyer and wraith trains. They haven't changed that much for the better. IMO i actually think destroyers got worse thanks to being slower now. The best unit in this dex is Tomb Blades... Not sure why people cant see that.
Only assault element is probably the best assault unit in the game, point for point, right now?
What list are you referring to that wouldn't fear this list in the slightest? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, because I honestly would like to know.
Ignores cover is nice, when you need it. This list drops two wave serpents a turn, easily. It doesn't need ignores cover. Flayed Ones will annihilate any troops that huddle up in cover.
I honestly would love for people to show me lists that could give this one fits. I compare it to some of the tournament winners and top table finishers over the last few months and I'm pretty certain it would crush most of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: to say, 5 Demon FMCs, that's one list that could get a bit problematic. The Flayed Ones could make any one that lands suffer, but their ++ goes a long way against AP 2.
5 Hive Tyrants wouldn't be much of a problem, though, I don't think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 10:37:26
MiniWargaming posted a new Youtube video talking about the 7E Necron Troops and Transports.
I think Matt may be over estimating the difficulty of killing Necron Warriors, but the video is still something good Necron related to listen to while assembling all your new Lychguard and Tomb Blades.
Unrelated, Tomb Blades are sold out on the GW US online store. Making them a mandatory portion of the Decurion has proven to be a great marketing move.
Edit:
Realised that was part of a series
Episode 3 is on HQs
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 16:22:00
A very low model count for that big of a game. In addition, you have nothing that ignores cover which is something most list need these days. Your only assaulty element is 15 flayed ones. YMMV but I would not fear this list in the slightest. Not sure why people are so caught up on the destroyer and wraith trains. They haven't changed that much for the better. IMO i actually think destroyers got worse thanks to being slower now. The best unit in this dex is Tomb Blades... Not sure why people cant see that.
Only assault element is probably the best assault unit in the game, point for point, right now?
What list are you referring to that wouldn't fear this list in the slightest? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, because I honestly would like to know.
Ignores cover is nice, when you need it. This list drops two wave serpents a turn, easily. It doesn't need ignores cover. Flayed Ones will annihilate any troops that huddle up in cover.
I honestly would love for people to show me lists that could give this one fits. I compare it to some of the tournament winners and top table finishers over the last few months and I'm pretty certain it would crush most of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: to say, 5 Demon FMCs, that's one list that could get a bit problematic. The Flayed Ones could make any one that lands suffer, but their ++ goes a long way against AP 2.
5 Hive Tyrants wouldn't be much of a problem, though, I don't think.
I like your list, I like the idea of the D cult and am working on something similar in a 2k point list, but has less assault elements than yours.
Destroyer cult
D lord 110pts
3x 3destroyers 360pts
total= 1999pts
It can be brought down to 1850 by reducing Immortals by 2, dropping 1 tb from each squad, and 3 warriors from each squad. Gives 7 points to spare.
I'm thinking dropping an immortal and giving the D.Lord solar staff would be very useful, since the army is mostly optimal range 24"
Almost everything has relentless, so they can move and fire and the increased RP. Two decent units of tomb blades with ignores cover, the stalkers have a good chance of slagging anything that is not in cover/jinking with a total of 4 heatray shots with rerolls to hit and ap. Praetorians hang out around the warriors and immortals and play necro-police anycase any agitators try to get close. Destroyers with BS 5 if near stalkers and PE, and the reroll to wound/ap should put out a significant number of wounds/glances. Essentially they hit on 2+, if they miss (rolled a 1) they get PE and reroll, so your looking at usually getting all hits all the time. Str 5 Ap3 is MEQ bane, and with reroll to wound/pen has a decent chance of hurting things. Against toughness 7+ should still put out 2 wounds per 3 man squad, or 2 glances on anything av 11+. This is of course before inv saves and cover. The warrior/immortal blocks are large because they get the 4+ RP from the decurion, and if within 12" of the CCB they are getting rerolls to morale, fear, and pinning tests as well as getting to reroll Rp rolls of 1 from the enhanced reanimation protocols from the reclamation formation.
Basically it would play like a large semi spread out phalanx of mixed models with the faster elements moving to cover things.
If I was going to take this up to 2500 that would be fun, would add 2 ghost arks for the warrior blocks, flesh out the destroyers with 1 model each and add a some heavy destroyers. Or add 2 monoliths and 2 heavy destroyers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/06 17:15:31
Honestly, I've never used one but it being cheaper and less of a lynchpin to build a strategy around and more a nice passive buff is making me take another look.
So... The flamer is nice for overwatch, particularly given that the Stalker looks to suck more than it has any right to in combat... (How do gigantic S7 claws have no AP? It's a giant Spyder!), though Melta probably isn't ever going to come into play on a 6 inch move model with no extra options.
Gauss... One shot, no blast on a model this pricey? Nah, I have other platforms for that.
And as for Particle Shredder, I already have Tomb Blades and Spyders on that avenue, though it could work if against the right saves.
Leaning default, I guess. Seems the most flexible.
In terms of using Necrons outside of the Decurion, I'm wondering about a MSU army. Since small units are no longer penalised by RP, I'm thinking along the lines of a lot of 5-man squads. 4-6 5-man immortal squads as troops, 2 squads of 5 Preatorians, 2 squads of 5 deathmarks, maybe some destroyers, that sort of thing.
Does that sound reasonable?
Also, any idea what to use for my HQ in that sort of army (and where to put him)?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
vipoid wrote: In terms of using Necrons outside of the Decurion, I'm wondering about a MSU army. Since small units are no longer penalised by RP, I'm thinking along the lines of a lot of 5-man squads. 4-6 5-man immortal squads as troops, 2 squads of 5 Preatorians, 2 squads of 5 deathmarks, maybe some destroyers, that sort of thing.
Does that sound reasonable?
Also, any idea what to use for my HQ in that sort of army (and where to put him)?
I'd still want large blobs to put the HQs (like Crypteks) in because of their buffs to the entire unit. Otherwise, a MSU army would be annoying but I don't think it'll be very lethal.
vipoid wrote: In terms of using Necrons outside of the Decurion, I'm wondering about a MSU army. Since small units are no longer penalised by RP, I'm thinking along the lines of a lot of 5-man squads. 4-6 5-man immortal squads as troops, 2 squads of 5 Preatorians, 2 squads of 5 deathmarks, maybe some destroyers, that sort of thing.
Does that sound reasonable?
Also, any idea what to use for my HQ in that sort of army (and where to put him)?
I've been thinking about this myself. MSU is the new hotness, and with the loss of Scythe and Barge spam, I was thinking about how to make Cron MSU work.
The best solution I have so far is destroyers. 6D6H Cult is probably the best setup for them, that's 4 3-man squads, 6 lascannons overall, and all very mobile and resilient on top of their shooting. Anyone that wants to kill them has to go through 6W/T5/3+/RP per squad, which is fairly hardy for a 130/150 point unit imo.
Praetorian 5 man squads with Rods aren't bad. If taken in the Judicator battalion, not only do they have the Formation Targeting thingy, but they also get Move Through Cover, so they can hug cover against AP3 weaponry. They're much less durable than Destroyers or Wraiths, but they're quick and have five AP2 guns per squad, rerolling everything if the Stalker is still alive. That's not a bad unit overall, but they'll die to focus fire much easier than Wraiths.
Lychguard are high on my list of units to try. Slow on the field, but pop them in a Night Scythe with HQ support (as I keep soapboxing, Orikan is GREAT with Shieldguard), and then drop them in the enemy gunline. Panic will ensue, and they'll chop everything except Terminators into paste (and will even kill them if you have Orikan/Warscythes in there).
I haven't gotten my Tomb Blades out, but I think they could do it. 3 are not very tough (1W/T5/3+/RP/Jink), but 3 squads of 3 could be better than 1 squad of 9 in some situations. Like if you want to give some Gauss and some Tesla and allow them to shoot at different targets, or to make it so they don't all have to jink at once. Still, just have to make sure they don't give up first blood.
Not much else wants to be in MSU small squads, except maybe Immortals in a Scythe. Warriors and Flayed Ones want to be in big blobs. Wraiths rarely want to be below 5.
Tomb Blades murdered the Kroot, but I was unable to do anything against the Riptides aside of being locked against them in CC. At the end I won because objectives.
Tomb Blades murdered the Kroot, but I was unable to do anything against the Riptides aside of being locked against them in CC. At the end I won because objectives.
Oh, and the Stalker was nuked in the first turn.
That does not surprise me in the least. It seems that everyone in my FLGShates my Stalker, I rarely have it live past Turn 3. I mean, I get that it buffs my Troops, but people just hate the thing with a passion.
vipoid wrote: In terms of using Necrons outside of the Decurion, I'm wondering about a MSU army. Since small units are no longer penalised by RP, I'm thinking along the lines of a lot of 5-man squads. 4-6 5-man immortal squads as troops, 2 squads of 5 Preatorians, 2 squads of 5 deathmarks, maybe some destroyers, that sort of thing.
Does that sound reasonable?
Also, any idea what to use for my HQ in that sort of army (and where to put him)?
with the loss of Scythe and Barge spam
Does +30 points each really constitute the end of NS and AB of spamability? +90 points for 3 ABs in a 1500/1850/2000pt game? 130 points for NSs, embark a squad for 85pts, ends up being 5 more points than an Eldar DA squad in an WS with scatter/holofied.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 23:12:58
Well, at the very least, I still plan to try my Annihilation Barges.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Byte wrote: Does +30 points each really constitute the end of NS and AB of spamability? +90 points for 3 ABs in a 1500/1850/2000pt game? 130 points for NSs, embark a squad for 85pts, ends up being 5 more points than an Eldar DA squad in an WS with scatter/holofied.
Yes, since Barges are 30 points more and Night Scythe are 50 points more.
What people forgot with NS's is that Warriors got a minimum of 10, so you would take Immortals for the spam and that brings the total to 50 more points than before.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
vipoid wrote: Well, at the very least, I still plan to try my Annihilation Barges.
Nothing wrong with that, I just don't think you want to spam as much as possible in the new Codex A Doomsday Ark is only 40 points more and can really ruin the opponents' day.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 23:23:23
A Doomsday Ark is only 40 points more and can really ruin the opponents' day.
The other aspect is that our infantry are a lot more interesting now.
I could easily see myself taking a list with no vehicles at all.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
The entire point of the formation is just on your first turn Teleport the Wraiths who have Reanimation Protocols, into your opponents Deployment zone 12inches away from him.
Then advance with the 2nd unit of Wraiths.
When you get shot at Pop Res Orb to reroll your 3+ 5+. Or just tank it with a 4+, 5+ 5+ on the Destroyer lord.
It also works with the Decurion formation
1 Overlord w/ Warscythe , Res Orb, Veil of Darkness, Phase Shifter
Tomb Blades murdered the Kroot, but I was unable to do anything against the Riptides aside of being locked against them in CC. At the end I won because objectives.
Oh, and the Stalker was nuked in the first turn.
Out of curiosity, what killed the Stalker and how much fire did it take to do that?
Also, what did you list look like?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: Yeah so this kind of popped into my head and I want to try it now. I call it Wraith bomb
Destroyer Lord w/ Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Veil of Darkness
The entire point of the formation is just on your first turn Teleport the Wraiths who have Reanimation Protocols, into your opponents Deployment zone 12inches away from him.
Then advance with the 2nd unit of Wraiths.
When you get shot at Pop Res Orb to reroll your 3+ 5+. Or just tank it with a 4+, 5+ 5+ on the Destroyer lord.
I like it! Seems fun an evil lol.
What do you think about trying out a solar staff on the destroyer lord to force snap firing on the wraith group? Just in case the opponent tries to knock out your Spyder first to deny the wraiths RP
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 23:43:50
You can't have both unfortunately on your D. Lord , it's Veil or nothing however you can just Purchase a Cryptek with it and teleport him with them or if you go first attach him to the Wraith Squad thats not Teleporting , activate the Staff them run them up the table.
Good Luck killing one unit that get's invisibility for a turn and moves 12" plus Fleet, and another that is a 3+, 5+ 5+.
You'll lose the RP after the 2nd Turn but you should have pretty much charged your opponents army by then with one of the groups of Wraiths then you can get the Spyder near them again.
You can also just
Overlord w/ Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Warscyth, Veil of Darkness
Cryptek w/ Sun Staff
or
D. Lord same set up
Cryptek Sun Staff
The Wraiths then get 4+ RP with the Cryptek attached and get to Reroll it if your feeling Frisky with the Res Orb from the D. Lord , basically don't shoot or charge that unit.
Or you can put them all together with the other wraiths, the ones without ressurection protocol and teleport that group instead.
Also you can do this...
If you go first .Start the Cryptek with the Staff of Light with the Wraiths that do not have R Protocol, Activate it on your first turn.
Teleport with the Wraiths that have R Protocol and the Warlord with the Rez orb
So the list could just be
Destroyer Lord w/ Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Warscythe, Veil of Darkness
Cryptek with Solar Staff
That's pretty much 1850 actually a little bit less but then you still got the combo. So you could teleport all of that the Cryptek and the Wraiths with the Solar Staff.
Also, the Cryptek can just activate the Solar Staff if your opponent tries to shoot the Wraiths w/ D-Lord on the first turn if he goes first and he's attached to them.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/02/07 00:01:19
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
I'm building my Tomb Blades and want to put Tesla Carbines and Nebulascopes on them for the sole reason that this is the coolest-looking variant.
But the scopes and the tesla don't seem to go together at all. :( Am I missing something? Because they have no AP most things will have an armor save anyway.
Hollismason wrote: Yeah the Gauss and Beamers are honestly better than the Carbine.
FUN FACT!!
How much would you think that 10 Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vanes, and Nebuloscopes cost?
210 Yes?
Well You'd be WRONG!!
That's right here's one easy way to save points and frustrate your opponents.
Equip only more than half of the squad with shield vanes!!
10 Tomb Blades w/ 6 that have shield vanes saves 8 points because the majority armour save is 3+.
Saves aren't done like Toughness... saves are made on a model-per-model basis. those 4 models will only have 4+ saves regardless of what the other 6 have.
Excuse me if this has been touched on anywhere, but how are you guys loading out your overlords? I'm taking the reclamation legion and two Canoptek harvests in my list so far, but haven't decided on if I should go with CCB and WS or not. What else are you guys adding to them in that mode as well as if you were going to footslog them?
Tomb Blades murdered the Kroot, but I was unable to do anything against the Riptides aside of being locked against them in CC. At the end I won because objectives.
Oh, and the Stalker was nuked in the first turn.
Out of curiosity, what killed the Stalker and how much fire did it take to do that?
Also, what did you list look like?
2 Crisis suits with missiles with a buffmander.
My list was a Decurion detachement with 3 full units of Tomb Blades and a Judicator Battalion.
I'm ambivalent about the Barge right now. I feel like if your gonna take one you should make him a boss. If not barebones , pretty much nothing, come at me brah. How I've tried him out...
6000+
2000
BANZAI! BANZAI! BANZAI! 
1000
500