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On the Ynnari warlord traits, number 4 gives the warlord's attacks, on a roll of a 6 the instant death rule.

I am unsure whether this just applies to close combat attacks or to both shooting and close combat.

If it was only to apply to close combat I would have thought GW would have specified this in the wording of the to the effect that "The Warlords close combat attacks on a roll of a 6 have ID rule".

That said, It wouldn't be the first time however that the intent behind a rule was not as clearly worded as it could have been.

Any input would be appreciated.

The wording does not give it too the weapon and only the model. Therefore it would be just melee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are certain warlord traits across the game that state weapons gain certain abilities.

 rawne2510 wrote:
The wording does not give it too the weapon and only the model. Therefore it would be just melee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are certain warlord traits across the game that state weapons gain certain abilities.

Models make close combat attacks with weapons just as they make shooting attacks with weapons.

The Warlord Trait simply states attacks; necessarily it must apply to all of its attacks, both shooting and close combat.

If it was to effects ranged attacks I would expect it to state ranged attacks. Attacks in my opinion would mean only melee.

 rawne2510 wrote:
If it was to effects ranged attacks I would expect it to state ranged attacks. Attacks in my opinion would mean only melee.

So when, for example, 'Nominate a Unit to Shoot' in the Shooting phase rules says, "During the Shooting phase, a unit containing models armed with ranged weapons can be nominated to make shooting attacks" these are somehow not the models' attacks?

The are the models shooting attacks with the ranged weapons they have.

Or are you implying that a model gets 1 extra attack from a warlord trait can fire more times than the weapon has?

 rawne2510 wrote:
If it was to effects ranged attacks I would expect it to state ranged attacks. Attacks in my opinion would mean only melee.

Of course, if it were to affect only close combat attacks you should expect it to state close combat attacks. Since it says attacks without specifying which it would cover both.

 doctortom wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
If it was to effects ranged attacks I would expect it to state ranged attacks. Attacks in my opinion would mean only melee.

Of course, if it were to affect only close combat attacks you should expect it to state close combat attacks. Since it says attacks without specifying which it would cover both.

See Prescience vs Guide. Guides specifies re-rolls for 'to-hit' rolls in the shooting phase, whereas Prescience allows re-rolls for "to-hit" rolls in general, meaning Prescience works for shooting and melee.

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I'm also inclined to think it's both shooting and close combat.

The avatar of khaine is unaffected by 'attacks' that have the melta, flamer and soulburst special rules. I think the first two are shooting only, but they are still attacks.

 rawne2510 wrote:
The are the models shooting attacks with the ranged weapons they have.

Or are you implying that a model gets 1 extra attack from a warlord trait can fire more times than the weapon has?

The Warlord Trait doesn't care if it's made with a ranged weapon, or if it's in close combat with a weapon with the Melee special rule. If the Warlord Trait doesn't limit it, why are you trying to?

A model's shooting attacks are its attacks just as much as its attacks made in close combat. The Warlord Trait applies to both.

It would also apply to psychic attacks.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
The are the models shooting attacks with the ranged weapons they have.

Or are you implying that a model gets 1 extra attack from a warlord trait can fire more times than the weapon has?

The Warlord Trait doesn't care if it's made with a ranged weapon, or if it's in close combat with a weapon with the Melee special rule. If the Warlord Trait doesn't limit it, why are you trying to?

A model's shooting attacks are its attacks just as much as its attacks made in close combat. The Warlord Trait applies to both.

Some other rules *fleshbane and Armorbane* state that a model with such special rule counts for melee, while for shooting the special rule must be in the weapon profile to work.

Also worth to notice the BRB uses shooting for ranged attacks in the *shooting phase* and only use the word attacks for the ones resolved in the *Assault phase*.

Well, if model gains Poisoned special rule (and Fleshbane, Armourbane, Rending, Shred) then it only applies to melee attacks, unless the ranged weapon itself gain Poisoned.

Instant death worded differently, but the question is if they are just lazy and all rules should follow Poison example, or it was deliberately worded in different way.

Blind is worded in another way too.

I'm not really sure what those rules have to do with this question. They have completely different (and more specific) wording.

This rule simply speaks of the model's attacks, and there is no suggestion in the wording of the rule that it should apply only to close combat attacks.

Lord Perversor wrote:
Also worth to notice the BRB uses shooting for ranged attacks in the *shooting phase* and only use the word attacks for the ones resolved in the *Assault phase*.

This is both untrue and irrelevant.

Untrue because many references in the Shooting phase section are made to simply "attacks" or "ranged attacks", just as in the Assault phase section we can find reference to "melee attacks". There are also many mentions in the Assault phase rules to "Attacks" as reference to the model's Attacks characteristic or number of Attacks.

Irrelevant because shooting attacks are just as much a model's attacks as its close combat attacks.

I really don´t think so because the trait is not giving the rule to the weapon profile which is quite important.

Wait I have a question -

In close combat you still attack with a weapon, and so wouldn't you need to specify 'the models attacks with his/her close combat weapon have ID on 6s' or whatever

Why is there a difference between shooting and melee weapons?

 rawne2510 wrote:
I really don´t think so because the trait is not giving the rule to the weapon profile which is quite important.

Why is that important? Because other, differently-worded rules are written that way?

That's like claiming Scout redeployments are bound by part of the Infiltrate rules, simply because they both let you deploy units outside of your deployment zone.

And indeed, as gummyofallbears points out, close combat attacks are also made with weapons.

Smash makes weapons AP2 but isn't part of the weapon profile, right? Seems like same principle though Smash explicitly limits itself to melee.