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1850 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster - 1850 - CAD Bursta 1

: Combined Arms Detachment (83#, 1850 pts)
1 Warboss, 95 pts (Power Klaw; Shoota; Warlord)
1 Da Finkin' Kap

10 Tankbustas, 130 pts

9 Boyz, 135 pts (Shoota)
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)
1 Trukk

9 Boyz, 135 pts (Shoota)
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)
1 Trukk

9 Boyz, 125 pts (Slugga)
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)
1 Trukk

9 Boyz, 95 pts (Slugga)
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)

9 Boyz, 95 pts (Slugga)
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)

9 Boyz, 95 pts (Slugga)
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)

4 Warbikers, 125 pts
1 Boss Nob (Power Klaw)

1 Battlewagon, 140 pts (Codex: Orks; Killkannon)
1 Battlewagon, 140 pts (Codex: Orks; Killkannon)
1 Battlewagon, 140 pts (Codex: Orks; Killkannon)

1 Kill Bursta (IA), 400 pts (Bursta Kannon)

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Some quick thoughts:

- You need bosspoles everywhere;

- You need rams everywhere;

- I don't know the killbursta, that's damn expensive! I guess you're putting your tankbustas in it? A nob with bosspole could be nice here. And squigs. Or are you putting your warboss with them? Or else 2x5 tankbustas in trukks;

- 5 bikers seems like not a lot in 1850;

- Drop the shootas and keep the sluggas (except for your PK nobz, they need shootas);

- You still have 2 FA slots, I'd put lone koptas;

- I'd drop the killkannons and give them 1 or 2 rokkits instead, you'll be transporting boyz, not shooting ordnance weapons. And even then, they are pretty damn expensive when trukks could do the "same". If you really want killkannons, go for 2 empty looted wagons with killkannons and one full 20-man battlewagon.

Thanks for your thoughts I guess I should've noted some tactical ideas I had in building the list. So here is a bit of a breakdown so maybe it makes more sense.

Kill bursta is AMAZING! I used it extensively in my previous loooooong term win streak with Orks. In very very few games it would wiff, for the most part the kill bursta held it down for me game after game. Tossing a 7" D blast is awesome specially for orks that have crappy BS skill.

Bosspoles don't help much. Unlike last codex where it mattered. the new mob rule just plain sucks and it's ridiculously stupid to the point that I feel that the best possible solution is to keep everything in vehicles. Vehicles grant fearless to the units inside thus > bosspole. Problem solved. All my units are on vehicles except for the warbikers, a bosspole wont help you much when you fail morale.

Rams are ok but not necessary. I wouldn't go as far as to say you ever "NEED" them, but it's a decent investment for what it does.

Shoota boyz are superior to slugga boyz, it's been that way for several editions now. The PK in the unit is to compelte the unit's all-round power, pumping 18 shots at 18" range is solid on a mobile platform with the possibility of disembarking,shooting and assaulting same turn putting a LOT of hurt on the enemy.

The killkannons I would agree normally I don't upgrade that. but this list came about on the idea that I wanted to run battlewagons with killkannons and wanted a list to push that idea forward so I surrounded them with strong supporting units that would allow for a 'camp in our heavy vehicles and shoot crammed with counter-assault units if anything approaches and push forward with other fast moving elements while blasting away at the enemy from range.

Essentially the strategy is to keep the kill bursta and battlewagons gunning the enemy down from range with blast templates to circumvent the poor BS of orks while the 3 trukks and warbikers keep the (in your face pressure).

If the opponent deep strikes/drop pods in to kill my heavy tanks he's going to have to eat a face full of power klaws and missile launchers from anything the tankbustas can reach.

Also yes the tankbustas go in the killburst with the Warboss attached.

Lone deffkoptas are very very solid but there's nothing on this list that I find expendable enough to drop for them.

Interesting thoughts. Let me continue the discussion:

- Good for the kill bursta;

- A bosspole ups your chances of passing Ld7 morale from 72.2% to 81.5% (+9.3 or +12.8%), assuming you have less than 10 models (so, almost always). In case of an exploding trukk, it ups your chances of passing both pinning and morale from 52.2% to 66.4% (+14.2 or +27.3%). Personally I think the 5 pts is worth it;

- A ram ups your chances of passing difficult/dangerous terrain tests from 83.3% to 97.2% (+13.9 or +16.7%). I guess it also depends on the "terrain meta". We use a lot of ruins providing valuable 4+ cover to obscured vehicles IN the ruins, so for me rams are mandatory. I've almost never rammed other vehicles but I guess it helps;

- IMO, shoota boyz were better last codex when they were the same cost as slugga boyz. Now I guess it depends on how you plan to use them. Why not put shoota boyz in the killkannon wagons (shooty stuff) and put slugga boyz in trukks (assaulty stuff)? If doing so I would drop the PKs on the shoota mobs and bring single koptas. IMO they will be more useful on the long run than a PK sitting in a shooty wagon. IMO, having free FA slots in a tournament list is a crime!

All the end of the day, it's a matter of taste!

Yeah the 11% increase of viability on bosspole and rams just don't seem all too appealing for me I suppose.

Specially the bosspole the only bosspoll worth it's salt is the one that grants fearless which is a must have in a green tide formation. The difference otherwise just isn't enough for me to spread 30 pts across the board I've tried it and feels like im just wasting points on tests that im sure to fail anyway. Vehicles and getting stuck in doing what orks do best seems to be the best way I mitigate the mob rule.

The killkannon is ordnance, passengers have to snap fire so I don't want shooty units in them. Last time I tried it I packed it full of lootas and was a sad panda when it was pointed out that passengers must snapfire.

I see you really really like deffkoptas I don't blame you I own 15 lol they are def awesome. I've been burned by drop pod assault too many times though not to have some counter-assault measure on my rear. I believe it necessary to have fully loaded units of boyz crammed into these battlewagons as a counter measure also for the ability to run the battlewagon to an objective and crush any unit holding it without worrying about lack of effectiveness.

Deffkoptas can win me games by being so mobile and getting to those hard to reach objectives and I'd take them if I didn't have killkannons all over the place

I've never played the Green Tide yet but I might next weekend. I won't be bringing the BBP as a warboss in a 10+ boyz mob has 97.2% of passing morale (before Ld modifiers), even without a BP. If he's stuck in close combat he auto-pass, but obviously he needs to crush a few heads. But it's also because of the points (I'm fielding the Green tide in a ~800 pts list for a 2v1)

Where does it says passengers must fire snapshots if the vehicle fired ordnance? I've looked everywhere (BRB and FAQ) and there's no such rule. Only things that make passengers shoot snapshots (using assault weapons) are cruising speed and vehicle damage tests. I think you've been cheated!

True that I haven't faced multiple drop pods, maybe by opinion would be different. PKs could be handy in that case.

Most of my advice would echo some of the things already said. I'm surprised at your dislike for bosspoles and rams, along with power klaws they are upgrades I'd never leave home without. It's not much of a percentage increase but the improved chance to pass morale and pinning tests for such a small number of points seems well worth it to me. Orks can ill afford to take more of their own stuff out the game, a sweeping advance or a failed pining test can really ruin your chances. The same goes for rams, if one of your vehicles gets stuck in your deployment zone it could lose you the game.

The points spent on killkannons are more wisely spent on Lobbas or Lootas which can also hold any backfield objectives, currently you'll have to sacrifice an expensive unit if you need to grab any objectives in your deployment zone. You've been misled about ordnance, it won't effect embarked units it only effects the other weapons on the vehicle. Next time ask them to point out the rule the says otherwise or just show them yourself that it doesn't exist.

The Finkin Kap is great but I'm not really sure which of those warlord traits you're really going to benefit from, move through cover (ruins) probably being the best of the bunch to offset your lack of rams. Without an MA Warboss this is still most likely the relic for you

I disagree that shoota boyz are superior to slugga boyz, the extra point isn't worth losing an attack for extra shots at range. Ork boyz sitting in a wagon all game shooting BS2 S4 AP- aren't worrying anyone, but 60 boyz with 4 S4 attacks each on the charge coming out of open-topped vehicles will make some people pause for thought. Any time a passenger's vehicle takes a penetrating hit the unit in side needs to take a leadership test (not a morale test, so Mob Rule doesn't interact) to see if it snap shoots next turn. This will halve the already poor damage output from your embarked shoota boyz, giving you even more cause to get out and assault and wish you had taken sluggas instead.

The kill bursta isn't a bad unit, I would quite like one myself, but i would be terrified of scattering onto my own battlewagons! You sound well practised with it though and it seems like it serves you well, but i would like to point out that if you spent 150 extra points you could take a kustom stompa with two bursta kannons - doubling your D, doubling your hull points (I think?), improving your transport capacity, increasing your AV and giving you S10 melee attacks as well as stomps. Worth a thought perhaps.

All in all I don't think you've got the most classically competitive list but you know your gaming group much better than us and it seems like you do very well with the lists you make. All I've got left to say is i wish you good luck and please let us know what list you end up taking and how the competition goes!

Interesting on the ordnance point. I was told that it was in the new FAQ. Which made sense to me given that everything else on the vehicle has to snap fire.

I'll have to take a look at this myself. In which case I would def move the shootas to the rear.

Green Tide is awesome won me many games even against knights. They can't handle all those PKs. Trust me take the fearless pole.

The finkin cap is great for rolling on the strategic table twice the reason I don't take rams aside from not having so much terrain that I constantly need to take terrain checks is that I could get Conqueror of Cities from strategic which helps me with 80% of the terrain I regularly play.

Also giving 3 units infiltrate is useful on those units of boyz in trukks.

Actually I find most things in strategic to be useful.

I still hold that shootas > sluggas. In my experience the damage output is greater and much needed. slugga boys for the most part are a 1 trick pony and 1 extra attack in combat with furious charge adds up to the same amount of damage as if you shot then assaulted with shootas, except shootas can get shots in on the way in before setting up to assault thus you do more damage exponentially.

I wish...I had...a stompa. Gork and Mork have not blessed me with one yet. :(

I'd totally take one. The killbursta does great work though but it would be fun to bring a big mighty stompa not to mention the fun tinkering and kustomizations to make it proper Orky.

For the record this list approach is totally diff to what I was running previously when my dice were hot and the Orks were rolling over all competition. I played huge mobs of orks (green tide often) and other units to support.

I'm not saying this list is infallible, I value the comments, I'd be interested to know though rather than which things to switch (because I already believe the list is optimized where I have no extra points to spare). I'd love t hear your thoughts on which army lists to look out for and possible ways to counter with what I'm fielding. If this list showed up against you, how would you counter it?

I'm weary of drop pods from past experience I find most opponents try to get rid of the kill bursta because unchecked it does ridiculous amounts of damage.

Any other thoughts?

Well rams are very useful as orks vehicles are extremely fragile and they should be placed in cover, that's why they always cross terrains and having 6-8 vehicles without rams means you're going to lose 1-2 by getting themselves immobilized.

Shoota boyz never worth it imho, that single s4 bs2 shot never helps while having one more attack in close combat in units of 10 orks is certainly more effective. If you run a mob of 30 boyz those 30 extra attacks granted by the slugga can be a waste but in a unit of 10 that want to get into combat by turn 3 they're helpful.

The regular stompa is awful, 770 points for a thing that only have one blast and a weapon that can get out of ammo for the rest of the game is way too much. Discount stompas for 400-500 points are nice, but still not among the best orks units.

a single S4 BS2 shot? shootas are assault 2 18" range...you'd get 2 shots off then an assault assuming you get the charge that's 2 attacks from shootings and 3 for charging. 5 attacks at S4 with good potential of softening the enemy before enaging.

Sluggas would give you the exact same amount of damage overall 1 shot before charign and 4 attacks on the charge. But you have the following issues.

Orks are slow, very likely you'll take some damage before you get to swing. So if all ur damage comes from combat you'll lose some combat effectiveness before swinging. Shootas overcome this by doing half their damage before the charge.

Yeah I heard the discount stompa is the way to go. I would like one cuz the thing looks cool as hell. it's a big giant ork walker what's not to like? I dunno how effective it is on the field I've never owned or played a stompa. But hopefully it's at least as good as the kill bursta...the kill bursta is very good.

 Akaiyou wrote:
a single S4 BS2 shot? shootas are assault 2 18" range...you'd get 2 shots off then an assault assuming you get the charge that's 2 attacks from shootings and 3 for charging. 5 attacks at S4 with good potential of softening the enemy before enaging.

Sluggas would give you the exact same amount of damage overall 1 shot before charign and 4 attacks on the charge. But you have the following issues.

Orks are slow, very likely you'll take some damage before you get to swing. So if all ur damage comes from combat you'll lose some combat effectiveness before swinging. Shootas overcome this by doing half their damage before the charge.

The more you soften your target before charging, the more chances you have to miss your charge. Also if you're running (on a WAAAGH turn) you lose 2 attacks (shoota) instead of 1 (slugga).

Shootas give you the option to shoot instead of running (in a turn where you're not charging) but most of the time the only good option is running.

Shootas give better overwatch. It's why I like them in 20+ mobz camping objectives, not trukk boyz chasing fodder.

Just my two cents.

fair enough. I don't think sluggas are bad, I find the versatility of shootas to far outweigh the point increase. Sluggas are a bit of a 1 trick pony that can at times be too predictable.

No opponent will expect your slugga boyz to do anything other than what you stated.

 Akaiyou wrote:
fair enough. I don't think sluggas are bad, I find the versatility of shootas to far outweigh the point increase. Sluggas are a bit of a 1 trick pony that can at times be too predictable.

No opponent will expect your slugga boyz to do anything other than what you stated.

Good points also. I will probably try it one day (spamming shoota trukks) to see the difference instead of just theoryhammer.

 Akaiyou wrote:
a single S4 BS2 shot? shootas are assault 2 18" range...you'd get 2 shots off then an assault assuming you get the charge that's 2 attacks from shootings and 3 for charging. 5 attacks at S4 with good potential of softening the enemy before enaging.

Sluggas would give you the exact same amount of damage overall 1 shot before charign and 4 attacks on the charge. But you have the following issues.

Orks are slow, very likely you'll take some damage before you get to swing. So if all ur damage comes from combat you'll lose some combat effectiveness before swinging. Shootas overcome this by doing half their damage before the charge.

Yeah I heard the discount stompa is the way to go. I would like one cuz the thing looks cool as hell. it's a big giant ork walker what's not to like? I dunno how effective it is on the field I've never owned or played a stompa. But hopefully it's at least as good as the kill bursta...the kill bursta is very good.

I meant to say that shootas have just a single shot more than a simple slugga, a unit of 10 boyz with shootas has just 10 s4 shots more than a unit with sluggas, now being bs2 you'll get an average of 3 hits at s4 which means 1.5 wound most of the times. A mediocre 4+ save would probably ignore that result. The better range is also tricky, as trukks turbo boost every time on turn 1 and in turn 2 you may call the waaagh. A unit of 30 shoota boyz may get some decent wounds by shooting and they have tons of attacks in close combat so the bonus of getting a second close combat weapon is not needed, but 10 dudes? Most of the times 40 attacks are not enough, and you may also suffer some casualties before striking. In close combat you strike at ws4 which is way better than bs2, one attack in close combat is better than a shot in the shooting phase, I'd take slugga & choppas boyz all the time. The key is to have a lot of min units of boyz, with other pks units around like bikes and meganobz.

Orks also have a lot of cheap options, saving those 10 points per unit may let you bring some small upgrades that can be valuable.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of mixing trukks with wagons - the fast trukks want to rush forward but the amount you invest in slower wagons dictates that you bubble wrap them with the lesser trukks to protect from side/rear attacks. You inevitably either slow your assault down (and take more damage crossing the board) or split up into two waves (forming an orderly queue for you opponent to take on).

I like shootas, and I like bikers, but in the quantities you have of them I cant see them ever achieving anything significant - like others have already noted swapping these for cheap lone deffkoptas can provide mobile cover and force your opponent into overkilling a weak unit.

If you can protect it, the killbursta should be pretty effective - however the only way you have to protect it currently is to slow down some of your assault units so that's something to bear in mind.

Does your tournament allow for multiple detachments? There is a pretty good battrep here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/718325.page - combining the best bits of your list (killbursta + trukks) with a triple CAD set up similar to the battrep could give you something like this:

6x Megaboss (bosspole/cybork)
6x 10 boys (rokkit, truck with rokkit and ram)
3x Deffkopta (twin rokkits)
1x Killbursta (bursta kannon)
1x Void shield generator

I hardly ever bubble wrap orks, does that strategy work well in your local games?

I would bubble wrap when I used to play kanwall (those were the days)

But I just never feel like battlewagons need to be babysat because I will typically split my forces into a vanguard (the trukks) and rear guard (wagons/kill bursta) strategy. That has up to this point worked well for me.

Things I typically face are bike armies and superfriend deathstars on bikes. These things while being very mobile don't usually bring long range hard hitting weaponry so my front AV14 and even the side armor tends to hold well.

Gladius with masse drop pods (the other typical list I face) will deny the benefit of bubble wrapping and would make my list a sitting duck if I just keep 'em all together waiting for the alpha strike.

Skyhammer Annihilation and imperial guard leaf blower (yep that's still a thing just not as crazy as it once was) are also some of the other types that don't really care for how well you try to bubblewrap. So I just don't bother.

I mostly encounter imperium armies as you can probably guess. Thanks for the link to the bat rep i'll check it out

If you do decide to get a stompa you could use the Kustom Stompa instead of the cheap stompa. The cheap stompa is 400 points including the HQ needed to unlock it but you have to pay for the belly gun/arm gun. The Kustom Stompa is 350 with no weapons but for 150 points on top of that you can give it 2 bursta kanon arms.

For 500 points you have 12 hp, AV 13/13/12, 2 bursta shots a turn and can fight in close combat whereas the kill bursta tank cannot. I like the bursta tank as well--it depends on what you want to do. The stompa also has a 6" bubble of fearless for all ork units (including gretchin and mek gunz).

Using a big mek over the warboss could save you some points and let you potentially fix some stuff too, unless you need the S10 klaw. If you wanted to squeeze more out of your list you could try for a double CAD and use looted wagons for your killkannons and forgeworld gun wagons as your heavy transports. These 2 tanks together cost less than a battlewagon with killkannon and lets you leave your big blasts sitting somewhere while the gun wagons are free to drive where needed. The only downside is gun wagons are AV 13/12/10 instead of the AV 14/12/10 of battlewagons.

I like your list--what armies do you have favorable match-ups against?

That sounds like a great idea Striker. awesome comments I like those suggestions it meets my theme and gameplay.

Now I just need me that stompa.

I do well against most imperial armies and funnily enough against knights too. The kill bursta maybe it's just dumb luck but it does very well against other super heavies it has retired many shadowsword IG tanks.

I also do well against Gladius. I counter assault pretty well.

Lists with skyhammer are the biggest issue there's just nothing I can really do about it. Heavy Vehicle spam is also a problem but if I reach combat I can deal with it. AV13-14 or backfield barrage weapons.

My win streak locally has been solid though partly because most prep to face imperium and then orks show up and grav isn't as effective the deathstars can be bogged down in bodies or removed by the mighty D etc etc

I have had similar success vs imperium armies. I have been toying around with the bully boyz formation but it costs 600+ points on its own so I am using the kustom stompa now.
I have trouble with daemon/summon armies, fliers and multiple knights. I am going to try using gretchin instead of boyz to free points for more tankbustas in the future. I have more bikers in my list as well--I am a sucker for fast attack units.