Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Many troop units would be a lot better with access to just one more special. You see this for example with BA assault squads being ok in comparison to a tac squad. To balance things out a touch more and make standard troops a bit better overall, I propose they get the Skitarii treatment of 2 specials/heavy at 5 and 3 at 10 (with only the option of one heavy if they could only take one before, so either 2 specials or a special and a heavy at 5. Obviously this doesn't apply to units that don't get access to specials anyway, but it's not like Dire Avengers or Necron Warriors particularly need any buff.
So a SM squad can run around at 5 man with 2 melta guns, an IG infantry squad can sit back firing 2 plasma guns alongside their autocannon, Orks boyz now have more rokkits/burnas/bigshootas per 10, Guardian Storm squads squeeze in an extra fusion gun as do Veterans - now being able to field 4 specials in a squad. This of course will affect most factions (Necrons and Daemons being the obvious ones that aren't affected) and will help units that are usually subpar, climb their way back to a minor extent.
Of course, with a range of units and ruleset as vast as 40k there will be issues that haven't gone through my head yet. Overall though, do you consider this a good idea?

Eh I disagree.

I think Tactical Squads should be the opposite. They only get 1 Special/Heavy at 5 guys and 2 more at 10 guys. IG work just fine.

Not sure on Orks as I haven't even attempted a rebalance on them. Storm Guardians I'd argue shouldn't even be a unit but oh well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus we really shouldn't be encouraging even more MSU.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think Tactical Squads should be the opposite. They only get 1 Special/Heavy at 5 guys and 2 more at 10 guys. IG work just fine.

If we are looking to expand their carrying number, agreed.

My own thoughts on the Tacticals is that they are too goofily equipped for their fluff and role. They shouldn't carry any Heavy Weapons that aren't Assault or Salvo. They should be the easy moving, secure unit, not the split-personality unit of 1 Special, 1 Heavy. If I want a sitting Heavy Weapon squad, I'll pull Devastators for that duty as they can carry far more. Additionally, I'd give them a Combat Blade as default. That'd require they go up a point, but it would reflect their background of going through the Devastators and Assault Squads. That's just my feelings on it.

I think that's a fair point considering that some armies don't get the option of squads of 5. So keeping it at 1 per 5 but making it 3 per 10.
So you can take 3 specials (or 2 specials and a heavy) at 10, so therefore are forced to choose between taking 5 or going the full 10 and unlocking the extras. Seems fair. It means units like Chosen/Havocs/Sternguard/Command Squads etc still have the advantage of being able to overload at lower numbers.
I still believe that it will help armies like Guard (see a Renegade unit in comparison for example, and a Renegade unit isnt exactly broken), Orks etc, and would only be fair if it applies across the board.

 Charistoph wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think Tactical Squads should be the opposite. They only get 1 Special/Heavy at 5 guys and 2 more at 10 guys. IG work just fine.

If we are looking to expand their carrying number, agreed.

My own thoughts on the Tacticals is that they are too goofily equipped for their fluff and role. They shouldn't carry any Heavy Weapons that aren't Assault or Salvo. They should be the easy moving, secure unit, not the split-personality unit of 1 Special, 1 Heavy. If I want a sitting Heavy Weapon squad, I'll pull Devastators for that duty as they can carry far more. Additionally, I'd give them a Combat Blade as default. That'd require they go up a point, but it would reflect their background of going through the Devastators and Assault Squads. That's just my feelings on it.

I used to think Tactical Marines should have extra CCW's standard, but I stopped after realizing that there would need to be even more differentiation from units like Grey Hunters and the vanilla CSM and even Sternguard when they only have the 2 attacks base (as do Terminators!)

They should be able to carry those weapons as well, but the true issue is that, on top of the weird Special/Heavy that NEVER made any lick of sense, you can't entirely specialize them for a singular task. Scouts don't give away that false feeling, Bikers can suit up to a particular task, etc.

This honestly hurts orks more than anything else because their special weapons are pretty weak at BS2 and more flamers for everyone else is a serious threat. Then again ork troops work different than most armies so they probably need a different fix.

There doesn't need to be differentiation with grey hunters. Grey hunters can just be grey tactical marines. The SW are special snowflake enough. Put them in the same room with GK and watch the warp implode.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I used to think Tactical Marines should have extra CCW's standard, but I stopped after realizing that there would need to be even more differentiation from units like Grey Hunters and the vanilla CSM and even Sternguard when they only have the 2 attacks base (as do Terminators!)

Simple answers for the Veterans would be to include similar upgrades to them. The Terminators could get special Storm/Combi-Bolter which counts as a CCW or Specialized Weapon in Close Combat. Or just leave Terminators alone because of the raw power of their attacks.

But also consider the fact that Grey Hunters, Tactical Marines, Initiaties, and Chaos Marines all carry the same general background and purpose in their original training, and of those, only one cannot be setup to work with a close combat focus at all. Though, I will admit that how all sets come to this spot vary greatly. Grey Hunters and Initiates can vary from Devastator to Tacticals in experience.

Martel732 wrote:
There doesn't need to be differentiation with grey hunters. Grey hunters can just be grey tactical marines. The SW are special snowflake enough. Put them in the same room with GK and watch the warp implode.

I think too much variation causes problems in balancing. It also makes extremely similar units redundant.

There's so many factions now that knowing how to counter a category of units would be more practical than memorizing unique rules.