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Hey everyone, originally I was looking at tau for the larger suits, mainly to make a cheap and top table tournament army in for some really 'kick your teeth in' type games.

However, reading through the Damocles campaign books (Kauyon and Mont'ka?) I really really fell in love with the Tau's models mainly.

And so I have some questions about a tau army. I really like most of the models (still love the big suits) but I especially like the Ghost Keel.

-How do you use a ghost keel? The Optimized Stealth Cadre seems fun, but is it good?

-What is the consensus on Crisis Suits? I am stuck on how to build them and how many to take if I go down that route.

-The tidewall looks awesome, and really fun to play. Is it any good at all?

-Is the hunter contingent worth taking?

Thanks for answering my questions, hopefully we could get some discussion going

I play againt tau very often in a tournament setting. I see lots of riptide wings (usually 3-5 riptides in every tau list) and most include a storm surge. The ghost keels are pretty solid and yes the stealth cadre is a strong formation. Crisis suits are often found in tau lists as a single model dropping in with either melta or plasma. Typically to fill the min troops requirement.

There is also the piranna formation with tons of drones. This is very boring, in my opinion to play and play against. It feels redundant, and don't get me wrong, it is very good but lacks any creativity on the players part.

Riptides are the bread and butter of tau these days. Broadsides have their place and can often be found in bunkers. Very common is a commander with a group of marker drones. This is a must if you play the big suits. They make the stormsurge missiles strength D and buff BS and most importantly remove cover where needed.

If you are gooing for cut throat look no further than a commander with marker drones, 4-5 riptides, a stormsurge and a couple of crisis suits for your CAD. Skyrays are also quite common in this meta as a way of dealing with FMC and gaining more markers.

Ghostkeels are a lot of fun. The OSC is in fact good; I think it's best with 3 Keels. But unlike the Ghostkeel Wing they are one single unit so you need 2 target locks. The OSC absolutely mauls most vehicles (as most vehicles are rear AV10). And critically, the formation operates independent of markerlights.

How good crisis suits are depends on how competitive your meta is. Most competitive lists that utilize them at all use the minimum two in a Farsight Enclaves CAD to be legal, then fill their list with stormsurges and riptides. However, in a semi-competitive TAC meta, they are fun, tactical elites/troops.

I can't comment on the Tidewall, don't have one. There is a Tau general on here by the name of Jancoran that won a few events with 3 gunrigs but again this is probably more of a fun inclusion.

The Hunter Contingent is somewhere between cool and competitive. I'm not saying you can't roflstomp someone with one but no one is winning GTs with them either.

The bottom line is man, take what you love to play and look at/paint. That is the secret to lasting hobby happiness.

-How do you use a ghost keel? The Optimized Stealth Cadre seems fun, but is it good?

The OSC is excellent. I find it most udeful when you can take a unit of 3 Ghostkeels, as Shrike said, to get the Fire Team bonus and essentially make your Keels BS5. It's probably not worth using the formation if you can't do so due to the Stealth Suit tax. Anyway, with the OSC, you'll devastate any armies that either rely on cover (GSC come to mind) or have a bunch of vehicles (battle company, DE). Even if you're just trying to dump dice on something that you're not particularly strong against, that volume of BS5 S7 shooting is tough for just about anything to weather. Everything in the formation is obviously reasonably short-ranged and needs to stick together if you want the Stealth Suits to utilize Wall of Mirrors, so I typically use it to push a flank and maybe hold a midfield objective. Ghostkeels are pretty tanky against most armies due to their 2+ cover in the open, so take advantage of that fact.

What is the consensus on Crisis Suits? I am stuck on how to build them and how many to take if I go down that route.

Other than Broadsides, Crisis suits boast the best damage output per point in the codex and can be even more deadly in a "Crisis Bomb" where a Commander gives them rerolls to hit, ignores cover, and tank/monster hunter. Unfortunately, they are really fragile and are too expensive to be expendable. Most people use them with 2 flamers - or even just naked - and grab objectives with them. If you want to use them offensively, dual cyclic ion blasters or fusion blasters are the way to go, in my opinion. Some people like plasma, but the CIB is better in most circumstances. The aformentioned Crisis Bomb is a nasty unit to deal with, but it gets really expensive. If your opponent has an answer for it, you're hosed.

The tidewall looks awesome, and really fun to play. Is it any good at all?

The Tidewall is pretty bad, unfortunately. It's quite expensive and doesn't do much for you that a 50-pt Aegis line can't accomplish. The Gunrigs, on the other hand, are great. The ITC tournament rules don't allow the Gunfort formation which consists of 3 Gunrigs, but if you've got 85 pts kicking around, I can think of much worse ways to use it than on a twin-linked railgun that provides cover to your little dudes.

Is the hunter contingent worth taking?

Definitely. I'm honestly not sure why it hasn't shown up in major tournaments. Marker light sharing is a huge deal, and 12" supporting fire from the Hunter Cadre probably allows most of your force to get in on the action. I don't feel like it has much of a tax, given that the Fire Warriors are essentially going to be BS4 most of the time, and you can make the fast attack option your marker source. I've had great luck against tournament-level lists with a HC, and so can you.

OP, Milkman knows what he's talking about, so if he says a Hunter Contingent can work in a GT environment, I'd defer to him.

My guess as to why no one does is they probably take an extra Riptide with all the points saved on Strikes/Crisis "taxes." I wouldn't know, I refuse to use the Riptide Wing and only use the Forgeworld variants.

I've used the HC in friendly games and had a lot of fun. I don't mind giving up ObSec, Tau aren't quiiiiiite good enough at the MSU Obsec spam to make that a viable strategy, though I have tried.

Bottom line for the OP, Tau are primarily an offensive force. They need to come close to tabling or be able to control the mid-board. This gets difficult against some competitive matchups because we have huge liabilities in the psychic and assault phases. I'm a firm believer that any Tau army worthy of a GT needs to have a pretty devastating alpha strike. Because, there are certain opponents against whom you simply have to get top turn or you'll lose. I'm speaking of psychic deathstars like BarkBark, TWC, screamerstar, etc. Even non deathstars like a good flying circus can have you essentially dead to rights if you don't get top turn.

Some Tau players, and I've experimented with it, take some type of allied psychic defense with them. A Cullexus, or a Null Maiden Task Force. Ultimately, I usually settle on praying for first turn against the aforementioned bad matchups. If my opponent tries to reserve a bunch of big-ticket items, great, I've got EWO on everything and I'll establish board control. If he doesn't, ranged D is absolutely essential to a strong Tau GT list. I still think a single Stormsurge is sufficient, provided you have adequate marker support to make those D missiles count. And I still use the "D shotgun" Pulse Blaster Cannon for its D abilities throughout the game; as well as Stomps if the matchup permits.

Well, I've gone off on a tangent about GT-style play; what type of meta do you play in? How competition-oriented is it?

P.S. Here's a thread from a Tau-focused forum specifically discussing OSC tactics:

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=24436

Milkman knows what he's talking about, so if he says a Hunter Contingent can work in a GT environment, I'd defer to him.

I appreciate the props, but I don't know that for a fact. I don't have any hard evidence to support my case. I've never been to a GT, and I've never seen anyone be particularly successful in one with a HC list. However, I've played against several people who are tournament regulars running competitive lists and had considerable success. I believe there was someone awhile ago in the big Tau thread who said he had good luck on the competitive scene with a HC that used Firebase Support Cadres as auxiliaries. It just seems like an excellent setup for an army in this age of rampant deathstars and mega-units. It solves most of the problems that MSU Tau would otherwise have.

Some Tau players, and I've experimented with it, take some type of allied psychic defense with them. A Cullexus, or a Null Maiden Task Force.

The NMTF has made psychic defense a virtual auto-include, in my opinion. 75pts for a decent-sized anti-psychic bubble and some sorely-needed counter-assault is way too good to pass up.

I've only used the Cullexus, working on some Sisters conversions now, but even using them I would have thought that just one squad would be insufficient. I've been planning on two squads.

Five T3 wounds with a 3+ save that don't infiltrate? Sure, you can invest more points in a bunker+escape hatch, but then that's all the more points spent on something you'll only need some of the time, and their psychic abomination doesn't work if it's inside the building. A Cullexus is more expensive but infiltrates, is invisible in all but name and is deadlier in close combat against psykers and non-psykers alike.

But you've used them, what say you? Doesn't a savvy opponent just blow them away? And unlike a Cullexus which is a single guardsman sized model, you have to figure out a way to hide five? I dunno, I'm not seeing it. Like I said I'm trying out ten but they're more expensive than a Cullexus, albeit with more bubble wrap potential.

In any case OP, I always like the look of my lists more when they just go for broke on firepower/alpha strike and ignore my psychic vulnerabilities. When I get a bad matchup I pray for top turn, and if I don't get it I do my best to play to the mission and proceed to lose lol.

Sisters certainly aren't rock solid, but you can generally hide them easily enough. 5 infantry models have a pretty small footprint and can be stashed out of LoS pretty easily. In a pinch, you can even shield them with your big suits. I never used a Culexus all that aggressively, so infiltrating isn't something I miss. My psychic defense is usually hanging back near my Stormsurge and/or Riptides, waiting to either dart forward to get the bubble near something that needs debugging or to prevent various maledictions.

That said, I find one unit of Sisters a bit on the squishy side. Granted, you get what you pay for, but they obviously don't do you any good if they're dead. Two units is much more reliable for not much more cost, and having a credible counter-charge threat never hurts. I also tend to play very aggressively, so my opponent's may have a slightly harder time devoting fire to the relatively inoccuous sisters when there's an Y'Vahra or multiple Breacher units or an OSC in his face.

Thanks for the tactical advice! all of it is very useful.

What is the consensus on breachers? I like their look and feel more than strike teams, but are they actually any good?

I'm a Breacher fan, but you have to be dedicated to them to get them to work for you. I'd recommend either a Counterstrike Cadre to get them up the board rapidly or using disruption pods and a Ghostkeel Wing for 2+ jink saves on your Devilfish as you sloooooowly advance up the board. If you feel like babying them even more, running them in a Hunter Contingent can be nice since the Devilfish gives you an easy route to BS4 (fish, drones, and unit shooting the same target) and can result in some bonus run and/or flat-out moves, which is always welcome.

There are a couple logistical things to remember with Breachers, though. First and foremost, 5" is a really short distance. You basically have to unload right on top of your target, and sometimes that isn't easy to do. Second is that Breachers are obviously extremely fragile and are going to need some protection. Once they're out of the Fish, they're going to get zapped fast. Nobody wants a few dozen plasma guns blasting away at them for any longer than absolutely necessary. The best way around that is blocking off things with your Fish. Devilfish are pretty bulky vehicles, so you can obscure your Breachers fairly effectively if you can get to the side of or behind your target. If you have multiple fish in the area, things get easier.

Fortunately, the solution to both issues is small units. You're going to struggle with getting more than 7 Breachers in range, so don't bother. Similarly, one Devilfish can only effectively conceal 6-7 models - try it yourself! That also happens to be the number of Breachers needed to reliably vaporise a 5-man marine unit without any marker or Ethereal support. Consequently, I hardly ever go above 7 models per unit.

They seem like sorta an assassin squad? Which I like.

I also like the idea of the 2+ jinking devilfish.

Another question - (sorry for the volume of these questions)

What is the consensus on the forgeworld barracuda fighter? I've seen them around at my FLGS and they look quite cool.

The Barracuda is merely an okay option. 185pts for 11 S7 shots in a Tau army isn't setting the world on fire, but it could certainly be worse. I'd rather have another HBC Riptide or 3 Broadsides, though.

I love Breachers too; and despite the movement benefits of a hunter cadre I take them in a CAD because ObSec devilfish are resilient, mobile scoring units. (And I love Forgeworld Tau stuff)

The 2+ jink is certainly nice, but I've tried the Ghostkeel Wing and just find the OSC to be superior. You can still put Disruption Pods on the fish if you want, but even those points I find I miss. I like to keep the Breachers and Fish cheap. 5-6 dudes and a naked fish. The only upgrade I use consistently is SMS on the fish because it's highway robbery for 10 points, but sometimes you really do need those drones to use as a bubble wrap (combined with others, 2 doesn't do much of anything).

Many people upgrade to a Shas'ui to then purchase the shield drone for the 5++. Don't chase these things. More boys, less toys. 22 points to make your Breachers 33% more resilient against certain weapons is inefficient. Breachers are meant to die. Let them. You've got an AV12 delivery system with a 4+ save to get them there. They should get one volley. If they get more, that's gravy. The fish is what should have a decent chance at survival, not the Breachers.

I'm not saying a single Breacher team in a fish is useless, but I like to run them in teams of 2 or 3 with an Ethereal. It's not that expensive for what you get. You need ObSec anyway; unless you're just going all-in for a Table-them-or-bust force, which Tau can do. The Ethereal's Storm of Fire ability is terrifying for your opponent within 5". And it's really not that hard to get inside that zone. T1 you move at cruising speed and jink. T2 you do the same if necessary (Vanguard/Hammer and Anvil). T3 you move 6, disembark 6 and still have your 5" death zone. If you can't make a 17" threat radius work, you're probably a bad general. With 2-3 of those teams hitting at once, supported by a Stormsurge and an OSC? Or a couple Y'Vahras? Who said Tau can't be aggressive?

Wouldn't the counterstrike cadre not benefit from the Hunter Contingent/Hunter Cadre rules? It's not an approved auxiliary choice in the Tau Codex, it would have to be a separate/lone formation taken with it along with another auxiliary.

 The Shrike wrote:
I love Breachers too; and despite the movement benefits of a hunter cadre I take them in a CAD because ObSec devilfish are resilient, mobile scoring units. (And I love Forgeworld Tau stuff)

The 2+ jink is certainly nice, but I've tried the Ghostkeel Wing and just find the OSC to be superior. You can still put Disruption Pods on the fish if you want, but even those points I find I miss. I like to keep the Breachers and Fish cheap. 5-6 dudes and a naked fish. The only upgrade I use consistently is SMS on the fish because it's highway robbery for 10 points, but sometimes you really do need those drones to use as a bubble wrap (combined with others, 2 doesn't do much of anything).

Many people upgrade to a Shas'ui to then purchase the shield drone for the 5++. Don't chase these things. More boys, less toys. 22 points to make your Breachers 33% more resilient against certain weapons is inefficient. Breachers are meant to die. Let them. You've got an AV12 delivery system with a 4+ save to get them there. They should get one volley. If they get more, that's gravy. The fish is what should have a decent chance at survival, not the Breachers.

I'm not saying a single Breacher team in a fish is useless, but I like to run them in teams of 2 or 3 with an Ethereal. It's not that expensive for what you get. You need ObSec anyway; unless you're just going all-in for a Table-them-or-bust force, which Tau can do. The Ethereal's Storm of Fire ability is terrifying for your opponent within 5". And it's really not that hard to get inside that zone. T1 you move at cruising speed and jink. T2 you do the same if necessary (Vanguard/Hammer and Anvil). T3 you move 6, disembark 6 and still have your 5" death zone. If you can't make a 17" threat radius work, you're probably a bad general. With 2-3 of those teams hitting at once, supported by a Stormsurge and an OSC? Or a couple Y'Vahras? Who said Tau can't be aggressive?

Isn't Storm of Fire unusable from the devilfish? I stopped running an ethereal with mine because he doesn't count as being on the table while inside the transport anymore. Since you have to declare the Storm of Fire at the beginning of your movement phase you can't disembark first as far as I can tell.

Isn't Storm of Fire unusable from the devilfish?

Not since it got FAQ'd, unfortunately. I've always understood that once you get out of the transport, Storm of Fire functions as it should.

Wouldn't the counterstrike cadre not benefit from the Hunter Contingent/Hunter Cadre rules? It's not an approved auxiliary choice in the Tau Codex, it would have to be a separate/lone formation taken with it along with another auxiliary.

Correct.

I didn't see that in the most recent Faq, was that from an older one? I've never used it if he stayed in the fish but with everybody spilled out, doesn't make any sense that he couldn't use it. Anyway please correct my understanding, it sounds like I've been playing it wrong for years.

To make it clear what I usually do:

Movement phase; Declare Ethereal Storm of fire, move and disembark.

Shooting phase: fire away with SoF bonus.

Wrong?

I meant that he can't use it while embarked. If he gets out, all is well.

For some reason I expected the first reply post to read:

Shoot 'em dead.

Might I also add... how dumb it is that the standard Tau force doesn't have access to the Counterstrike Cadre.

That seems like a formation that would fit either Mont'Ka or Kauyon tactics.

 The Shrike wrote:
I didn't see that in the most recent Faq, was that from an older one? I've never used it if he stayed in the fish but with everybody spilled out, doesn't make any sense that he couldn't use it. Anyway please correct my understanding, it sounds like I've been playing it wrong for years.

To make it clear what I usually do:

Movement phase; Declare Ethereal Storm of fire, move and disembark.

Shooting phase: fire away with SoF bonus.

Wrong?

Might be something that needs to go to YMDC. The problem as I saw it is models in transports count as not being on the table. Would you think you can activate the ability if he was in reserves? I've taken that as he can't activate the ability and then disembark to give the aura off.