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2017/03/22 09:37:46
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Most competitive GSC armylist focus on the subterranean uprising formation and bring a lot of acolytes and metamorph's. But without some converting or 'count as models' it's a very expensive thing to field.
To take down knights you need metamorph's with a +2 strength claw or acolytes/genestealers with furious charge and/or +1 strenght psychic power upgrade.
Rock saws could also do the trick but I rather summon them cheap then pay for them. Problem is that knights can take down 8-10 models if the can also stomp. You need to kill them in one go.
2017/03/22 11:01:26
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
By math hammer, the First Curse Formation can on average destroy an Imperial Knight in one round of combat. On the charge you will dish out 100 S5 rending attacks, hit on 3s So landing around 66 hit, 11 rends, and by D3 extra rolls will average 7.33 HP from AV13, that is not even counting the Patriarch's 7 S7 rending attacks. Kaboom! A Knight is destroyed, what you only have to worry is now how to survive the titanic explosion....
2017/03/22 14:16:22
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
10 claw metamorphs put out 3.333 HPs on the charge, so 20 should down one (that's assuming hitting on 4s). For 220pts, not bad. Basically due to the proliferation of high str rending, if you do what you should be doing as a genecult player and stacking as many metamorphs as you can fit, you should have enough to down a knight in a turn with relative ease. The trouble will be getting enough squads into it all at once.
2017/03/22 17:23:09
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
shogun wrote:Most competitive GSC armylist focus on the subterranean uprising formation and bring a lot of acolytes and metamorph's. But without some converting or 'count as models' it's a very expensive thing to field.
To take down knights you need metamorph's with a +2 strength claw or acolytes/genestealers with furious charge and/or +1 strenght psychic power upgrade.
Rock saws could also do the trick but I rather summon them cheap then pay for them. Problem is that knights can take down 8-10 models if the can also stomp. You need to kill them in one go.
I brought just one 5 men box = just one claw.... look like bit&kits shopping for me...
Neophyte2012 wrote:By math hammer, the First Curse Formation can on average destroy an Imperial Knight in one round of combat. On the charge you will dish out 100 S5 rending attacks, hit on 3s So landing around 66 hit, 11 rends, and by D3 extra rolls will average 7.33 HP from AV13, that is not even counting the Patriarch's 7 S7 rending attacks. Kaboom! A Knight is destroyed, what you only have to worry is now how to survive the titanic explosion....
I like that tactic! I have too many 4th edition genestealer that collect a dust. Time to wake them up!
Benlisted wrote:10 claw metamorphs put out 3.333 HPs on the charge, so 20 should down one (that's assuming hitting on 4s). For 220pts, not bad. Basically due to the proliferation of high str rending, if you do what you should be doing as a genecult player and stacking as many metamorphs as you can fit, you should have enough to down a knight in a turn with relative ease. The trouble will be getting enough squads into it all at once.
Yeah most of my battle are 1,500 limit... not easy to fitting all of those good with their best formations..
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just did a list base on what I have. I still have spare Neophyte units and a Aberrants unit for reforms or summon. And handful of heavy squad and a leman russ tank.
+++ Star lord brood (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2032) (1501pts) +++
"You cannot include more than one Patriarch, one Magus and one Primus in the same Cult Insurrection Detachment."
If I am going remove him, I going need another formation to fit in the Cult Insurrection...
Automatically Appended Next Post: But I can swap for more metamorph with few more pts leftover for cult mutant.
A shadow skulkers which made 5 purestain Genestealer cost same as a Primus with few pts leftover.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/23 00:30:25
2017/03/23 01:00:55
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
2017/03/23 07:16:33
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Tsol wrote: I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
2017/03/23 17:10:29
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
GodDamUser wrote:That is true but you can put another magus into the CAD no issue
So max 3 Magus possible with the current build
Then with the spare points maybe some leader upgrades if possible
I only have one Magus model from overkill box and I conversion my command model from Imperial Guard Command squad into Magus and it look good. Are I going convert one more of my model into Magus? I have many spare model from Imperial Guard and Chao cults from Dark Vengeance boxset.
Tsol wrote:I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
Yes I can use that tactic to taunt Imperial Knight to shield up where I want them to. But not with mining laser because it range are great!
I think mining laser suit sit on rear of Chimera while the rest using Chimera mount lasgun.
Going need buy Neophyte Hybrid Armoured Claw....
shogun wrote:
Tsol wrote: I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
I find that Demolition charge is cheaper than mining laser for this tactic. It can pop up around imperial knight and throw those Demolition charge. Suitable summon units with two Demolition or planning it out using one Demolition per broods. More chance in ambush roll.
2017/03/23 22:44:43
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
But you can get by that with Psychic Stimulus, which give Relentless as one of the bonuses
2017/03/24 07:04:40
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Solidcrash wrote:
I find that Demolition charge is cheaper than mining laser for this tactic. It can pop up around imperial knight and throw those Demolition charge. Suitable summon units with two Demolition or planning it out using one Demolition per broods. More chance in ambush roll.
Demolition charge needs to be within 6 inch. So only if you roll a '6' result on the cult ambush, can you do this. Your better off summoning a unit acolytes with rock saws.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
But you can get by that with Psychic Stimulus, which give Relentless as one of the bonuses
That's not a reliable strategy. You cannot afford to keep shooting at a knight because you need to get it in close combat asap. Shooting single shots with bskill 3 -> crap. And if you bring a GSC-list with a whole bunch of mining lasers then you already lost because it's not a shooty army.
2017/03/24 16:40:18
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Solidcrash wrote:
I find that Demolition charge is cheaper than mining laser for this tactic. It can pop up around imperial knight and throw those Demolition charge. Suitable summon units with two Demolition or planning it out using one Demolition per broods. More chance in ambush roll.
Demolition charge needs to be within 6 inch. So only if you roll a '6' result on the cult ambush, can you do this. Your better off summoning a unit acolytes with rock saws.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
But you can get by that with Psychic Stimulus, which give Relentless as one of the bonuses
That's not a reliable strategy. You cannot afford to keep shooting at a knight because you need to get it in close combat asap. Shooting single shots with bskill 3 -> crap. And if you bring a GSC-list with a whole bunch of mining lasers then you already lost because it's not a shooty army.
Brood with two mining laser in it is good enough for sit on objective and do shooting..
Too many mining laser is bad idea, as there are various of melee we can use.
And Demolition charge is large blast. Don't have to touch the large model as large blast can hit it. Yeah scatter away from enemy model is a bad luck and waste one shot only Demolition charge..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 16:41:09
2017/03/24 17:05:24
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
And Demolition charge is large blast. Don't have to touch the large model as large blast can hit it. Yeah scatter away from enemy model is a bad luck and waste one shot only Demolition charge..
You can only shoot the demolition charge if the model is within 6 inch and with cult ambush you can only do this with a 6 result. You got to place the centre op the blast on the enemy model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 17:05:36
2017/03/24 17:21:26
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Don't want made my topic into YMDC If anyone want to correct either me or shotgun please create a new topic in YMDC I am not made a side but I'll read it
If Demolition Charge is out of order then which are useful for ambush the enemy's stronger unit apart from roll a 6 in cult ambush chart?
2017/03/25 08:03:59
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Solidcrash wrote: Don't want made my topic into YMDC If anyone want to correct either me or shotgun please create a new topic in YMDC I am not made a side but I'll read it
I can do this but then I would get 99% players agreeing and 1% writing: "oh, it seemed I did this wrong". That is not really a discussion.
Solidcrash wrote: If Demolition Charge is out of order then which are useful for ambush the enemy's stronger unit apart from roll a 6 in cult ambush chart?
Depends on what you mean by 'stronger' unit. In most cases you need to get as much acolytes and metamorph's in subterranean uprising formations, because rending can deal with everything.
But you can also add 3 flying hive tyrants or a bunch of imperial artillery as allies.
For general GSC tactics I would revere to this topic:
Tsol wrote: I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
I mean hit and runs are not for every player, but I cannot tell you how often a 60 points of mining lasers has blow up tanks and walkers because my opponents was not expecting mid range laz cannons coming out of a 45-100 points squad. I love the GSC because they are all about the hit and run. Its also a good to remember the first turn infiltrate, does NOT (as per FAQ/update) count as moving and so all models may fire at full BS. So those three or four squads with heavy weapons pop up, shoot and do some real damage. If Laz, seismic cannons, rending and demolition charges are not your thing, which I highly suggest you include a few of each, but to each their own, take some abominations, those will be surprisingly good against a knight. Don't like heavy weapons? Don't want to rely on witchcraft to boost your squads, put guns on your vehicals. The goliath, is a mean and fast little bugger with a whole bunch of options and a shocking about of punch. Don't want to use those, take Chimeras, they are awesome heavy weapon transports. Think they are overcosted or want long range anti tank, but don't want to use any of those? I recommend Allied guard, their vanquisher tanks are probably what you're looking for.
As other have pointed out, relentless can be earned a few ways, but if you don't like my tactics (which work for my local meta but maybe not yours), you'll have to expand to allies or radically change your current playstyle. I can't stress enough though, I highly urge you to take a little of everything. Take a couple mining lasers, some seismic cannons, some bombs and some abominations, and try using them in concert. My first several games of GSC went horribly for me, cause I treated them too much like Space Marines and Skitarrii: specialised units who can be kitted to take out what you want. Try taking at least two squads of each to take down one target. Your troops are cheap enough to do it, and your weapon upgrades although costly, are not bank breaking.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/25 09:14:34
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
2017/03/25 12:04:22
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Tsol wrote: I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
I mean hit and runs are not for every player, but I cannot tell you how often a 60 points of mining lasers has blow up tanks and walkers because my opponents was not expecting mid range laz cannons coming out of a 45-100 points squad. I love the GSC because they are all about the hit and run. Its also a good to remember the first turn infiltrate, does NOT (as per FAQ/update) count as moving and so all models may fire at full BS. So those three or four squads with heavy weapons pop up, shoot and do some real damage. If Laz, seismic cannons, rending and demolition charges are not your thing, which I highly suggest you include a few of each, but to each their own, take some abominations, those will be surprisingly good against a knight. Don't like heavy weapons? Don't want to rely on witchcraft to boost your squads, put guns on your vehicals. The goliath, is a mean and fast little bugger with a whole bunch of options and a shocking about of punch. Don't want to use those, take Chimeras, they are awesome heavy weapon transports. Think they are overcosted or want long range anti tank, but don't want to use any of those? I recommend Allied guard, their vanquisher tanks are probably what you're looking for.
As other have pointed out, relentless can be earned a few ways, but if you don't like my tactics (which work for my local meta but maybe not yours), you'll have to expand to allies or radically change your current playstyle. I can't stress enough though, I highly urge you to take a little of everything. Take a couple mining lasers, some seismic cannons, some bombs and some abominations, and try using them in concert. My first several games of GSC went horribly for me, cause I treated them too much like Space Marines and Skitarrii: specialised units who can be kitted to take out what you want. Try taking at least two squads of each to take down one target. Your troops are cheap enough to do it, and your weapon upgrades although costly, are not bank breaking.
If this kind of army works in your meta, then your meta isn't really competitive. You play a shooting game with an army that is not build for it. The 'get a little bit of everything' is the worst advice you can give a GSC-player because GSC got the cheapest close combat 'rending' you can find and it's better then any gun the can bring.
The problem is that a lot of GSC-players don't want to buy a lot of acolytes/metamorph's and the only got guardsmen/neophytes and/or genestealers to field a GSC army. I do understand that but it is not a competitive setting.
2017/03/25 16:53:53
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
I see these questions popping up more and more and I had a lightbulb go off. Why rely on the cult ambush table for everything? Trucks are SOOO cheap, you can easily take multiple claw units in trucks and simply rush the damned thing, use cult ambush to block the bastard in with cheap neophytes that are fearless from a patriarch and rush the thing. I like a CAD personally for my core with sub uprisings added on, but your mileage may very. I just really dislike the core choices for the cult insurrection, that coupled with the fact you need a CAD to take redundant characters anyway and you may as well just mount up with a large portion or your metamorphs and acolytes and simply rush them in addition to using the uprising.
If taking the cult insurrection detachment then take rock grinders where you can and ram his legs
I will admit it's expensive however which is probably a big factor. For me I have 30 metamorphs and 50 acolytes and 4 trucks, so after having issues with that damned table being so unreliable I am leaning toward putting half those units in trucks and rushing turn 1 in addition to using the more reliable sub uprising, I personally don't think the benefits are there to justify the brood cycle or cavalcade since they generally aren't reliable, the only way to make cult insurrection reliable is to go MSU which undermines numbers beyond counting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/25 17:06:06
Red Corsair wrote: I see these questions popping up more and more and I had a lightbulb go off. Why rely on the cult ambush table for everything? Trucks are SOOO cheap, you can easily take multiple claw units in trucks and simply rush the damned thing, use cult ambush to block the bastard in with cheap neophytes that are fearless from a patriarch and rush the thing. I like a CAD personally for my core with sub uprisings added on, but your mileage may very. I just really dislike the core choices for the cult insurrection, that coupled with the fact you need a CAD to take redundant characters anyway and you may as well just mount up with a large portion or your metamorphs and acolytes and simply rush them in addition to using the uprising.
If taking the cult insurrection detachment then take rock grinders where you can and ram his legs
I will admit it's expensive however which is probably a big factor. For me I have 30 metamorphs and 50 acolytes and 4 trucks, so after having issues with that damned table being so unreliable I am leaning toward putting half those units in trucks and rushing turn 1 in addition to using the more reliable sub uprising, I personally don't think the benefits are there to justify the brood cycle or cavalcade since they generally aren't reliable, the only way to make cult insurrection reliable is to go MSU which undermines numbers beyond counting.
But a vehicle can only move 6" and allow people to disembark - meaning you move 6", disembark 6", then have a 12" charge assuming the foe was foolish enough to deploy on the line. Sure, you can infiltrate them in at 18", move 12", turbo and then move the following turn to get an extremely close up charge, but that isn't a turn 1 charge. I am skeptical that AV11/10/10 3 HP open-topped vehicles are going to survive that long.
Also, I disagree that MSU undermines numbers beyond counting - sure, it's easier to wipe out units, but if even a single model survives, the enemy risks the entire unit returning. It's still perfectly good - especially if you see it as a bonus rather than something reliable, which it is since the enemy can still wipe out 10man units and prevent them going back into reserves by getting close.
2017/03/27 05:19:21
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Tsol wrote: I have found hybrids kitted out with mining lasers, about popping up all around the knightt to be super effective, make the first squad shoot his side or front armor to make him put up his shields, then have the other squads pop up on his rear or other side armor and shoot that.It costs a few points for the lasers but hell, the ability to almost always appear on flanks is an awesome feature and you should do it, otherwise, might as well play a different army.
Mining lasers are 'heavy'. 'Popping up' means moving and only snap shots. If the GSC shooting is not free (summoning) or included (autopistols/lasguns) it's not worth it. And a few mining lasers could only take down a knight if you got 8+ turns and the opponent's army is paralysed during that time.
I mean hit and runs are not for every player, but I cannot tell you how often a 60 points of mining lasers has blow up tanks and walkers because my opponents was not expecting mid range laz cannons coming out of a 45-100 points squad. I love the GSC because they are all about the hit and run. Its also a good to remember the first turn infiltrate, does NOT (as per FAQ/update) count as moving and so all models may fire at full BS. So those three or four squads with heavy weapons pop up, shoot and do some real damage. If Laz, seismic cannons, rending and demolition charges are not your thing, which I highly suggest you include a few of each, but to each their own, take some abominations, those will be surprisingly good against a knight. Don't like heavy weapons? Don't want to rely on witchcraft to boost your squads, put guns on your vehicals. The goliath, is a mean and fast little bugger with a whole bunch of options and a shocking about of punch. Don't want to use those, take Chimeras, they are awesome heavy weapon transports. Think they are overcosted or want long range anti tank, but don't want to use any of those? I recommend Allied guard, their vanquisher tanks are probably what you're looking for.
As other have pointed out, relentless can be earned a few ways, but if you don't like my tactics (which work for my local meta but maybe not yours), you'll have to expand to allies or radically change your current playstyle. I can't stress enough though, I highly urge you to take a little of everything. Take a couple mining lasers, some seismic cannons, some bombs and some abominations, and try using them in concert. My first several games of GSC went horribly for me, cause I treated them too much like Space Marines and Skitarrii: specialised units who can be kitted to take out what you want. Try taking at least two squads of each to take down one target. Your troops are cheap enough to do it, and your weapon upgrades although costly, are not bank breaking.
If this kind of army works in your meta, then your meta isn't really competitive. You play a shooting game with an army that is not build for it. The 'get a little bit of everything' is the worst advice you can give a GSC-player because GSC got the cheapest close combat 'rending' you can find and it's better then any gun the can bring.
The problem is that a lot of GSC-players don't want to buy a lot of acolytes/metamorph's and the only got guardsmen/neophytes and/or genestealers to field a GSC army. I do understand that but it is not a competitive setting.
I mean yeah. But my advice isn't meant for how to make a full competitive list, but a mean to counter an Imperial Knight. Having two or three units with some hard hitting short to mid range heavy weapons can do that. I use genestealters and metamoprhs all the time, but as the OP said, they aren't working for him in this situation.
But I agree, don't build GSC as a primary range force, use Allies for that, like I suggested. But I disagree that taking a variety of options for different squads is bad advice. Having dedicated combat rolls should be your mainstay and having redundancies increases chances of success for those roles. I suppose if you're local meta you know exactly what your opponent is playing you can tailor your list to what they will bring, but I am assuming OP and most others will have opponents who bring different lists and don't always know what they will fight.
I just realized maybe my wording wasn't specific enough and you mean taking a little bit of everything in one squad. If so yes, I wholly agree, that is bad advice, but I'll make clear here, in case that's what was read, that I mean have several different squads kitted out with different dedicated weapons.
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
2017/03/27 09:55:41
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
I mean yeah. But my advice isn't meant for how to make a full competitive list, but a mean to counter an Imperial Knight. Having two or three units with some hard hitting short to mid range heavy weapons can do that. I use genestealters and metamoprhs all the time, but as the OP said, they aren't working for him in this situation.
But I agree, don't build GSC as a primary range force, use Allies for that, like I suggested. But I disagree that taking a variety of options for different squads is bad advice. Having dedicated combat rolls should be your mainstay and having redundancies increases chances of success for those roles. I suppose if you're local meta you know exactly what your opponent is playing you can tailor your list to what they will bring, but I am assuming OP and most others will have opponents who bring different lists and don't always know what they will fight.
I just realized maybe my wording wasn't specific enough and you mean taking a little bit of everything in one squad. If so yes, I wholly agree, that is bad advice, but I'll make clear here, in case that's what was read, that I mean have several different squads kitted out with different dedicated weapons.
I don't do list tailoring because I play tournaments that include lists like; deathstars, 5+ riptides, Eldar shooty armies etc. So in a way I do know what the opponent can bring to the table but I need an answer for everything.
But in the end it is not only about taking down a single knight because you also got to face the remaining army, and if both players got armies on an equal level and a good match then it is okay. Go bring a bunch of mining lasers or whatever. But as a tactic? Astra militarum armies are getting shot down with tau and eldar shooting and they're better at the shooting game then GSC. A knight with only 1 Hullpoint left is still as dangerous and a GSC army cannot afford to let it shoot and assault for 3+ turns.
2017/03/28 16:46:24
Subject: Re:Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
I am going expect a Imperial Knight and Dark Angels or imperial fist.
About ally with codex Imperial Guard.
I don't have current Imperial Guard codex until you recommend me to buy one, might don't need one for Allies.
I have a Valkyrie, 20 Stormtrooper, a lemen russ, between 30 to 40 men, 5 veteran and a commander. In 4th edition I use those as ally with my codex inquisitor with grey knight. ( not storm trooper as ally.. as troop instead )
I would like to buy more tanks... and Lord of War tank! Or include my own Imperial Knight within Imperial Guard ally lord of war slot...
About go for pure codex Genestealer Cult.
I am going need a vehicle for my Broods... Mining laser on back of vehicle is good call.
Look like I going need made my purestrain broods bigger after remove Primus. More body and more claws.
About ally with codex Tyranids Flyrant
Add flyrant....
2017/03/28 23:10:59
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Well you can put the Russ in your GSC list and lot of the ground men you could run as neophytes
The Valkyrie could be useful.. as well as some other Guard tanks like Bassies and Medusas
Flyrants are also nice.. But remember don't recommend running both Nids and Guard Allies, as they are still COA to each other (but the deployment issues can be easily avoided)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/28 23:12:03
2017/03/31 17:14:24
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
Red Corsair wrote: I see these questions popping up more and more and I had a lightbulb go off. Why rely on the cult ambush table for everything? Trucks are SOOO cheap, you can easily take multiple claw units in trucks and simply rush the damned thing, use cult ambush to block the bastard in with cheap neophytes that are fearless from a patriarch and rush the thing. I like a CAD personally for my core with sub uprisings added on, but your mileage may very. I just really dislike the core choices for the cult insurrection, that coupled with the fact you need a CAD to take redundant characters anyway and you may as well just mount up with a large portion or your metamorphs and acolytes and simply rush them in addition to using the uprising.
If taking the cult insurrection detachment then take rock grinders where you can and ram his legs
I will admit it's expensive however which is probably a big factor. For me I have 30 metamorphs and 50 acolytes and 4 trucks, so after having issues with that damned table being so unreliable I am leaning toward putting half those units in trucks and rushing turn 1 in addition to using the more reliable sub uprising, I personally don't think the benefits are there to justify the brood cycle or cavalcade since they generally aren't reliable, the only way to make cult insurrection reliable is to go MSU which undermines numbers beyond counting.
But a vehicle can only move 6" and allow people to disembark - meaning you move 6", disembark 6", then have a 12" charge assuming the foe was foolish enough to deploy on the line. Sure, you can infiltrate them in at 18", move 12", turbo and then move the following turn to get an extremely close up charge, but that isn't a turn 1 charge. I am skeptical that AV11/10/10 3 HP open-topped vehicles are going to survive that long.
Also, I disagree that MSU undermines numbers beyond counting - sure, it's easier to wipe out units, but if even a single model survives, the enemy risks the entire unit returning. It's still perfectly good - especially if you see it as a bonus rather than something reliable, which it is since the enemy can still wipe out 10man units and prevent them going back into reserves by getting close.
Well, I am speaking from my own experience. The goliath btw is a clown car, in fact it pissed me off that I payed over 65 dollars for something that could represent an ork buggy lol. Point being that it is easy as hell to rush a pair up behind LOS blocking cover on turn 1. This creates a massive threat zone that the knight won't go near unless he wants to trade. BTW your acting as though players want to shoot the truck my list has two sub uprisings with 5 units in each, for 80 models ambushing around them. NOBODY shoots the trucks lol. My current 1500 point list runs a CAD with the two aforementioned truck units and 3 units of neophyte along with the patriarch (who btw isn't the best option but he looks baller) and the two subterranean uprisings each with a primus. So far I love the list, it has all the teeth of your usual CID with the addition of 50 obsec bodies and 2 obsec trucks. I really don't think the cult insurrection detachment is the only way to go. I mean, feth, last game I played I only managed one 6 result on the cult ambush table despite rolling 25 dice. That is the key reason why I am not a fan of the detachment, you pay such a high tax for the core choices while losing obsec for some tertiary benefits, all while really looking for the alpha strike. If your ambush rolls suck you can really start the game with a foot in the hole in certain missions. The goliath truck is amazing for 50 points, I don't fault anyone who refuses to purchase one though, they are a massive rip off.
BTW numbers beyond counting DOES suck with MSU. It's comically easy to prevent returning to shadows but lets ignore that and focus on the fact that your assuming 5 guardsmen will survive enemy attention, good players will focus them down pretty easily, it's a major rooky move 9/10 times to return to shadows with a single model or 2 anyway, these are the units you should be using in your turn to soak overwatch. It's the only way around things like cognis flamers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/04 04:25:52
Just brought Neophyte Hybrid Armoured Claw! I think bring in a leman russ in the list for more firepower aid by heavy weapon team on back of Chimera for full BS shots. Have to use all type of weapon - 2x mining laser, pie size Battle Cannon , summon aberrant, mining heavy weapons and everything with render claw I got at knight and save few for the rest of enemy's minions... I shouldn't depend on roll a 6 for ambush roll but have it stand by for a surprised luck.
The tactic is depend on how ambush roll.
If I got free shot roll, I shall use it all on enemy minions for first blood.
If I got first turn and got massive luck on roll of 6. I shall use it to charge the knight. Halt knight use it main weapon but taste their D-weapon melee or flatten by stomp! At least we got to get hull point down..
If I got first go and no luck in ambush roll at all, at least I got two tanks standby... if go second, crying.
2017/04/07 16:06:18
Subject: Tactic advice for Genestealer cult vs imperial knight
