Sounds like 40k is getting AoSed

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**Commissar Benny**

Quickjager wrote:
Movement values are going to be HUGE. I look forward to them.

Can you elaborate what this means in terms of gameplay? I don't play AoS but my assumption is that instead of infantry moving 6" or w/e, they are going to have different/varying movement values? Like Eldar would be able to move farther on foot than say guardsmen? Wouldn't this complicate the ruleset further (not that I mind)?

**Commissar Benny**

Morale

"Its no longer all or nothing, and it affects everyone. We’re thinking of replacing break tests with a simple mechanic. Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties."

So lets say I have a squad of 50 conscripts with a Commissar, lose 25 of them to enemy shooting and make a leadership test. Roll a 1 + 25 (-9 from Commissar), so I take an additional 17 casualties? hahaha NO. Lets hope its a little more complicated than that, otherwise Orks/Nids/Guard can just sit out 8th edition.

**Commissar Benny**

Jbz` wrote:
Commissar Benny wrote:
Morale

"Its no longer all or nothing, and it affects everyone. We’re thinking of replacing break tests with a simple mechanic. Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties."

So lets say I have a squad of 50 conscripts with a Commissar, lose 25 of them to enemy shooting and make a leadership test. Roll a 1 + 25 (-9 from Commissar), so I take an additional 17 casualties? hahaha NO. Lets hope its a little more complicated than that, otherwise Orks/Nids/Guard can just sit out 8th edition.

I am happy that I'd no longer lose an entire massive squad when 1 dude that they failed to hurt sweeping advances the entire squad after killing one of my guys and them bolting.

That is an improvement I agree, but the way the new morale is suggested is concerning to say the least. At a glance, it appears to be designed with smaller more elite forces in mind (space marines) and ignores how absolutely devastating this would be to horde armies. Again, perhaps there is more to it than what we are seeing here but if this is what goes live it will basically shut out Orks, Nids & Guard for another edition "again".

**Commissar Benny**

timwrightii wrote:
I see a lot of concerns in this thread about GW getting it wrong from the start and while that is fair I feel most of those concerns are coming from people that haven't been involved in the AOS side of things and seeing what this new community involved GW is all about.

This isn't the same GW from a few years ago, heck, its not even the same GW from when AOS launched. GW has become responsive and adaptive. They are asking for and responding to feedback from the community. They are inviting community leaders in for advice on how point things and create effective scenarios.

Not convinced? I don't blame you. But as an example of this new GW just look at one of there recent posts on the AOS community site. They are going to be featuring a 3rd party army builder on their site. No cease and desist, no lawyers, but rather they embraced it. This is also after they just came out with a paid version of an army building feature in their own AOS app. If that doesn't give you some hope for the future than nothing will.

I hope you are correct, I really do. The only way we will know for sure is if GW actually addresses point costs at the start of 8th. If they don't all of this is for nothing. New rulebook won't solve it. Formations won't solve it. Point costs are one of the sole balancing mechanics that exist in the game and right now some units are under priced by literally hundreds of points. Other units are so overpriced that just fielding them could likely decide the outcome of the game before either player has taken their first turn. There are units who haven't seen a point cost revaluation in nearly a decade. Other units that were terrible to begin with & no one used had their point costs doubled. GW needs to sit and down really math hammer what every unit in the game is worth. FW as well for that matter. Many of those models rules are 10-15 years old.

**Commissar Benny**

Latest rumor here: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/04/8th-edition-rumors.html

I'm having a hard time believing they are going to get rid of templates. How else are you going to measure scatter ordinance etc? Does it just auto-hit & roll D6 hits? That wouldn't work at all.

Nor do I believe vehicle armor is gone. The way its described, small arms can now damage heavily armored vehicles but they have multiple wounds? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having armor in the first place? To negate small arms fire?

If infantry can charge from any transport, what is the point in open topped assault vehicles? So since normal transports will have double digit wounds and infantry can assault directly out of them, can we expect most of 8th will be mass transports rushing forward followed by assault in which they will get first attack since initiative won't come into play until the 2nd round of assault?

I'm sorry but all of this sounds pretty

**Commissar Benny**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Commissar Benny wrote:
Latest rumor here: http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/04/8th-edition-rumors.html

I'm having a hard time believing they are going to get rid of templates. How else are you going to measure scatter ordinance etc? Does it just auto-hit & roll D6 hits?

Nor do I believe vehicle armor is gone.

If infantry can charge from any transport, what is the point in open topped assault vehicles?

Have you looked at AoS warscrolls? Automatic Xd6 hits pretty much exactly how AoS handles "Blast" type effects.

I think it's sad that AVs are going away, if only because Dreads, etc. don't deserve to be on par with MCs.

GW will (and should) remove a number of unnecessary distinctions, so that's fine. The game never really needed them anyways, given that GW wants the game to be about who has the prettiest models, not who can remember the most detailed rules arcana.

I'm just skeptical as to how they will be able to make it work. I can see if working great for some stuff, not so great for others. Like take hellhound torrent flamers for example. Even if my opponent spaces out his infantry conservatively I can usually make it hit 4-6 models. If its changed to a D6 roll, that is a net loss for that unit & will make it difficult to field.

On the other hand, grenade launchers on infantry will be king. 5pts for 24" D6 wound weapon. Yeah that sounds amazing.

I could see vehicles working like Azreal described "There's plenty of other ways to represent that, armour saves, immunity to fire with a characteristic < or > than X, an ability to regenerate wounds etc etc". I just think it would be ridiculous if all of sudden S3-6 weapons were all the sudden glancing/penetrating leman russes. Would entirely defeat the purpose of a tank to begin with.

**Commissar Benny**

Zatsuku wrote:
Why would you assume Heldrakes or Grenade Launchers would be remotely the same? If we are believing this rumour then codices are gone and warscrolls are replacing them, so nothing has to be the same as now. Not to mention it could be things like 1d3 or 1d6+1 instead of straight up d6.

Its hard to make any assumptions at this point but if templates are going away it would make sense that all template weapons will be resolved via D6. Maybe you are right, maybe flame template weapons will be resolved on 2D6 and you take the highest roll of the two. Perhaps grenade launchers/missile launchers will be D3 who knows. While codices may be going away, I think most weapons will still function in a similar manner that they do now.