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Ok, so I was just brainstorming, and thinking to myself, "could I use markerlights of another Tau player"
Here is how this would in theory be possible: I use Cyclopia Cabal to take control of a unit with maker light capability, I them make them shoot at something I want dead. I then use the Tzeentch power to take control of another Tau unit and expend marker lights to have that unit shoot at higher ballistic skill. I rad the Tau input and it really doesn't say anything that would prevent this that I can tell.

Would this work?

 redleger wrote:
Ok, so I was just brainstorming, and thinking to myself, "could I use markerlights of another Tau player"
Here is how this would in theory be possible: I use Cyclopia Cabal to take control of a unit with maker light capability, I them make them shoot at something I want dead. I then use the Tzeentch power to take control of another Tau unit and expend marker lights to have that unit shoot at higher ballistic skill. I rad the Tau input and it really doesn't say anything that would prevent this that I can tell.

Would this work?

Possibly. It largely depends on the specific rules for that Power.

When I saw the post, I thought it might be for a 3+-way game, but in this consideration you aren't trying to bend the rules of the markerlight like I thought before I read the details.

I assume that when you take control of the units, they become your units for one shooting action?

Yes, both powers basically work the same. Take control of unit and immediately shoot with them.

Yeah, this is possible.
The Tau markerlight related special rule does not even say friendly Tau units, just that units with the Tau Empire Faction can use those markerlights and that the markerlights disappear at the end of the phase or when used.
So yeah, seems like a ton of fun to do and totally legit.

That is how I read it as well. Just wanted a second opinion.

I'm gonna take the fact that none of the usual lawyers are saying no that this is indeed legal.

this is hilarious, please let us know if you pull this off

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
this is hilarious, please let us know if you pull this off

I'm gonna try. Gotta get me a Tau opponent. Everyone is scared of Magnus right now.

Bonus points for making a stormsurge fire a D missile at another stormsurge or a riptide :p

I don't see any issue with this. Seems legit

 Jackal wrote:
Bonus points for making a stormsurge fire a D missile at another stormsurge or a riptide :p

I am not sure about the Cabal power, but Treason of Tzeentch cannot be used to fire one-use-only weapons. I don't remember if that is in its rule or an FAQ, but I am almost positive you cannot do this.
Anyone able to find that ruling?

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 Arlen wrote:
Yeah, this is possible.
The Tau markerlight related special rule does not even say friendly Tau units, just that units with the Tau Empire Faction can use those markerlights and that the markerlights disappear at the end of the phase or when used.
So yeah, seems like a ton of fun to do and totally legit.

So hold up, if two Tau armies are fighting each other, they can swipe each other's marketing? Seems like turn order would decide who wins that fight.

I definitely wish there was a power like this available to loyalists, but I am fine with traitors having a cool trick. I am not completely familiar with how Riptides work, but couldn't you mess with their ability to use their Nova Reactor effectively?

(I double checked, it doesn't work that way).

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So hold up, if two Tau armies are fighting each other, they can swipe each other's marketing? Seems like turn order would decide who wins that fight.

I definitely wish there was a power like this available to loyalists, but I am fine with traitors having a cool trick. I am not completely familiar with how Riptides work, but couldn't you mess with their ability to use their Nova Reactor effectively?

Considering Marker lights can be expending in the same phase that they are used, I don't see this as an issue.
Example:
Player A fires Marker lights in his shooting phase. Then uses all of them
In Player B's turn, there are no marker lights for him to "steal"

On the Nova Reactor, that is done at eh beginning of the Tau turn, so even if you take control of it, you cannot interact with it's reactor at all. However, if the Tau player has used the Nova for Ripple fire, you would be able to use that as well.

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 Galef wrote:
I don't see any issue with this. Seems legit

 Jackal wrote:
Bonus points for making a stormsurge fire a D missile at another stormsurge or a riptide :p

I am not sure about the Cabal power, but Treason of Tzeentch cannot be used to fire one-use-only weapons. I don't remember if that is in its rule or an FAQ, but I am almost positive you cannot do this.
Anyone able to find that ruling?

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I never seen this is this a house rule?

Oldmike wrote:

Spoiler:

 Galef wrote:
I don't see any issue with this. Seems legit

 Jackal wrote:
Bonus points for making a stormsurge fire a D missile at another stormsurge or a riptide :p

I am not sure about the Cabal power, but Treason of Tzeentch cannot be used to fire one-use-only weapons. I don't remember if that is in its rule or an FAQ, but I am almost positive you cannot do this.
Anyone able to find that ruling?

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I never seen this is this a house rule?

It isn't a house rule. I know 100% it was a GW rule at some point, but it may have been in the FAQ draft. I'll have to find it.

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I remember that discussion coming up before about the Stormsurge too. Maybe do a forum search in YMDC for stormsurge and it'll pop up again.

However I remember it was something along the lines of "you can't use markerlights created from a unit under Treason of Tzeentch to fire seeker missiles, but can fire off seeker missiles manually"

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I remember that discussion coming up before about the Stormsurge too. Maybe do a forum search in YMDC for stormsurge and it'll pop up again.

However I remember it was something along the lines of "you can't use markerlights created from a unit under Treason of Tzeentch to fire seeker missiles, but can fire off seeker missiles manually"

Which no longer applies, as Seeker Missiles have been fired manually for years now. They only fired off of Marklights in the 3rd and 4th ed codices.

 Charistoph wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I remember that discussion coming up before about the Stormsurge too. Maybe do a forum search in YMDC for stormsurge and it'll pop up again.

However I remember it was something along the lines of "you can't use markerlights created from a unit under Treason of Tzeentch to fire seeker missiles, but can fire off seeker missiles manually"

Which no longer applies, as Seeker Missiles have been fired manually for years now. They only fired off of Marklights in the 3rd and 4th ed codices.

You might wanna check the Tau Codex again, Page 122, Markerlight, Seeker section.

This gives me something useful to use against tau with GSC =D

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I remember that discussion coming up before about the Stormsurge too. Maybe do a forum search in YMDC for stormsurge and it'll pop up again.

However I remember it was something along the lines of "you can't use markerlights created from a unit under Treason of Tzeentch to fire seeker missiles, but can fire off seeker missiles manually"

Which no longer applies, as Seeker Missiles have been fired manually for years now. They only fired off of Marklights in the 3rd and 4th ed codices.

You might wanna check the Tau Codex again, Page 122, Markerlight, Seeker section.

You mean where a Seeker is fired with a buff from the carrying Transport instead of another unit just using up the Markerlight? Yeah, that one.

 Charistoph wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I remember that discussion coming up before about the Stormsurge too. Maybe do a forum search in YMDC for stormsurge and it'll pop up again.

However I remember it was something along the lines of "you can't use markerlights created from a unit under Treason of Tzeentch to fire seeker missiles, but can fire off seeker missiles manually"

Which no longer applies, as Seeker Missiles have been fired manually for years now. They only fired off of Marklights in the 3rd and 4th ed codices.

You might wanna check the Tau Codex again, Page 122, Markerlight, Seeker section.

You mean where a Seeker is fired with a buff from the carrying Transport instead of another unit just using up the Markerlight? Yeah, that one.

I have no idea what you're talking about but I was refering to firing a seeker missile by expending a markerlight counter, which is what the Seeker option does.

My original post meant that, if I remember correctly, the rule being discussed was that the unit could still fire the seeker missiles normally like any other weapon it is carrying, but could not use the Seeker option from the Markerlight to buff the seeker missile (so giving the Seeker Missile BS5, Ignores cover, no line of sight, etc.).

I know you like to split hairs in YMDC but I'm just trying to help Galef find the thread referencing it.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
..... I'm just trying to help Galef find the thread referencing it.

Which I still haven't found, despite trying several key words in the search tool.

It's clearly not in the Tau codex
Nor in the BRB under "one-use-only"
Nor in the Treason of Tzeentch power rules
It may be in the Cyclopean Cabal rule, I don't have that book, so I don't know.

I've searched the FAQ's (though I might have missed it)
The best I can think of is that this was part of the Draft FAQ and is no longer a thing. So apparently, you indeed can take control of a Stormsurge and blow all of its Missiles.
Taking temporary control of it is one thing, but that just doesn't seem fair. Like...at all.

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Neither treason of tzeentch nor shroud of deceit have any stipulations on what may or may not be fired. You simply make a shooting attack.
The markerlights just require that a unit from Codex:Tau Empire use them, which is the case when using either power. There is no way to benefit from markers as a non tau unit, though you could use shroud of deceit to mark and then use those markers with allied tau units.

Corrupt machine from heretech has an exception. That doesn't allow you to use one use only/one shot only weapons or bombs. Maybe you're thinking of that.

 Galef wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
..... I'm just trying to help Galef find the thread referencing it.

Which I still haven't found, despite trying several key words in the search tool.

It's clearly not in the Tau codex
Nor in the BRB under "one-use-only"
Nor in the Treason of Tzeentch power rules
It may be in the Cyclopean Cabal rule, I don't have that book, so I don't know.

I've searched the FAQ's (though I might have missed it)
The best I can think of is that this was part of the Draft FAQ and is no longer a thing. So apparently, you indeed can take control of a Stormsurge and blow all of its Missiles.
Taking temporary control of it is one thing, but that just doesn't seem fair. Like...at all.

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Cyclopean Cabal's "Shroud of Deceit" rule just you can "immediately make a shooting attack with that unit as though it were part of your army." (exact words). No other stipulations. The only other rule it has is the channeling thing which doesn't affect who you control.

The only stipulation in treason of tzeentch is you can't shoot one use only weapons that have already been expended. You can shoot them off as long as they are. Still waiting on a Tau opponent to use this on but I hope it goes off and I make him cry.


Edit: I know I read that somewhere, but now I can't find it.