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Hey mates. Am looking to do a Black Templar army, but would prefer to try and utilize one to where I can play it in both 30k and 40k. With that being said, what Armor Type seems the most likely for the BT's to have when they where first founded. The Mark III, the Mark IV or something else?

At the time of the horus heresy, theyre a subset of the imperial fists:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Imperial-Fists-Legion-Templar-Brethren-Upgrade-Set?_requestid=3853569

They're shown assembled with mkiii "generic" bits.

The Warmaster Horus made sure all the Legions loyal to him received the best equipment and support at the start of the Heresy. Which is why all the Traitor Legions all had MK IV and above armor. By the time he reached Terra and laid siege to the Imperial Palace, the Loyalists had been scrambling to hastily upgrade their armor. The Imperial Fists at this time had a mixture of MK II, MK III, and MK V armor.

If you are trying to be true to the fluff, the Black Templar didn't exist in 30K- they were Imperial Fists. During the Horus Heresy, only up to MK VI Power Armor (Corvis) was available, but only the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion had it. You could probably use it for Preators/Centurions/Consuls as a type of Artificer Armor, but really no Legions (except the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion) should have a higher armor then MK V. Most Space Marines in 40K are wearing MK VII and MK VIII Power Armor with the double aquila on the chest- a symbol that was not adopted by the Imperium until after the Heresy.

The Imperial Fists Legion Templar Brethren are their elite squads in 30K- basically a Vet Squad with different wargear options and if you take the appropriate Rite of War, get some bonuses.

As far as using such an army in 30K and 40K- you could, but it probably wouldn't be a very good army. All the really good 30K wargear and vehicles don't exist in 40K, and 30K doesn't use formations or detachments the way 40K does. What's good in 30K doesn't exist in 40K, and what's good in 40K doesn't exist in 30K. That's the rub. You'll end up with two armies- one for 30K, another for 40K.

Yeah, trying to build a dual force will probably end up being 2 meh lists.

as for making a black templar-like army for 40k, you would wanna go Imperial fists (obviously )

they get to reroll 1's to hit in challenges, and can take Templar Brethren (precursors to the Black Templars) and Sigismund (the first High Marshal). From there go with lots of templar squads, chaplains, apothecaries, legion champions, etc.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Warmaster Horus made sure all the Legions loyal to him received the best equipment and support at the start of the Heresy. Which is why all the Traitor Legions all had MK IV and above armor. By the time he reached Terra and laid siege to the Imperial Palace, the Loyalists had been scrambling to hastily upgrade their armor. The Imperial Fists at this time had a mixture of MK II, MK III, and MK V armor.

If you are trying to be true to the fluff, the Black Templar didn't exist in 30K- they were Imperial Fists. During the Horus Heresy, only up to MK VI Power Armor (Corvis) was available, but only the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion had it. You could probably use it for Preators/Centurions/Consuls as a type of Artificer Armor, but really no Legions (except the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion) should have a higher armor then MK V. Most Space Marines in 40K are wearing MK VII and MK VIII Power Armor with the double aquila on the chest- a symbol that was not adopted by the Imperium until after the Heresy.

The Imperial Fists Legion Templar Brethren are their elite squads in 30K- basically a Vet Squad with different wargear options and if you take the appropriate Rite of War, get some bonuses.

As far as using such an army in 30K and 40K- you could, but it probably wouldn't be a very good army. All the really good 30K wargear and vehicles don't exist in 40K, and 30K doesn't use formations or detachments the way 40K does. What's good in 30K doesn't exist in 40K, and what's good in 40K doesn't exist in 30K. That's the rub. You'll end up with two armies- one for 30K, another for 40K.

Im pretty sure they updated the books, so the Imperial Fists had plenty of Mk IV armor, particularly if the Phalanx Warders are anything to go by. Also I believe in Mechanicum the reprint has them pulling MK VI off the world rather than the older version of the story where it was Mk IV. So Maximus pattern has been in service longer than the originally thought they were gonna have it be.

Like wise, Mk II and III aren't limited by having helmets where you cant turn your head anymore.

Imperial Fists, being the Sentinels of Terra would likely have all Mks up to and including limited numbers of Mk VII (from what I've been told, its likely Prototype Mk VII), what they wouldn't really have is Mk V, except those that ended up in Ultramar after Phall who might have it. Though they probably just receive replacement Mk IV from the Ultramarines.

Oh and the Templar Brethren do not have a RoW from which they directly gain benefits, nor do they get the Shield Wall bonus from Stone Gauntlet as they get Combat Shields, not Boarding or Storm Shields. What they do get though, is to be taken as Troops if Sigismund is in the Army, and if the Hammerfall Strike Force is taken as a RoW they can be upgraded to deepstrike.

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Hey mates. Am looking to do a Black Templar army, but would prefer to try and utilize one to where I can play it in both 30k and 40k. With that being said, what Armor Type seems the most likely for the BT's to have when they where first founded. The Mark III, the Mark IV or something else?

So you're going to run a lot of Templar Brethren?

I prefer MKIII for those guys. And, apparently, so does Forge World as their Templar Brethren are all in MKIII.