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With so many fandexes and such kicking around the Proposed Rules forum, I was wondering who has actually played with or against a homebrew codex or unit? What were the scope of the changes; was it minor tweaking of existing rules or completely new stuff? How did the games go? Was it fun? Would you play with the homebrew again? Would you allow it as official? Any memorable stories?

Personally I haven't played with or against any, but I'm still very new to wargaming so I haven't really had an opportunity.

Having rarely played against something heavily home-brewed I've looked at a lot of fan-dex style materials and they're about 90% crap. This is primarily because of the nature of their authors, often young and power hungry. They just become "Look at this LeMan Russ version, which because of fluff has more armour...and double cannons...and the gravity on their homeworld is so much that all my guardsman have toughness and strength 4 and need power armour to survive the environment...and they have Titans at half cost because they have a forgeworld there..."

Basically a complete power-hungry lack of substance, far too often aimed at buffing an existing army/force, rather than realistically changing it or balancing it, etc.

The real interest in any force (unless you're a super competitive gamer) is not its strength but the balance or juxtaposition of strength vs. weaknesses. Generally a good rule of thumb when adjusting something is to add something, and subtract something. Now, sadly that doesn't exist much at all in real 40K codices or rules sets, so younger players often have zero ideas to go off in that direction.

If I see a fan codex I want it to either more accurately regard the fluff/lore, or to present an intriguing mix of penalty/bonus. If it's well done and reasonable - I'm all for it. We frequently make up rules/adjustments/units for various games we play (and we never really play 40K nowdays). If you're making up new 40K units it's also better to err on the side of being points-expensive vs. cheaper. When in doubt, add a few points.

Yep. Steer clear.

Slight house rules are probably fine, like I probably wouldn't need to think long about someone who wanted to swap in X FW kit in a regular formation because they love the model and it basically fits.

But, other than that, nah, I'd probably say "that's cool, but can you run it as a proxy instead?" 40k has a vast amount of options, and while the game's hardly balanced, it's at least something officially sanctioned. For instance, with a SM character, when you take in to account the free Badab armies, there are like 25 chapters' worth of variant rules and probably 50+ characters representing anything from special sergeants to esoteric commanders- there's really nothing there that approximates what you want to run? Same goes for humans or eldar (both to lesser extents) once you factor in combined list types. With multiple detachments and a lot of free-form choices, I think there's not much excuse these days.

Having run into it multiple times over my involvement with a hobby, it's been very rare to encounter ones that are actually well done and reasonable. "This is the special main tyranid hive fleet that has finally arrived in the galaxy, and because they are the true tyranids, their powers are-."

So in a pick up game, never. I've played a few times with friends where I knew about the stuff beforehand and it actually seemed reasonable, but I'm not a fan.

We had similiar thread couple of months ago, so for starters I'll cite exactly what I wrote then:

"I would never even suggest using my homebrew Exodites to a complete stranger. Simply because proving again and again, before and during a game, that all those "pesky special rules" are there for a perfect mathematical and thematical reasons, and that everything is playtested and calculated to be inline with reasonable power-level-per-point units from multiple codices isn't really the best way to spend my weekend."

And as you can already see from other responses, the biggest issue with playing with homebrew rules/units/scenarios is convincing people that you have good reasons for them and what you're proposing is mutual fun. This is why homebrews are best played with friends and not in a FLGS pick up style 40K.

That said, I don't really have any reason for playing with or against official Tyranids anymore, because I have a ton of fun playing with and against extensively rewritten ones.

@spirallingcadaver: not all fluffy combinations/units/armies can be reasonably constructed as proxies. For instance, there are no FMC cavalry rules available, which are necessary for some Eldar Exodites ideas. Another reason is that when playing proxy armies, you are basically playing a re-skinned, well known faction, with exact same playstyle. This is not what GOOD homebrews are about for me - I homebrew because I want to recreate some fluffy/interesting/distinct playstyle ideas and not just find an excuse to field some converted models. And as I wrote above, some factions just desperately need rewriting to be fun to play with at all. But as I said, sensible homebrewing is an "expert mode" of 40K to ensure fun for everyone involved.

I've only done some fandex (which was discussed before hand) for a narrative campaign at my FFG. Good on paper, OP as heck on TT. I wouldn't do it again.

I've only played with my own a few times against my friends. Consensus among them is that I grossly overestimate the power of some things and that I get too flowery with rule descriptions.

depends how much the homebrew chapter is. I played a guy who wanted to us his homebrew which was codex marines with chapter tactic "in the darkness" or something lieke that. every model had stealth, those with stealth upgraded to shrouded. it was a nice painted army black with dark and medium grey camo paint job. was not trying to stack with any other chapter tactic and every point value and weapon profile stayed the same.. party on we had a fun game. his 2+ cover scouts in ruins were rough but it seemed like a fair chapter tactic

If a person shows up with a whole new codex with new point costs, new special rules and everything has changed... pass

**add

one particularly bad one I saw was "truescale marines"

chapter master was toughness 8, sergeants were toughness 7, space marines were toughness 6. but don't worry a WS/BS5 S6 T6 I6 A3 L10 W3 3+ tactical marine cost 20 points instead of 14 everything has about a 25-40% point increase. he was quite annoyed that nobody was willing to bother playing it.

nou wrote:
@spirallingcadaver: not all fluffy combinations/units/armies can be reasonably constructed as proxies. For instance, there are no FMC cavalry rules available, which are necessary for some Eldar Exodites ideas. Another reason is that when playing proxy armies, you are basically playing a re-skinned, well known faction, with exact same playstyle. This is not what GOOD homebrews are about for me - I homebrew because I want to recreate some fluffy/interesting/distinct playstyle ideas and not just find an excuse to field some converted models. And as I wrote above, some factions just desperately need rewriting to be fun to play with at all. But as I said, sensible homebrewing is an "expert mode" of 40K to ensure fun for everyone involved.

First, there are plenty of lesser-known factions.

Second, between all the various iterations of jetbikes, character jetbikes,jump characters, flyers, skimmers, monstrous creatures, jump titans from 5(?) army lists, yeah, you might not hit exactly what you're looking for, but there should be something.

Third, maybe your codex is awesome, but that assumes: you're competent at writing rules; you're competent at playtesting rules; you have opponents who are willing to play with those rules several times at minimum; they can provide good feedback; you're all unbiased; a new opponent trusts all of that and is willing to learn a new army.

It's just not worth it. It's like pulling teeth trying to play with FW half the time, and those are official.

Had a mate who did one for Characters that have disappeared from Codex's over the years.

That was enjoyable

GodDamUser wrote:
Had a mate who did one for Characters that have disappeared from Codex's over the years.

That was enjoyable

THAT sounds cool and Kronk approves.

Otherwise, FanDex makes Kronk rage like time Kronk SMASH finger in car door! Stupid Car door!

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

nou wrote:
@spirallingcadaver: not all fluffy combinations/units/armies can be reasonably constructed as proxies. For instance, there are no FMC cavalry rules available, which are necessary for some Eldar Exodites ideas. Another reason is that when playing proxy armies, you are basically playing a re-skinned, well known faction, with exact same playstyle. This is not what GOOD homebrews are about for me - I homebrew because I want to recreate some fluffy/interesting/distinct playstyle ideas and not just find an excuse to field some converted models. And as I wrote above, some factions just desperately need rewriting to be fun to play with at all. But as I said, sensible homebrewing is an "expert mode" of 40K to ensure fun for everyone involved.

First, there are plenty of lesser-known factions.

Second, between all the various iterations of jetbikes, character jetbikes,jump characters, flyers, skimmers, monstrous creatures, jump titans from 5(?) army lists, yeah, you might not hit exactly what you're looking for, but there should be something.

Third, maybe your codex is awesome, but that assumes: you're competent at writing rules; you're competent at playtesting rules; you have opponents who are willing to play with those rules several times at minimum; they can provide good feedback; you're all unbiased; a new opponent trusts all of that and is willing to learn a new army.

It's just not worth it. It's like pulling teeth trying to play with FW half the time, and those are official.

Funnily enough, your reply is very similiar to one I got in previous thread, and illustrates exactly why homebrewing is better kept amongst well known, like-minded friends.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
depends how much the homebrew chapter is. I played a guy who wanted to us his homebrew which was codex marines with chapter tactic "in the darkness" or something lieke that. every model had stealth, those with stealth upgraded to shrouded. it was a nice painted army black with dark and medium grey camo paint job. was not trying to stack with any other chapter tactic and every point value and weapon profile stayed the same.. party on we had a fun game. his 2+ cover scouts in ruins were rough but it seemed like a fair chapter tactic

If a person shows up with a whole new codex with new point costs, new special rules and everything has changed... pass

**add

one particularly bad one I saw was "truescale marines"

chapter master was toughness 8, sergeants were toughness 7, space marines were toughness 6. but don't worry a WS/BS5 S6 T6 I6 A3 L10 W3 3+ tactical marine cost 20 points instead of 14 everything has about a 25-40% point increase. he was quite annoyed that nobody was willing to bother playing it.

Sounds like he got his hands on the old "Movie Marines" list and updated it for the current edition.

Yeah that list was explicitly overpowered and was only suppose to be used in good fun.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
but don't worry a WS/BS5 S6 T6 I6 A3 L10 W3 3+ tactical marine cost 20 points instead of 14

So that makes Ogryn worth about 16 points? Okay


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've never played against homebrew, but just reading some of the absolute trash that pops up on here makes me want to stay as far away from it as possible. It's all either broken OP, overly complicated (give unit special rules for the sake of having special rules), or just plain lazy. If one of my best friends asked me if he could try a homebrew, I'd maybe consider playing against it after I read through it, and only if there isn't a way to just proxy stuff and there aren't a ton of changes and rules bloat and potential cheese. It just seems like a lot of work for something that probably won't be fun.

On top of that, getting people to agree to even houserules is hard at my store. Tried to talk some people into letting my rough riders take carapace armor for 3 ppm (normally 1.5 ppm) and they said they think it'll be overpowered. Yet they're fine with me paying 6 points to get 2 wounds, 6+ FNP, reroll dangerous, and +1 WS and A if I'm willing to use DKoK rules (would require me to run 2 units instead of 1).

I'm suddenly reminded of... shoot, they were dakka famous a long time ago, for being _sure_ that their homebrew new alien species codex was going to be officially released by GW. Some sort of gasbag aliens that essentially farted their way across the battlefield.

And that is why I never open a conversation with, 'hey, wanna see the reeeealy cool new alien codex I invented!'

 Bookwrack wrote:
I'm suddenly reminded of... shoot, they were dakka famous a long time ago, for being _sure_ that their homebrew new alien species codex was going to be officially released by GW. Some sort of gasbag aliens that essentially farted their way across the battlefield.

I'm just imagining an army of aliens that look like the Locust Airships from Gears of War haha

I've tried homebrewing stuff some lime ago and even playtested it with good results.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/584700.page
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646620.page

It's all about orks. Changes seemed reasonable back than. Now it'd be quite underpowered.

Also, we're tried out some heavy restrictions from here
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/721174.page

Was quite fun. Will definitely play more till 8-th arrives and than we'll see.