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So do you guys think the Gladius Strike Force Double Demi formation, with all the free transports, will survive into 8th edition?

We don't know. Until the core rulebook goes out, there's only speculation.

If I have to take a guess, I'd say the formations as we know will either have rules for use in the "general's handbook" (as they'll probably call the rulebook) or will limed away.

At this point anything is possible. It's even possible that the entire concept of Formations will be gone.

As someone who has had armies enduring through since 3rd edition, lemme tell you that if you're hoping your army will remain unchanged and still function as well as you have them now, you're in for a surprise. I thought my Carnifex would endure the editions, then 5th edition slapped it in the face. I also thought my khorne berserkers would remain as powerful as they did in 3.5, then the rulebook started nerfing charging left and right, and removing charging out of non-open topped/assault vehicles.

If 8th really is an overhaul as it's rumored to be, I would expect Formations not to make it through to the other side in their current form. But as is said above, it's all just speculation.

Short answer: No, not in that form. I think the formations will still be there, but they're going to cost points just like in AoS.

500 Points of free Razorbacks ain't that great if you had to pay 600 points for the formation (as it also provides some other advantages, that's where the remaining 100 points come from).

I really hope the next edition will do a 3rd-style simplification. We have far too many random useless crap floating around (like, what's the point of having a universal rules section in the core rulebook when everything remotely unique has to have a whole paragraph dedicated to explaining a new rule?).

I don't think formations will go away, as they are a means for the company to liquidate stock. The current ones may disappear, but they will probably be replaced by buffing whatever models they have piled high.

I like the space marine demcompany galdius doohicky formation. Its powerful but not over powered, and more importantly, its fluffy.

So many games I have plyed space marines who are footslogging it around or just standing still as deterants or just a lone solider shooting (5 man squad with 1 special). But with the Demi, the free transports allow me to do two things I always wanted to. Drop pods everywhere!! And infantry support. The MEQ has become relativly fragile and not gone down much in points. With free razorbacks and drop pods, you can take larger squads of marines and play them the way they are supposed to be played. Fast, sudden surigal strikes of heavily armed and arourmed soldiers who rely mostly on their advanced weapons and good chance to hit.

Another fluffy formation/detachment Cadian. Awesome, powerful but not broken. Its benefits like the Galdius, are good for gameplay and fluffy.

All the Traitor Legion detachments are for the most party fluffy, fun and even competitive. These are how all the armies factions should work. Core Army, then subset factions which play a little differently and have different rules with benfits and restrictions. I think GW hit the nail on the head with that book.

Now they just need to do that for all the armies. Easier said than done.... Lets cross our fingers for Orks and Tyranids to get their own soon...

definatly agree that formations likely won't go away but we may see some revisions along the way. I'd look at the new Ultramarine Vitrix Strike force as likely a prototype for "gladius 2.0"

As other people have posted, I love the fact the double demi Gladius gets players playing the way the fluff describes.

I understand the current formation will likely not survive, but i hope there will be replacement mass transport encouragement for SM players

 Tsol wrote:
I don't think formations will go away, as they are a means for the company to liquidate stock. The current ones may disappear, but they will probably be replaced by buffing whatever models they have piled high.

I like the space marine demcompany galdius doohicky formation. Its powerful but not over powered, and more importantly, its fluffy.

So many games I have plyed space marines who are footslogging it around or just standing still as deterants or just a lone solider shooting (5 man squad with 1 special). But with the Demi, the free transports allow me to do two things I always wanted to. Drop pods everywhere!!

Yes, because them costing 35 points and being so crazy good wasn't incentive enough to play them before.

 Tsol wrote:
I don't think formations will go away, as they are a means for the company to liquidate stock. The current ones may disappear, but they will probably be replaced by buffing whatever models they have piled high.

I like the space marine demi company gladius doohickey formation. Its powerful but not over powered, and more importantly, its fluffy.

So many games I have played space marines who are footslogging it around or just standing still as deterrents or just a lone solider shooting (5 man squad with 1 special). But with the Demi, the free transports allow me to do two things I always wanted to. Drop pods everywhere!!

Not really, a "Battle company" of marines from a gladius tends to only have a Demi- company's worth of marines.
If they were forced to fill out the units to get the transports it would have been better.

morgoth wrote:

Yes, because them costing 35 points and being so crazy good wasn't incentive enough to play them before.

Couldn't agree more. Drop pods are ludicrously good for their cost.

On another, related point... how much should the Demi Company formation cost? How much value does it give

50 points?

If you had to pay... say... 150 points to take Gladius, which consisted of...

2 x Demi Company - 50 points each
1 x lib conclave - 30 points
1 x storm wing - 20 points

Is Gladius worth 150 points? 200 points?

How would you price these formations?

I wonder if it could change like some of the "mega battalions" in AOS: To get the free stuff you need to take all of the options.

So for example, you would have to field a command squad, 6 Tacticals, 2 Assault and 2 Devastator squads at max sizes in order to unlock free transports. An actual battle company.

The Gladius Strike Formation is one of the worst formations for the game. For simply taking the units you would normally take anyways, you get free transports. If every army had a similar formation, I wouldn't care. You are smoking crack if you think playing an 1,850 point ITC game with 2,200 points isn't game breaking.

Formations and detachments have ruined 40K. If they continue into 8th, then I hope they follow the AoS Warscrolls and cost points- and I'd say the Gladius would cost 200 points. That's about the cost of four Razorbacks, or six Rhino's/Drop Pods, and that seems fair to me.

AoS has allegiances- Order, Death, Chaos, Destruction. Then you have keywords on each warscroll (the page of rules for each model in your army), like Orruk, Hero, Wizard, Ironjawz. Certain rules only apply if your model has that key word. For example, Gordrakk, the Fist of Gork, has the keywords Destruction, Orruk, Maw-Krusha, Ironjawz, Monster, Hero, Megaboss, Gordrakk. He has a host of special rules that only apply to Hero's, Wizards, Orruks, and Ironjawz. How do I know what the keywords are? At the bottom of the warscroll, it says "Keywords". Very clear, and unambiguous.

If Formations make it into 8th ed, I hope they cost points, and use the key word system GW has in AoS.

I hope formations in general, and anything that just gives free stuff, goes away with 8th. No idea what 8E may bring, but 7E cant go away fast enough and formations are a huge part of that.

I hope it is toast, I am really tired of my 1850 vs 2200+

Good rule for GW products; buy what you like and want to keep and assume they will become junk rule wise eventually.

I saw IW and oblit lists for sale at the start of 4th. I saw I saw so many paladin bricks for sale at the start of 6th along with leaf blower guard and Necron airforce. Then I saw farsight lists and eldar serpent spam sell off for 7th. I imagine I'll see battle companies for sale during 8th.

In short, anything that relies on a rules gimmick WILL be changed at some point. I don't think this game is like MTG where you spend on a competitive list for a short while. Buy what you like and think is cool because eventually, those models become good again anyway.

Considering in AOS anything that was once free now has to be paid for (summoning etc) id say goodbye to your free transports loyalist scum

 buddha wrote:
Good rule for GW products; buy what you like and want to keep and assume they will become junk rule wise eventually.

I saw IW and oblit lists for sale at the start of 4th. I saw I saw so many paladin bricks for sale at the start of 6th along with leaf blower guard and Necron airforce. Then I saw farsight lists and eldar serpent spam sell off for 7th. I imagine I'll see battle companies for sale during 8th.

In short, anything that relies on a rules gimmick WILL be changed at some point. I don't think this game is like MTG where you spend on a competitive list for a short while. Buy what you like and think is cool because eventually, those models become good again anyway.

I doubt Battle Companies will go on sale like that, but it's only because you can always bank on space marines to at least not suck. Then again, it's also probably because most people's Battle Companies weren't bought wholesale when it became the new thang; most people would realistically have almost that many marines anyways.

Vaktathi wrote:I hope formations in general, and anything that just gives free stuff, goes away with 8th. No idea what 8E may bring, but 7E cant go away fast enough and formations are a huge part of that.

I sincerely doubt we will see Formations removed from the game at all. They may be completely changed to something else, but I honestly believe they are here to stay for the duration.

Indeed, I do believe this is the course of action:

Wayniac wrote:I wonder if it could change like some of the "mega battalions" in AOS: To get the free stuff you need to take all of the options.

So for example, you would have to field a command squad, 6 Tacticals, 2 Assault and 2 Devastator squads at max sizes in order to unlock free transports. An actual battle company.

Is more likely, i.e. they will be closer to AoS groupings (I haven't kept up with the names), where a few units are combined for a couple small, but useful benefits.

plagueknight wrote:Considering in AOS anything that was once free now has to be paid for (summoning etc) id say goodbye to your free transports loyalist scum

Not entirely. You don't have to pay for anything in AoS, unless you and your opponent really want to. I rather hope this isn't used in 40K 8th, as it really turned people off of Age of Sigmar to the point of almost killing it off, locally. Only 8th Ed die-hards and 9th Age players kept up the local scene so that people were still interested in Fantasy when the General's Handbook came out the LGS' actually got copies of them and it started building up again.

Considering GW are still releasing new formations in supplements being released now, I would be very surprised if formations as a concept completely disappeared

The ongoing problem is that the power 7.5 edition dexes got power formations - so Tau, Eldar, Necrons and Marines

Pretty much everyone else got the finger.

Two ways to sort this:

if the power dexes had to pay for the OP units and then also pay for their OP formations than that would help.

If the other codexes all had a Gladius or similar and their units were brought up to the level of those in the power dexes .

Anything else is just pandering to the power dex players.

I think Formations should remain, purely as a method of structuring an army in a fluffy way, but I don't believe it should have any bonuses.

I take Formations personally because they're fluffy organisations of units, not for a gameplay bonus. If Formations lost all their abilities and were identical in bonus to a CAD, I'd still take them.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The ongoing problem is that the power 7.5 edition dexes got power formations - so Tau, Eldar, Necrons and Marines

Pretty much everyone else got the finger.

Two ways to sort this:

if the power dexes had to pay for the OP units and then also pay for their OP formations than that would help.

If the other codexes all had a Gladius or similar and their units were brought up to the level of those in the power dexes .

Anything else is just pandering to the power dex players.

Totally agree. Every faction should have a thematic power formation

Mr Morden wrote:The ongoing problem is that the power 7.5 edition dexes got power formations - so Tau, Eldar, Necrons and Marines

Pretty much everyone else got the finger.

Two ways to sort this:

if the power dexes had to pay for the OP units and then also pay for their OP formations than that would help.

If the other codexes all had a Gladius or similar and their units were brought up to the level of those in the power dexes .

Anything else is just pandering to the power dex players.

Or we see an AoS-style restructuring where all the units' stats are completely changed and each faction/group is given a small formation with very small bonuses to start from.

Sgt_Smudge wrote:I think Formations should remain, purely as a method of structuring an army in a fluffy way, but I don't believe it should have any bonuses.

I take Formations personally because they're fluffy organisations of units, not for a gameplay bonus. If Formations lost all their abilities and were identical in bonus to a CAD, I'd still take them.

Agreed. With some exceptions, the Formation lists weren't too bad, it is usually the Special Rules that came with them that caused breaking. And where Formation lists were bad, it is usually because of the individual units were also bad.

When a Formation gives better rules than CAD, you will see people taking Formations as much as they can.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Gladius Strike Formation is one of the worst formations for the game. For simply taking the units you would normally take anyways, you get free transports. If every army had a similar formation, I wouldn't care. You are smoking crack if you think playing an 1,850 point ITC game with 2,200 points isn't game breaking.

Formations and detachments have ruined 40K. If they continue into 8th, then I hope they follow the AoS Warscrolls and cost points- and I'd say the Gladius would cost 200 points. That's about the cost of four Razorbacks, or six Rhino's/Drop Pods, and that seems fair to me.

AoS has allegiances- Order, Death, Chaos, Destruction. Then you have keywords on each warscroll (the page of rules for each model in your army), like Orruk, Hero, Wizard, Ironjawz. Certain rules only apply if your model has that key word. For example, Gordrakk, the Fist of Gork, has the keywords Destruction, Orruk, Maw-Krusha, Ironjawz, Monster, Hero, Megaboss, Gordrakk. He has a host of special rules that only apply to Hero's, Wizards, Orruks, and Ironjawz. How do I know what the keywords are? At the bottom of the warscroll, it says "Keywords". Very clear, and unambiguous.

If Formations make it into 8th ed, I hope they cost points, and use the key word system GW has in AoS.

What game are you playing where you were taking tactical marines and razor backs and assault marines anyways?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Gladius Strike Formation is one of the worst formations for the game. For simply taking the units you would normally take anyways, you get free transports. If every army had a similar formation, I wouldn't care. You are smoking crack if you think playing an 1,850 point ITC game with 2,200 points isn't game breaking.

Formations and detachments have ruined 40K. If they continue into 8th, then I hope they follow the AoS Warscrolls and cost points- and I'd say the Gladius would cost 200 points. That's about the cost of four Razorbacks, or six Rhino's/Drop Pods, and that seems fair to me.

AoS has allegiances- Order, Death, Chaos, Destruction. Then you have keywords on each warscroll (the page of rules for each model in your army), like Orruk, Hero, Wizard, Ironjawz. Certain rules only apply if your model has that key word. For example, Gordrakk, the Fist of Gork, has the keywords Destruction, Orruk, Maw-Krusha, Ironjawz, Monster, Hero, Megaboss, Gordrakk. He has a host of special rules that only apply to Hero's, Wizards, Orruks, and Ironjawz. How do I know what the keywords are? At the bottom of the warscroll, it says "Keywords". Very clear, and unambiguous.

If Formations make it into 8th ed, I hope they cost points, and use the key word system GW has in AoS.

What game are you playing where you were taking tactical marines and razor backs and assault marines anyways?

This is why I like the gladius double demi- encourages marine players to take the standard units that people had long ago stopped bothering with

Mordian2016 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Gladius Strike Formation is one of the worst formations for the game. For simply taking the units you would normally take anyways, you get free transports. If every army had a similar formation, I wouldn't care. You are smoking crack if you think playing an 1,850 point ITC game with 2,200 points isn't game breaking.

Formations and detachments have ruined 40K. If they continue into 8th, then I hope they follow the AoS Warscrolls and cost points- and I'd say the Gladius would cost 200 points. That's about the cost of four Razorbacks, or six Rhino's/Drop Pods, and that seems fair to me.

AoS has allegiances- Order, Death, Chaos, Destruction. Then you have keywords on each warscroll (the page of rules for each model in your army), like Orruk, Hero, Wizard, Ironjawz. Certain rules only apply if your model has that key word. For example, Gordrakk, the Fist of Gork, has the keywords Destruction, Orruk, Maw-Krusha, Ironjawz, Monster, Hero, Megaboss, Gordrakk. He has a host of special rules that only apply to Hero's, Wizards, Orruks, and Ironjawz. How do I know what the keywords are? At the bottom of the warscroll, it says "Keywords". Very clear, and unambiguous.

If Formations make it into 8th ed, I hope they cost points, and use the key word system GW has in AoS.

What game are you playing where you were taking tactical marines and razor backs and assault marines anyways?

This is why I like the gladius double demi- encourages marine players to take the standard units that people had long ago stopped bothering with

having faced several gladius detachments... nope sorry, you are bringing 2200+ points to a 1850 games, unless it is a kill points game your opponent as at a huge disadvantage. you can incentivize the unit without giving free transports for a 5 man squad, no other army can spend 70 points on a unit and get a free 55 point transport. maybe a discount or an advantage sure. free 400 points though not the answer. I am all for ws or bs plus 1 or maybe 15 points off transports, free rhino if taking a 10 man squad or 15 point razorback. Gladius went too far in my opinion, maybe if they had excluded razorbacks it would have been tolerable