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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-and-terrified-in-chechnya/2017/04/09/b128822e-18a1-11e7-855e-4824bbb5d748_story.html?utm_term=.ba56c873b795

Quote that sums up the problem pretty well:

Mr. Kadyrov’s spokesman brushed off the report, saying no one in the republic is homosexual. “You cannot arrest or repress people who just don’t exist in the republic,” Alvi Karimov said to Interfax. “If such people existed in Chechnya, law enforcement would not have to worry about them since their own relatives would have sent them to where they could never return.”

So, remember that idea that Russia is a civilized country and not a backwards dictatorship run by murderous thugs? Not so much, apparently. And we shouldn't be at all concerned about Trump and friends having ties to Russia, or Russia interfering in our elections...

That is pretty sickening.

And we shouldn't be at all concerned about Trump and friends having ties to Russia

Oh, not this again

 Peregrine wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-and-terrified-in-chechnya/2017/04/09/b128822e-18a1-11e7-855e-4824bbb5d748_story.html?utm_term=.ba56c873b795

Quote that sums up the problem pretty well:

Mr. Kadyrov’s spokesman brushed off the report, saying no one in the republic is homosexual. “You cannot arrest or repress people who just don’t exist in the republic,” Alvi Karimov said to Interfax. “If such people existed in Chechnya, law enforcement would not have to worry about them since their own relatives would have sent them to where they could never return.”

So, remember that idea that Russia is a civilized country and not a backwards dictatorship run by murderous thugs? Not so much, apparently. And we shouldn't be at all concerned about Trump and friends having ties to Russia, or Russia interfering in our elections...

Chechnya is the break away Islamic Republic in an active civil war situation isn't it? No good way that one ends.

 Frazzled wrote:
Chechnya is the break away Islamic Republic in an active civil war situation isn't it? No good way that one ends.

And Kadyrov seems to be Putin's pet tyrant in the whole mess: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-will-not-be-stingy-with-injections-mr-putins-attack-dog-promises-critics/2016/01/21/ad483a2e-bfc8-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html?utm_term=.74e5b3c47d4e

Chechnya is the break away Islamic Republic in an active civil war situation isn't it? No good way that one ends.

It was brutally bombed to ruins in 90s and early 2000s, "bad guys" all killed or disappeared. Now it looks safe, but Kadyrov can do whatever he want to do (with Putin's agreeement of course).

 Freakazoitt wrote:

And we shouldn't be at all concerned about Trump and friends having ties to Russia

Oh, not this again

That's what you chose to respond to? You need to dig a bigger hole in the ground if you intend to bury your whole head.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Chechnya is the break away Islamic Republic in an active civil war situation isn't it? No good way that one ends.

And Kadyrov seems to be Putin's pet tyrant in the whole mess: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/we-will-not-be-stingy-with-injections-mr-putins-attack-dog-promises-critics/2016/01/21/ad483a2e-bfc8-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html?utm_term=.74e5b3c47d4e

yea it sounds like a major hole.

Good thing that in spite of these awful deeds and breaches of human rights that the silver lining was found so Trump could be cast in a bad light.

 Peregrine wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gay-and-terrified-in-chechnya/2017/04/09/b128822e-18a1-11e7-855e-4824bbb5d748_story.html?utm_term=.ba56c873b795

Quote that sums up the problem pretty well:

Mr. Kadyrov’s spokesman brushed off the report, saying no one in the republic is homosexual. “You cannot arrest or repress people who just don’t exist in the republic,” Alvi Karimov said to Interfax. “If such people existed in Chechnya, law enforcement would not have to worry about them since their own relatives would have sent them to where they could never return.”

So, remember that idea that Russia is a civilized country and not a backwards dictatorship run by murderous thugs? Not so much, apparently. And we shouldn't be at all concerned about Trump and friends having ties to Russia, or Russia interfering in our elections...

Let's have the US go to war with Russia, then.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Good thing that in spite of these awful deeds and breaches of human rights that the silver lining was found so Trump could be cast in a bad light.

How about we focus on what's actually bad, rather than just answering partisanship with more partisanship?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Good thing that in spite of these awful deeds and breaches of human rights that the silver lining was found so Trump could be cast in a bad light.

How about we focus on what's actually bad, rather than just answering partisanship with more partisanship?

Partisanship? How so? That would imply that I am objecting to the OP because I support Trump, and I await some evidence of this being my position.

I look forward to your support in denouncing the bad of using the plight of a persecuted minority to score cheap political points by the OP

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Good thing that in spite of these awful deeds and breaches of human rights that the silver lining was found so Trump could be cast in a bad light.

How about we focus on what's actually bad, rather than just answering partisanship with more partisanship?

Partisanship? How so? That would imply that I am objecting to the OP because I support Trump, and I await some evidence of this being my position.

I look forward to your support in denouncing the bad of using the plight of a persecuted minority to score cheap political points by the OP

As I see it, OP is pointing out that Russia's policy on homosexuality is bad, and that if Trump has ties to Russia, that reflect on Trump's views on homosexuality.

Nothing to do with those who support Trump. Just the man himself. No-one says that you endorse it, although you do seem to endorse Trump, and he seems to endorse this.
Of course, one can support certain parts of a person and not others.

Russia has had a terrible human rights record regarding their LGTB community for years now. It was a big story back in 2014 when people wanted the Olympics moved out of Sochi in protest. While there was a lot of coverage in the lead up to the Olympics I didn't see any actual protests in Sochi that got much if any coverage on the Olympic telecasts. Unfortunately I think this is one of those problems where it's easy to get support in condemning what's going on but it's hard to find support for taking any meaningful actions to stop it.

The tread title and the OP are a blatant lie.
Chechnya is murdering gay men. Chechnya is not Russia, fortunately. Russia is a civilised nation. Chechnya is a backwards place filled with murderous thugs and radical islamists.
Chechens are a rather barbaric bunch that no self-respecting Russian would want to be associated with.
Even though Chechnya is technically part of Russia, in practice it is largely independent. Kadyrov and his murderous thugs keep out the radical islamists and in return they can do whatever they like. That is the deal. No one likes it, but there is not much we can do about it (unless we want yet another pointless war in the Caucasus).

Prestor Jon wrote:
Russia has had a terrible human rights record regarding their LGTB community for years now. It was a big story back in 2014 when people wanted the Olympics moved out of Sochi in protest. While there was a lot of coverage in the lead up to the Olympics I didn't see any actual protests in Sochi that got much if any coverage on the Olympic telecasts. Unfortunately I think this is one of those problems where it's easy to get support in condemning what's going on but it's hard to find support for taking any meaningful actions to stop it.

What a shock, there were no protests in Russia during the Olympics.

Yeah, Russia is run by a collective of brutal thugs. There's really no way to pretend otherwise. Homophobia is one of the more visible issues, but there are so many problems.

 Frazzled wrote:
Chechnya is the break away Islamic Republic in an active civil war situation isn't it? No good way that one ends.

Not since 2009. There's some remnants dicking around out in the hills, but the fighting is over. The various warlords have either been bought off, killed, or headed off to fight in various middle eastern combats. Fun story, the originators of ISIS were Chechnyan.

Also a fun story, Chechnyan independence was undertaken lawfully, and was originally going to happen like the other Republics as part of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The 1991 coup put an end to that process, and when efforts were made to resume the Russians had a change of heart. This was mostly because the Russians had now had the time to figure out how to manage their new country and realised that Chechnya was an essential part of Russian energy security, so it had to remain under Russian control. Despite that, Chechnya still declared independence, and due to Russia's internal chaos they didn't get around to doing anything about it for a couple of years. When the Russians did roll the tanks in, it went about as well as Finland in 1939. Russians got bounced out, and Chechnya held democratic elections and started to look like a proper state. But the war had trashed the economy, crime became rampant and religious extremism was now clearly on the rise. Then you get some bombs across Moscow (planted by Russian intelligence or Chechnyans, no-one knows) that led to a second Russian invasion, the collapse of the Chechnyan government and 9 years of continuous fighting. At the end of that you have a lot more dead Russians, even more dead Chechnyans, and a radicalised muslim population that now has to be kept under heel by absolute oppression.

I heard a radio interview a while ago, it was with a journalist who was there during the first war. He spoke about how the fighting directly radicalised units and men, that moderate groups became hardened, and then religious fanatics. He said at the time he thought it was just a Chechnyan phenomenon, but he's seen the same pattern repeat in so many wars since then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:
Russia has had a terrible human rights record regarding their LGTB community for years now. It was a big story back in 2014 when people wanted the Olympics moved out of Sochi in protest. While there was a lot of coverage in the lead up to the Olympics I didn't see any actual protests in Sochi that got much if any coverage on the Olympic telecasts. Unfortunately I think this is one of those problems where it's easy to get support in condemning what's going on but it's hard to find support for taking any meaningful actions to stop it.

Yeah, that's a pretty good summary. About all we can do at this point is raise awareness.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As I see it, OP is pointing out that Russia's policy on homosexuality is bad, and that if Trump has ties to Russia, that reflect on Trump's views on homosexuality.

You mean this guy holding the rainbow flag?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Nothing to do with those who support Trump. Just the man himself. No-one says that you endorse it, although you do seem to endorse Trump, and he seems to endorse this..

Citation needed

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As I see it, OP is pointing out that Russia's policy on homosexuality is bad, and that if Trump has ties to Russia, that reflect on Trump's views on homosexuality.

You mean this guy holding the rainbow flag?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Nothing to do with those who support Trump. Just the man himself. No-one says that you endorse it, although you do seem to endorse Trump, and he seems to endorse this..

Citation needed

You mean the guy who for quite some time claimed he didn't know who David Duke was, despite having talked before about how Duke "wasn't part of the KKK"?

Someone doing something for a photo op doesn't mean crap. But you know that.

 sebster wrote:
Yeah, Russia is run by a collective of brutal thugs. There's really no way to pretend otherwise. Homophobia is one of the more visible issues, but there are so many problems.

 Frazzled wrote:
Chechnya is the break away Islamic Republic in an active civil war situation isn't it? No good way that one ends.

Not since 2009. There's some remnants dicking around out in the hills, but the fighting is over. The various warlords have either been bought off, killed, or headed off to fight in various middle eastern combats. Fun story, the originators of ISIS were Chechnyan.

Also a fun story, Chechnyan independence was undertaken lawfully, and was originally going to happen like the other Republics as part of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. The 1991 coup put an end to that process, and when efforts were made to resume the Russians had a change of heart. This was mostly because the Russians had now had the time to figure out how to manage their new country and realised that Chechnya was an essential part of Russian energy security, so it had to remain under Russian control. Despite that, Chechnya still declared independence, and due to Russia's internal chaos they didn't get around to doing anything about it for a couple of years. When the Russians did roll the tanks in, it went about as well as Finland in 1939. Russians got bounced out, and Chechnya held democratic elections and started to look like a proper state. But the war had trashed the economy, crime became rampant and religious extremism was now clearly on the rise. Then you get some bombs across Moscow (planted by Russian intelligence or Chechnyans, no-one knows) that led to a second Russian invasion, the collapse of the Chechnyan government and 9 years of continuous fighting. At the end of that you have a lot more dead Russians, even more dead Chechnyans, and a radicalised muslim population that now has to be kept under heel by absolute oppression.

I heard a radio interview a while ago, it was with a journalist who was there during the first war. He spoke about how the fighting directly radicalised units and men, that moderate groups became hardened, and then religious fanatics. He said at the time he thought it was just a Chechnyan phenomenon, but he's seen the same pattern repeat in so many wars since then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:
Russia has had a terrible human rights record regarding their LGTB community for years now. It was a big story back in 2014 when people wanted the Olympics moved out of Sochi in protest. While there was a lot of coverage in the lead up to the Olympics I didn't see any actual protests in Sochi that got much if any coverage on the Olympic telecasts. Unfortunately I think this is one of those problems where it's easy to get support in condemning what's going on but it's hard to find support for taking any meaningful actions to stop it.

Yeah, that's a pretty good summary. About all we can do at this point is raise awareness.

So the war is over then. I imagine it was a bloodbath.

As noted the USSR seems particularly hostile to homosexuals. Sad. I never understood the hostility. Only cat lovers deserve to be the pariahs they are.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As I see it, OP is pointing out that Russia's policy on homosexuality is bad, and that if Trump has ties to Russia, that reflect on Trump's views on homosexuality.

You mean this guy holding the rainbow flag?

And then we contrast it with the views of his Vice-President, which he must clearly support as well, given it's his Vice-President...

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Nothing to do with those who support Trump. Just the man himself. No-one says that you endorse it, although you do seem to endorse Trump, and he seems to endorse this..

Citation needed

I'm sorry, didn't you say "because I support Trump"?
If that was rhetorical or sarcastic, I do apologise, I couldn't really tell over screen, but those words were said, leading me to that assumption.

Trump holding the rainbow flag its quite hipocrite. Not calling him homophobic, because theres Homosexual, transexual, etc... people that don't consider themselves part of the LGTB movement.

Thats why its hipocrite, he is using a flag for a movement that he literally goes against it, as do is supporters.

Not to mention the part where it's friggin' upside-down. You had one job...

As noted, while Russia certainly has its issues with discrimination and even unofficially condoned violence against LGBT people, Chechnya is a near autonomous mini state that is ruled by an unaccountable backwards thug, and it really shouldnt reflect on Russia as a whole. Chechnya is a very different place than the rest of Russia.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Not to mention the part where it's friggin' upside-down. You had one job...

To be fair, he's holding it in such a way as we can read the writing on there...

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Not to mention the part where it's friggin' upside-down. You had one job...

To be fair, he's holding it in such a way as we can read the writing on there...

I'll be honest, going by Trump's Twitter, I wasn't sure he can read.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Not to mention the part where it's friggin' upside-down. You had one job...

To be fair, he's holding it in such a way as we can read the writing on there...

...the writing oriented so that it's meant to be read when the flag is upside down? How does that matter?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As I see it, OP is pointing out that Russia's policy on homosexuality is bad, and that if Trump has ties to Russia, that reflect on Trump's views on homosexuality.

Not exactly. I don't think this reflects on Trump's views on homosexuality, because I don't think Trump cares about homosexuality other than how he can use it in his more important goal of narcissistic self-promotion. The actual issue is that it's one more piece of evidence that Russia is a country the US should be treating as an enemy, but Trump and his associates want to be friends with the tyrant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
As noted, while Russia certainly has its issues with discrimination and even unofficially condoned violence against LGBT people, Chechnya is a near autonomous mini state that is ruled by an unaccountable backwards thug, and it really shouldnt reflect on Russia as a whole. Chechnya is a very different place than the rest of Russia.

Russia doesn't get this excuse. Putin seems to have endorsed this "solution" to Chechnya, so the Russian government gets to be held responsible for it. If the thug is unaccountable then someone has made a decision to let them be unaccountable. It's like if the governor of Texas decided to start mass executions of immigrants because the federal government wasn't building the border wall fast enough, and everyone else just shrugged and said "well, that's Texas". Obviously at that point it would be entirely fair and accurate to blame the US as a whole for letting this happen.

Saudi Arabia still executed legally people for being homosexual and US and all of Europe we all dance for the arabic sheiks... if we, occident, treated as enemys countrys that treat bad his own citizens, then we should be in war with basically all of Africa and 70% of Asia, and the mayority of Center and South America.

Not saying this to defend Trump, but Rusia its actually down in the list of "Goverments that broke basic human rights, that occident supports and have treats with them"

 Galas wrote:
Saudi Arabia still executed legally people for being homosexual and US and all of Europe we all dance for the arabic sheiks...

And many of us have a huge problem with this part of US foreign policy.