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I have just begun my 2nd army. I always loved the Chaos look, and the "evilness" of the models, but when I started 40k I went with SM because....well SM.

I purchased everything new. Not one model in my 3k point army was used. It was easy because if I needed a unit/model I could find it easily. I wanted to add a Thunderfire...np go to the store. Wanted a Techmarine, np order it online. Wanted a Dreadnaught, well pick which type, easy. Adding to my custom SM chapter was fun and easy. Availability, quantity, and OPTIONS.

Now starting with what I think is my true love, (Nurgle) CSM, I have come across a quite different outlook. I know this probably isnt news to anyone, but wow, not as easy to make a list and pick up what I need. Aside from the local GW's extremely small CSM section (no really like a 2x4ft space), the local stores have an even slimmer one. Add to the fact that some units are needing to be looked for in the AoS section and it makes it hard to find what you need. Then comes the lack of options. Havocs? Yeah, not like picking up a Devastator Box is it? Plague Marines? Nope. (Yes, I know the new models are coming but still).

Not complaining, and most likely not bringing up anything new, but just adding a perspective from a new player. I didnt realize how spoiled I was building my SM army.

The good thing is I have purchased about 2k points worth on CSM for a fraction of the cost of the SM army with craigslist, ebay, and some trades. The bad thing is, stripping the models (some worse than others with caked on super glue/bad paint) and working with a lot of metal. And now...trying to turn heavy bolters into autocannons, finding alternatives to Chaos Spawns, etc. etc. At least its making me be more creative.

So, if you need to strip a model that is plastic, metal or combination of the two. Castrol Super Clean (from the auto parts store/walmart) and rubber gloves is the best to strip the model without messing up the plastic. Simply put it in a bucket, drop the figures in and let them sit for a hour.

When you come back use gloves and rinse the models off. You can brush them with an old tooth brush and they will be stripped all the way down to the plastic or metal without damaging the model.


Having said that, you are correct. Chaos is not easy to find in gaming stores. You will almost entirely have to order it online.

Certain armies just don't get supported as much. On one end of the spectrum you have SM, who are by far the most supported faction with all the options. On the other end you have armies like DE, where a lot of their sculpts are getting older and can be hard to find in stores. (Of course, all the way on the end furthest away from SM are the SoB, who are only supported adhering to a technical definition of the word.) As an ork player, I understood that my faction isn't the most supported, but I don't care because I like converting and the used stuff I buy is often acceptable quality if I mess with it a bit.

Best way I have found to build Havocs is to buy a box of Devastators and use the heads from a CSM kit.

Why they don't produce a Havoc sprue with heavy weapons options is beyond me.

Agree with Jasper76; CSM are kinda blessed that they are so interchangeable with imperial marines.

Also, it's good to try get some chaos torsos / shoulder pads as well as heads and maybe even arms on the models when using loyalist pieces.

Maybe easiest and at some level cheapest way to build havocs is to get a autocannon set from FW. They also look so cool. They go for like 13 £ for 5. Assuming you go for typical 4 autocannon havocs. Like mentioned already, Devastator box is just so much better choice, it actually comes with 2x each Heavy Weapon, Havocs box has only 1x each.

I ended up looking today, for one reason or another, at differences between Codex SM and Codex CSM. Boy I was dissapointed!
For comparison:

5x SM terminator p.fists:175

5x CSM terminator p.fists:195

5x SM terminator c.fists:200

5x CSM terminator c.fists:220

Only thing that makes CSM termies a little better is that you can get them cheaper with power axes, which is a little worse than p.fist but still ok. The thing were they shine is that every terminator can replace combibolter with combi-weapon, the best is that minimum squad size is 3. Bottom line, CSM are more expensive.
In tacticals squads, SM outshine, they are a little more expensive, and if squad size is 10, SM can have 2 heavy weapons. CSM used to be like this, but now they can get only a single heavy weapon to any 10+ team.
I could go on with this, but writing this made so sad that I'm just going to stop here. The current ATSKNF is too strong, it didnt use to be as strong in some earlier editions.

jasper76 wrote:Best way I have found to build Havocs is to buy a box of Devastators and use the heads from a CSM kit.

Why they don't produce a Havoc sprue with heavy weapons options is beyond me.

Yeah, I was thinking when I click on the Havoc product it would state whats in the box. After reading some interwebz stuff I understood what in the picture is whats in the box. Hmmm. I have some spare bits from the Dev box, and will do some converting. HB's to Autocannons shouldnt be too hard since I have some longer barrels from another model.

The nice thing is I greenstuff the heck out of some things, so my SM bits will get used. Thank goodness I like Nurgle....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ghorgul wrote:
Maybe easiest and at some level cheapest way to build havocs is to get a autocannon set from FW. They also look so cool. They go for like 13 £ for 5. Assuming you go for typical 4 autocannon havocs. Like mentioned already, Devastator box is just so much better choice, it actually comes with 2x each Heavy Weapon, Havocs box has only 1x each.

I ended up looking today, for one reason or another, at differences between Codex SM and Codex CSM. Boy I was dissapointed!
For comparison:

5x SM terminator p.fists:175

5x CSM terminator p.fists:195

5x SM terminator c.fists:200

5x CSM terminator c.fists:220

Only thing that makes CSM termies a little better is that you can get them cheaper with power axes, which is a little worse than p.fist but still ok. The thing were they shine is that every terminator can replace combibolter with combi-weapon, the best is that minimum squad size is 3. Bottom line, CSM are more expensive.
In tacticals squads, SM outshine, they are a little more expensive, and if squad size is 10, SM can have 2 heavy weapons. CSM used to be like this, but now they can get only a single heavy weapon to any 10+ team.
I could go on with this, but writing this made so sad that I'm just going to stop here. The current ATSKNF is too strong, it didnt use to be as strong in some earlier editions.

Yeah, I am well aware of those issues. I dont mind. I am actually taking my time with the painting and loving the models I am working on. I am much more into them than my SM's when I was working on them. I also know I will probably get my butt kicked more but thats ok too. As long as I have fun and I go swinging its all good

Bright side, who knows what 8th will bring.....right?