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Hello!

Keeping in mind that a whole new edition is on the horizon which we already know throws out codexes, which will have lord knows what impact on formations and the like, I have been working on a marine list. This is mostly just for fun, but I hope to get a chance to play it once or twice before the edition ends. I'm going for a mobile, sturdy, firefight range army that makes use of some neat rules.

The army is comprised of a Iron Hands Fist of Medusa strike force formation, made up of a Stormlance Demi Company, and a single dreadnought. Stormlance gives all of the models in it a re-roll to hit when shooting units holding an objective, and gives infantry psuedo-battle focus (they can run after shooting). This rule specifically states they can re-embark into transports with this which is pretty nuts.

Iron Hands get 6+ FnP, and It Will Not Die on ICs and Vehicles. The formation gives any ICs a bubble that adds +1 to FnP and gives vehicles Machine Spirit. I also really love the gunslinger rule for some reason and think that two powerful shots while still gaining an extra attack is pretty fun, so I have set up several models to try that out.

One thing I'm a little stuck on is that all units either have to be in a transport to start the game, or be with bikes or jump packs. The formation requires a Devastator squad; I guess they could be in a Rhino and shoot out? Or just move into position turn one? A loophole I may have found would be making them 10 strong and combat squading bolter dudes into a Razorback - seem legit?

Worth noting, my gaming group doesn't generally allow D Weapons or superheavies and we usually play pretty low points like this, so the threats aren't that bonkers.
Anyways!

Stormlance Demi Company

Captain
-2 x Plasma Pistol
- Jump Pack
-Melta Bombs

Tac Squad - 10 dudes
-Vet Sergeant with 2x Grav Pistol
-Plasma Gun
-Heavy Bolter
-Rhino

Tac Squad - 10 dudes
-Vet Sergeant with 2x Grav Pistol
-Plasma Gun
-Heavy Bolter
-Rhino

Tac Squad - 5 dudes
-Sergeant with Combi-Melta
Razorback
-TL HB, Stormbolter

Dreadnought
-2 x TL Autocannons

2 x Landspeeders
-2 x HB
-2 x Assault Cannon

Devestators - 10 dudes
-Sergeant with Combi-Melta
-2 x Plasma Cannons
Razorback
-TL HB, Stormbolter

-1250 on the nose


I know I'd be in trouble against AV14. I could drop the Razorback stormbolters and bump the plasma cannons on the Devs to Lascannons perhaps.

What do you guys think? I love the idea of a gunslinging guy jumping around and being able to run away 2d6 after shooting. He's pretty tough even with his conservative equipment, with a 3+ save, 4+invul, 5+ Fnp, and It Will Not Die. His mobility should keep him out of crazy situations. The big tac squads could lay down some hurt, especially if you're near an objective, and then jump right back in their ride. If they are out in the open, assuming Captain man is within 12", they get a nice 5+ FnP so they are a little tougher. The little tac squad and half of the Devastators can cruise around and provide some fire support, or jump out and try to lucky shot a tank. The speeders can come in from reserve or zip up a flank to add some firepower. Plasma cannons are fun, and with only two, there will be a few bodies to take fire. The dread is great for emergency AA or general fire support.

Look fun to play? Any little tweaks you'd recommend? I'm admittedly pretty stuck on some things like the double pistols (it's fun!!).

So the Captain is going to be very, very lonely without a Squad equipped with Jump Packs to join him. Also, if we assume he's your Warlord, he's going to be a very big, very easy target due to the aforementioned lack of a Squad and the fact he's going to use his pistols. You might as well hand your opponent the VP or say goodbye to those wasted points because you'll be trying to hide him.

The Veteran Sergeants are not useful. The only time I see the Veteran Sergeant upgrade being useful is for when the Squads are knocked out of their transports, not to mention the fact that running any number of Grav-Pistols on a Tactical Squad isn't very useful since they're almost never ever geared to be in CC (not to mention Rapid Fire on the Bolters more than makes up for not taking a Grav-Pistol or pair thereof). Also, I find that unless you plan to sit a Tactical Squad on an objective an not move it for the entire game, having a Heavy Weapon other than a Grav-Cannon is not very useful because of the whole 'Snapfiring Heavy Weapons that have moved' vs Salvo mechanics.

I don't know how well a Dreadnought w/ two Twin-Linked Autocannons is going to do, but if it were against infantry and camping an objective, I see it doing reasonably well (though an Assault Cannon in place of one of the Autocannons may do better).

I don't see the Landspeeders doing too badly, but I prefer to run them as Anti-Vehicle units rather than Anti-Infantry.

A few things are wrong with the Devastators:

-- They are only useful once they have exited the vehicle and waited a turn (since you can't Snapfire Blast Weapons), so it might be Turn 3 or Turn 4 before they actually become useful in any way.
-- Running a Combi Weapon on a Devastator Squad is not very useful unless it's a Combi-Plasma or a Combi-Flamer on a Devastator Squad w/ Grav-Cannons (because of the similar ranges of the weapons). In any other case, I think you're wasting points.
-- Running them in a Razorback isn't particularly useful if you ask me.

In addition to what you said about being in trouble in terms of AV14, you also don't have any Anti-Air. You're not likely to see it as a general rule in a 1,250-Point game (at least not in my experience), but it's always worth being prepared. With this and all the above in mind, I've created two alternate lists that revolve around the use of a Stormlance Demi-Company (see the two attached documents). If you'd like, I could also explain how I would play each of them.

Thanks for the reply! To be honest, I'm really not into min-maxing, grav spam, or marine bike models in general, so neither of those lists really appeal much to me. I am very aware that some of my units aren't competitively maxed out. Maybe some smaller tweaks I could make would be: drop veterancy from the two sergeants for artificer armor on the captain, drop the heavy bolters and combi-meltas to up gun the razorbacks to las-plas?

The idea with the combi weapon in the dev squad was that it would be combat squadded down. Since the rule for the formation requires the "unit" to start embarked, I would embark the 4 guys with bolters and the sergeant, and the be able to deploy out the heavy weapons. This might be taking advantage of a technicality but it seems to fulfill the requirements to me. There's no obsec or anything, so the embarked half of the dev squad could roll out and act exactly like the small tac squad. That all said, I could do the same thing without either combi-weapon and soup up the razorbacks for a better result I think.

The captain would be hiding behind stuff, my own tanks even, and can run 2d6 after shooting like a jet pack model (Tau battlesuit style), so there is no reason he should ever be super exposed. Artificer makes him a bit more expensive, but could be worth it. He is just one model, but 2+, 4++, 5+FnP, and IWND will let him take a few hits if he ends up exposed - as long as it's not anti-tank fire. Then again, if my opponent is firing their AT at this guy, then it's not going at the 4 tanks full of troops also with IWND and Machine Spirit if he's in range. He can still join units if needed and can deep strike, so there's a lot of situational options for him to best keep him as safe as possible. Again, I know this is not the world-beating captain set up, but rather something fun and different that I really haven't seen but can visualize being pretty neat if used right.

Doomface81 wrote:
Thanks for the reply! To be honest, I'm really not into min-maxing, grav spam, or marine bike models in general, so neither of those lists really appeal much to me.

-- In my experience, Min-Maxing is practically unavoidable. It is an essential part of list building and a skill.
-- Disliking Grav-Spam is understandable, but the use of Grav can be useful (but only when used in the right way. Dual Grav-Pistols on a Tactical Veteran Sergeant is not the right way if you ask me.)
-- Is the dislike for Space Marine Bikes because of the models or the rules?

Doomface81 wrote:
The captain would be hiding behind stuff, my own tanks even, and can run 2d6 after shooting like a jet pack model (Tau battlesuit style), so there is no reason he should ever be super exposed. Artificer makes him a bit more expensive, but could be worth it. He is just one model, but 2+, 4++, 5+FnP, and IWND will let him take a few hits if he ends up exposed - as long as it's not anti-tank fire. Then again, if my opponent is firing their AT at this guy, then it's not going at the 4 tanks full of troops also with IWND and Machine Spirit if he's in range. He can still join units if needed and can deep strike, so there's a lot of situational options for him to best keep him as safe as possible. Again, I know this is not the world-beating captain set up, but rather something fun and different that I really haven't seen but can visualize being pretty neat if used right.

Even still, he has no buffer because of his lack of accompanying unit, not to mention there is a half decent chance that his Plasma Pistols will kill him during the Shooting Phase (and that's before I've considered other shooting attacks such as Overwatch). Then we consider when he shoots as well as if and when he gets into Close Combat: How much damage can he truly deal? His shooting attacks have enough chance of killing him (or at least wounding him) make them not worth the damage they do, with any other weapon you can equip him with not putting out any significant damage. As for Close Combat, he can't do much damage at all, regardless of what you equip him with. The big part of what allows CC units to pump out damage is volume of attacks, and volume of attacks is something that the Captain on his own doesn't have.

And as I said before, he's a walking VP that you're either wasting or giving to your opponent no matter how nice the saves and movement make him look on paper. Remember that not only is he not as good as he looks on paper, the Dive Gods rule once he hits tabletop. As a result, I cannot ever agree with running an IC in such a way.

In light of what you said, I tried to come up with yet another list. Hopefully you think this is more agreeable [ See Attachment ].