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In recent days, we have learned quite a bit about what's changing from 7th edition to 8th edition.

Overall, I think that we reasonably can say that, broadly speaking, GW is turning Warhammer 40k into Warhammer: Age of Emporer. Spoken differently, 40k is being sigmarized. This is patently evident from the fact that many of the releases that we've encountered thus far are a straight port from Age of Sigmar. The way that cover works, the way that WS is treated, the way that BS is treated, the way that psychic abilities are adjudicated, the way that Leadership works, the addition of mortal wounds...and even the psychic ability "Smite" which is able to be used by all psykers...it's all a straight port from Age of Sigmar. You can even see the similarity between the AoS addition of Sigmarines and the 40k 8th edition addition of Rowboat Girlyman super marines.

At this point, I think that we can safely say that, whatever the final result is going to be, it's going to look a LOT like Age of Sigmar, albeit with some differences.

I cannot, however, help but notice what is NOT present in these releases:

They showed us some weapon profiles and told us that they are re-balancing all of the weapons to give each of them a specialized purpose. They showed us the statlines for boltguns, lascannons and flamers.

Note two kinds of weapons which they did NOT show us:

We are completely clueless as to the status of anti-air weapons and grav.

When it comes to anti-air weapons, we can be pretty sure that they will still be in the game, since there are dedicated anti-air models. But still, how is that going to work?

And again, it's extremely likely that grav will still be around in 8th, but what are the rules going to look like?

They told us how movement is going to work.

They did not tell us about bikes, jetbikes or fliers.

We have a general idea about how cover will work. We even know that smoke launchers are going to modify BS.

But we know nothing about jink saves or going to ground.

We know how leadership will work. We don't know how ATSKNF or Fearless will work.

We know how psychic tests will work. But they were strangely silent about whether or not they are porting the Rule of One into 40k (which is present in AoS).

Topic of Discussion:

1. What did you notice was absent from these releases?
2. What is your speculation on how that, whatever that is, will be handled in 8th?

Well, to be fair, this is not a 'Release'. They're showing us snippets of the upcoming rules to help build hype and excitement, and give us an idea of what we're heading for. The actual release date has not been officially announced yet. There is no release, therefore nothing can be absent from it. They're going to drop us a few tidbits here and there until the actual release to keep us engaged and to keep us talking about it.

They're finally doing something we've all criticized them for not doing in the past - giving us information about new releases and keeping everyone in the loop as to what's happening. Giving us a bit of a preview of whats coming.

 Vryce wrote:
Well, to be fair, this is not a 'Release'. They're showing us snippets of the upcoming rules to help build hype and excitement, and give us an idea of what we're heading for. The actual release date has not been officially announced yet. There is no release, therefore nothing can be absent from it.

Perhaps "release" is the wrong word.

I think you get my point, though. It seems to me that they are being very strategic specifically about what they are NOT telling us.

What things are you particularly left wondering about and are anxious to learn when 8th finally does drop?

"End Times" and pre General's Handbook aside AoS has been pretty successful.

I hope Grav goes back to its roots. We have a move stat now, let graviton weapons mess with it (like it did back in Rogue Trader).

At this point, most of what I want to see is army specific information. Between having a long-time association with 40k, and knowing several people that play AoS, along with the teasers they've given us so far, I can extrapolate a rudimentary picture of the overall game. At least enough for me to know that I very much want to play it, and have not been this excited for a new edition since.. well, ever, really. I am not completely enamored with everything we know so far, but I haven't seen anything that I outright hate. Not necessarily a fan of Mortal Wounds, for example, but I didn't like D-Weapons in 7th either, which this is essentially just an evolution of.

Probably the only core rule I am really anxious to see is how Deep Strike works, and whether or not it is permissible to assault on the turn you do. Other than that, I want to see what happens to my Tau, GK and CSM. Will my Broadsides finally get to use their Heavy Rail Rifles? Can I finally put my Railgun Hammerheads back on the table? Will the Riptide get the points increase it so desperately needs?? Will I actually get GOOD legion rules for my Thousand Sons and Night Lords? For that matter, will my Thousand Sons get a decent price point to even be worth putting on the table to make use of their Legion Tactics? All these are going to be covered in the relevant army lists, and that's what I really want to see at this point.

wth is the point of this? "what haven't they shown?"


Like 99.9% of the game man, even if we had all rules and dataslates you still only know about 70% of how a game works until you get it on the table.

In summary... DOOM and MAYBE GLOOOM! GLOOOOOM!!!

Bikers are probably going to just have a really high movement.
Jet Bikers are probably just going to have really high movement and a 'Hover' rule.

I'm honestly not expecting really radical changes

Altho, I am curious on how Markerlights will function.

Spend a Markerlight to reduce a targets Armor Save? (to represent what it currently does against cover saves)

 Talamare wrote:
In summary... DOOM and MAYBE GLOOOM! GLOOOOOM!!!

Bikers are probably going to just have a really high movement.
Jet Bikers are probably just going to have really high movement and a 'Hover' rule.

Do you think they'll retain the ability to jink?

Altho, I am curious on how Markerlights will function.

Spend a Markerlight to reduce a targets Armor Save? (to represent what it currently does against cover saves)

That would be OP.

What I suspect is that markerlights will simply have the option to ignore the bonus granted by cover.

I think that if markerlights keep the +1 BS bonus, that will be really useful in 8th.

They explained cover saves today, armour and cover saves will be the same thing. Cover bonuses such as ruins and smoke will be added on to your existing save eg)marine in light cover has a 2+ save. However negative save mods on weapons like lascannon will subtract from these saves, cover wont save you against weapons that can punch through buildings.


Im a little worried about my DE flyers

Reavas wrote:
They explained cover saves today, armour and cover saves will be the same thing. Cover bonuses such as ruins and smoke will be added on to your existing save eg)marine in light cover has a 2+ save. However negative save mods on weapons like lascannon will subtract from these saves, cover wont save you against weapons that can punch through buildings.

Cover and armor saves won't be the same thing.

Yes, it will be a single roll, but that doesn't make them the same thing. Cover is going to be a modifier to the armor save.

So it would make sense for marker lights to have a rule that says "target unit does not gain a bonus for being in cover," but it would not make sense for marker lights simply to add rending - X to a shooting attack.

I just don't think there is much need to speculate considering they are handing us new information to discuss everyday. There is of course some speculation around this news, but that is on going every day.

They did mention Fliers a bit in movement. In that they will have a minimum amount they have to move per turn and that they seem to be more like their old pre-5th incarnation type.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
They did mention Fliers a bit in movement. In that they will have a minimum amount they have to move per turn and that they seem to be more like their old pre-5th incarnation type.

Do you think that Flyrant spam lists are still going to be a thing in 8th?

Why are you insisting on asking questions repeatedly in multiple threads when there is blatantly insufficient information available to have an informed discussion about the topic, or even make any sort of speculative guesses beyond blind shots in the dark?

It's a complete waste of time and energy.

Well the main reason they were around to begin with is because they were the only effective tool Tyranids have to do.. Much of anything really.

Without looking at the units in the new list. They won't be gimped by Warp Charges because each Tyranid psyker will be able to cast their own things without causing problems for each other.

They'll have better movement overall potentially due to the new Movement stat, and with the changes to WS means they may not be problems with WS3 gribblies. Carnifexes will strike first when they charge into combat, same with the slower I ones may see a resurgence of them

Why are you insisting on asking questions repeatedly in multiple threads when there is blatantly insufficient information available to have an informed discussion about the topic, or even make any sort of speculative guesses beyond blind shots in the dark?

It's a complete waste of time and energy. .

It's how he Traditio-nally works with posts and topics, at least these have some relevant discussion potential!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well the main reason they were around to begin with is because they were the only effective tool Tyranids have to do.. Much of anything really.

I think that we're going to see a nerf in 8th, for this simple reason:

Think about the change to the way that heavy weapons work. I don't think that we're going to see snapshots in 8th edition. What we are going to see, I think, is negative BS modifiers.

It's worth noting that fliers in AoS do not have the hard to hit rule.

Different fliers are likely going to have different rules on their war scrolls, but I don't think that FMCs are going to get anything like a hard to hit rule. And chances are, if they do, it's going to be, at most, a -1 BS mod.

I also have my doubts that FMCs are going to have anything like a jink special rule to increase their durability.

I think that flyrants are going to be a lot easier to kill, and probably more difficult to spam.

If I had to guess: 10-20 wounds per flyrant with a 3+ armor save.

Easily taken down with mass lascannon or krak missile fire.

I do think that the small bugs are going to play a much bigger role in "competitive" tyranids lists.

I also think that vehicles are probably going to be an integral part of counter-tyranids play, if only to deny space to the small bugs.

Without looking at the units in the new list. They won't be gimped by Warp Charges because each Tyranid psyker will be able to cast their own things without causing problems for each other.

How this works out will depend on whether or not GW ports the Rule of One into 8th edition. I think we might actually see fewer psykers if they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 John Prins wrote:
I hope Grav goes back to its roots. We have a move stat now, let graviton weapons mess with it (like it did back in Rogue Trader).

This is what is interesting to me. I don't think that it's difficult to predict what most weapons will look like in 8th edition. They are likely to keep their current strength, range, etc. Their AP value is going to be Rend: (current AP value - 2).

Things like grav, on the other hand...different story.

We can be sure that there is going to be grav.

But what "grav" does could be practically anything.

Oh, for crying out loud, OP.....

GW tease us with 3 (4?) weapons profiles, and you turn that into "OMG, we're doomed, flyrants are dead, except maybe for the Rule of One..."

Or am I missing something?

Stop extrapolating, read the stuff, and play the game when it comes out. THEN, we'll KNOW.

I noticed that their posts have a total of three semicolons, so this clearly means that the mechanics are going back to what they were in third edition. This semicolon count can't possibly be a coincidence, it must be a carefully-crafted message about my pet issues.

GW choose the weapons they showed us specificly yes on that the OP is correct. but it isn't to secretly cover up some sort of nerf, it was to show some basic interactgions with very basic weaponry. the flamer, boltgun and lascannon are bread and butter weapons. Guns that we ALL know of, guns that we all know their intended use etc. stuff like grav etc are specialsit weapons, to be quite honest I'm curious about grav my self, mostly in a "how are they gonna diffrentiate them sufficantly from plasma guns" sort of way. (in 6th/7th they had basicly taken the Plasma Guns role as the prefered anti-heavy infantry gun)

What if everything they haven't shown won't be in the final release!? *GASP*

Or maybe we can just wait as they show us more and the final release.

Let's just all be thankful they've entered the modern era and assuage some of our fears (or confirm others) by previewing an important product.

I too am deeply concerned by some advertisements that I saw.

Or not. Just wait until you have more substantial rules in your hands to draw conclusions.