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I'm hoping GW is just clever enough to make the NewMarines a new option not the death of our now "mini-marines". Though I won't be surprised if our cute marines are just left behind.

But what if the NewMarines are ThunderWarriors? What would be a good stat line for them?
M6 WS3+ BS4+ S5 T5 W1 A1 Ld6 Sv3+. ?

Weren't Thunder Warriors meant to be inferior to Astartes?

I dont get where people are thinking the NuMarines will be Thunder Warriors? We havent seen any such indication, but either way, Thunder Warriors would be extremely powerful combatants, much more on the level of something like a Custodes than a Space Marine, that's the baseline I would use.

I really don't know why Guilliman would want to make soldiers that melted down into puddles of goo and were extermianted for being uncontrollable and subject to mutations.

 Fentlegen wrote:
Weren't Thunder Warriors meant to be inferior to Astartes?

No, they were stronger, but more unstable (mentally). Genetically made to last until the unity wars were over.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I really don't know why Guilliman would want to make soldiers that melted down into puddles of goo and were extermianted for being uncontrollable and subject to mutations.

Well I don't mean broken genotype protomarines... but a cleaned up, more close combat focused, under Guilliman's control, Astartes++ marine would make sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And it'd leave the Chapter Marines in a counterpart role instead of inferior

From strongest to least....You have the Emperor, followed by Primarchs, followed by Custodes (however, Custodes were made from the Emperors gene code, so they were/are almost equal to primarchs and some argue better), then astartes, then thunder warriors... Noww the new marines are under custodes but above space marines.

My guess is that they are brand new, and eventually all of our old marines will be dust on a shelf, replaced with these new giant marines. They will be phasing out the old marines IMO.

krazynadechukr wrote:
From strongest to least....You have the Emperor, followed by Primarchs, followed by Custodes (however, Custodes were made from the Emperors gene code, so they were/are almost equal to primarchs and some argue better), then astartes, then thunder warriors... Noww the new marines are under custodes but above space marines.

Well we have stats for the custodes and they're not keeping up with the Primarchs at all and in the lore GalVorbak gave them a running. It's also stated that Thunder Warriors were superior to Astartes in combat. So not quite as you have it. That's why I was trying to shoot the middle.

As far as I'm aware Thunder Warriors were an unrelated precursor to Astartes and would therefor not fulfill the description in the video:
"Geneforged beyond the capabilities of their brethren. Armed and equipped with weapons befitting their stature as the truest heirs of the Primarch's legacies"

Well, the same tech could have inspired the new ultra ultramarines. Though heavily modified by Cawl. As it's mentioned that they are using very old tech. We don't know untill they give us more lore to go on.

The quote did mention primarchs as in multiple. Might mean all the first foundings might get some.

There are a whole ton of ways they could go with the new marines.

Thunder Warrior v2 with the kinks worked out and grown/cloned from an ideal template. Perhaps they used the preliminary work from the Cursed Founding and improved it to reduce the incidence of mutation. Perhaps they've determined a way to create mass-production Custodes. Not nearly as strong, but much quicker to make. Or maybe even just doing something similar to what the Emperor did to make the Primarchs.

Whatever it is, to be a proper boon, it will almost definitely rely on them being vat-grown in order to get produced in larger numbers.

Ton of ways they can go and there is no real shortage of plot hooks that were left lying around to get picked up if GW wanted super-marines in the game. Hopefully they pull on one of the threads instead of doing something from out of left field.

 Rippy wrote:
My guess is that they are brand new, and eventually all of our old marines will be dust on a shelf, replaced with these new giant marines. They will be phasing out the old marines IMO.

They won't. You don't phase out your best selling products just to correct a scale error. They'll be a add on choice for nilla marines and maybe the other chapters and function similar to custodes at the most. People get true scale marines, and GW gets to sell new kits. Asking everyone to redo and rebuy their entire space marine collection (and cause GW to redo and rebrand all their space marine promo material and artwork) would cause ludicrous amounts of players to jump ship (and cost GW ludicrous amounts of money on a gamble) considering how popular Space Marines are.

Also, didn't most of the space marines kits get redone in the last couple of years and GW has been going through great lengths to ensure all their space marine kits (nilla marines, Horus Heresy, and CSM) are compatible with each other. You don't do all that just to phase it out and start over just for a rescale.

People have been asking for true scale marines, GW delivered and shoehorned them into the lore. Nothing more, nothing less.

Lobukia wrote:
...and in the lore GalVorbak gave them a running.

At best GV were on equal terms fighting Custodes but were for sure not superior. Even ambushed and outnumbered Custodes were able to kill many.

If my standard marine tactical squads are Gak I will not play the game. It's that simple. We don't want new models. We want new rules.

Im like 90% positive they are not going to be Phaseing out the old marines considering

a) They have remained this size for years.
b)They would need to redesign their entire line, every tac squad, dev squad, assault squad, every faction specific unit.
c)If they dont do B, it will be a massive blow to the company because its going to piss off a lot of people if GW goes lol all your old models are not even comparable

 Backspacehacker wrote:
b)They would need to redesign their entire line, every tac squad, dev squad, assault squad, every faction specific unit.
c)If they dont do B, it will be a massive blow to the company because its going to piss off a lot of people if GW goes lol all your old models are not even comparable

Doubly true if it was a phased approach, sales would drop to near zero as people waited for the units they wanted to be rereleased.

Fictional wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
b)They would need to redesign their entire line, every tac squad, dev squad, assault squad, every faction specific unit.
c)If they dont do B, it will be a massive blow to the company because its going to piss off a lot of people if GW goes lol all your old models are not even comparable

Doubly true if it was a phased approach, sales would drop to near zero as people waited for the units they wanted to be rereleased.

That is if they just didn't quit over it, having spent thousands to build up a sizeable force. They would have to change the entire space marine line, every unit, and every vehicle would have to be corrected to scale

Thunder Warriors makes sense (or at least V2).

Larger, stronger, tougher than their normal Astartes brethren but the original Thunder Warriors weren't as long-lived or mentally stable.

Therefore, either Girlyman is accepting that these new Thunder Warriors won't last as long (which is fine considering they're going to be thrown into the worst battles) OR has upgraded them to V2.

Has anyone actually seen any evidence other then the teaser trailer on these new guys?

It goes on about reinforcements and rebirths for those chapters lost so you can go from one extreme, old SM with be scrapped and replaced with NuMarines, to the other end where it's simply a fluff mechanic to explain why there are suddenly so many Marines about to fight this new campaign.

Why do people keeping saying thunder warriors were inferior to marines? They were more potent in combat, and more powerful on an individual level, but lacked the focus and discipline of a marine. I see it this way: One thousand marines vs one thousand thunder warriors might be close to an even fight, but 5 thunder warriors vs 5 marines would be thunder warrior victory almost always.

 Jaxler wrote:
Why do people keeping saying thunder warriors were inferior to marines? They were more potent in combat, and more powerful on an individual level, but lacked the focus and discipline of a marine. I see it this way: One thousand marines vs one thousand thunder warriors might be close to an even fight, but 5 thunder warriors vs 5 marines would be thunder warrior victory almost always.

It all comes down to their instability, both mentally and biologically as they weren't made to last, just get the Emperor to where he needed to get to with Earth.

While they are stronger and more violent in a fight they don't have the discipline of SM. So yes 5 on 5 fist fight the thunder warriors would need to get the win but otherwise a marine's training and squad level tactics would win out, taking the TW out one by one.

ScarVet101 wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
Why do people keeping saying thunder warriors were inferior to marines? They were more potent in combat, and more powerful on an individual level, but lacked the focus and discipline of a marine. I see it this way: One thousand marines vs one thousand thunder warriors might be close to an even fight, but 5 thunder warriors vs 5 marines would be thunder warrior victory almost always.

It all comes down to their instability, both mentally and biologically as they weren't made to last, just get the Emperor to where he needed to get to with Earth.

While they are stronger and more violent in a fight they don't have the discipline of SM. So yes 5 on 5 fist fight the thunder warriors would need to get the win but otherwise a marine's training and squad level tactics would win out, taking the TW out one by one.

I believe there was some HH lore or something where a space marine legion has to reclaim a prison that had thunder warriors in it, and essentially on a one to one level each thunder warrior put down 4-5 marines per warrior.

Source: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Thunder_Warriors at the very bottom.

The to be world eaters didn't play the situation well, but all things considered I wouldn't say marines could just out trade thunder warriors at a squad level. Marines probably would be able to isolate and overpower small groups of warriors in an extended conflict, but I doubt they'd win in a fair fight without taking unacceptable casualties.

ScarVet101 wrote:
Has anyone actually seen any evidence other then the teaser trailer on these new guys?

It goes on about reinforcements and rebirths for those chapters lost so you can go from one extreme, old SM with be scrapped and replaced with NuMarines, to the other end where it's simply a fluff mechanic to explain why there are suddenly so many Marines about to fight this new campaign.

I said this in another thread, that perhaps they are making new marines that are free of flaws for all chapters. This is how gw will scrap the unique chapters and roll it all into one book making everything generic space marines. That's why in the fluff they destroyed the BA and Fenris

 TheLumberJack wrote:

ScarVet101 wrote:
Has anyone actually seen any evidence other then the teaser trailer on these new guys?

It goes on about reinforcements and rebirths for those chapters lost so you can go from one extreme, old SM with be scrapped and replaced with NuMarines, to the other end where it's simply a fluff mechanic to explain why there are suddenly so many Marines about to fight this new campaign.

I said this in another thread, that perhaps they are making new marines that are free of flaws for all chapters. This is how gw will scrap the unique chapters and roll it all into one book making everything generic space marines. That's why in the fluff they destroyed the BA and Fenris

Too bad they said all models would get rules. I assume this includes sanguinary guard and thunder wolves.

Wasn't there a HH story about how the thunder warriors used Astarte Geneseed to fix the flaws with themselves? That would seem to meet all of the conditions mentioned, technology pulled from the dark ages of technology, uses astrates own gene seed, and possibly bringing back dead chapters (using the tithe of geneseed the Ad mech get)?

To be fair though I think they are something new, they might give a nod to thunder warriors, but it will end up being some new branch of super soldiers.

 Jaxler wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

ScarVet101 wrote:
Has anyone actually seen any evidence other then the teaser trailer on these new guys?

It goes on about reinforcements and rebirths for those chapters lost so you can go from one extreme, old SM with be scrapped and replaced with NuMarines, to the other end where it's simply a fluff mechanic to explain why there are suddenly so many Marines about to fight this new campaign.

I said this in another thread, that perhaps they are making new marines that are free of flaws for all chapters. This is how gw will scrap the unique chapters and roll it all into one book making everything generic space marines. That's why in the fluff they destroyed the BA and Fenris

Too bad they said all models would get rules. I assume this includes sanguinary guard and thunder wolves.

I would too. The only way I could see it working is if they limited the amount you could take for running a certain chapter, sort of in a way to show the sanguinary guard or thunderwolves are a dying unit as marines all become generic. I hope this doesn't happen though as while I think the books should be combined I like that certain chapters are unique

 TheLumberJack wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

ScarVet101 wrote:
Has anyone actually seen any evidence other then the teaser trailer on these new guys?

It goes on about reinforcements and rebirths for those chapters lost so you can go from one extreme, old SM with be scrapped and replaced with NuMarines, to the other end where it's simply a fluff mechanic to explain why there are suddenly so many Marines about to fight this new campaign.

I said this in another thread, that perhaps they are making new marines that are free of flaws for all chapters. This is how gw will scrap the unique chapters and roll it all into one book making everything generic space marines. That's why in the fluff they destroyed the BA and Fenris

Too bad they said all models would get rules. I assume this includes sanguinary guard and thunder wolves.

I would too. The only way I could see it working is if they limited the amount you could take for running a certain chapter, sort of in a way to show the sanguinary guard or thunderwolves are a dying unit as marines all become generic. I hope this doesn't happen though as while I think the books should be combined I like that certain chapters are unique

You jest right? Firstly, Fenris is still there - the wildlife and people have been culled right back but aren't extinct.
Secondly the TWC was already rare, officially non-existent in imperial records and sightings were rare enough that the Space Wolves easily waved claims of Space Wolves riding furry monsters off as nonsense "Probably just the Swiftclaws, they're an unruly bunch of bike riding savages...".

The tabletop makes it seem like every Codex compliant Librarian has them on speed dial though.

 TheLumberJack wrote:

ScarVet101 wrote:
Has anyone actually seen any evidence other then the teaser trailer on these new guys?

It goes on about reinforcements and rebirths for those chapters lost so you can go from one extreme, old SM with be scrapped and replaced with NuMarines, to the other end where it's simply a fluff mechanic to explain why there are suddenly so many Marines about to fight this new campaign.

I said this in another thread, that perhaps they are making new marines that are free of flaws for all chapters. This is how gw will scrap the unique chapters and roll it all into one book making everything generic space marines. That's why in the fluff they destroyed the BA and Fenris

If 40K is going the way of Age of Sigmar, then they are not likely to get rid of Chapter Tactics. I say this because in the latest AoS Battletomes (their Codexes [Codices?]) they are including versions of Chapter Tactics that affect the ways that the armies can be played, in particular the Kharadron Overlords. Having read through that book, I can comfortably say that I bet Chapter Tactics will stay, and we will see Legions for Chaos Marines, Regiment styles for Imperial Guard, and different Craftworld playstyles as the individual Codexes (Codices?) get released.

Chapter Tactics may not exist in any way that is similar to what we have now, but I betcha they will be there.

I thought they already had the new marines available here.