8th edition rumors

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**Kirby**

Faeit dropped a heap of rumors today (copied below) and I've done a post on with some comments.

Echoing the similarities to AoS and a very streamlined ruleset though still a lot of gaps on what we don't know (i.e. the full terrain effects, model rules, points, missions, etc.) but I'm liking the changes a lot.

- Assault 2d6”, multiple units
- Split fire: any unit can target as many targets as they want
- Normally the unit don’t have to target the nearest unit, but there are lots of abilities that have this restriction
- Invulnerable saves simply ignore armour penetration up to the given value. They are not that common, wave serpents and Canoptek wraiths have one
- Most power fields, etc. are separate saves that are taken in addition to other saves just like FnP of today, they may or may not ignore mortal wounds on a case by case basis
- Dodges, camos, etc are now to hit modifiers
- Characters cannot join units
- Characters can only be targeted if nearest target or within 12”
- Larger models are seldom characters, Gulliman is not for example
- Deepstriking units can be placed anywhere. Every unit with deep strike has a value. Have to beat it to land on target, otherwise opposing player can move unit the rolled distance
- There are no mishaps anymore
- Overwatch shooting against deep striking units within 9” at -1 BS
- Summoning is not a psychic ability anymore, normal deep striking with psyker as homing beacon instead
- There are spells that replenish or add wounds to demon squads
- Most vehicles have a single attack with high S, but no AP, some have considerably more like the battle waggon
- Vehicles and units fighting against vehicles usually can fall back without penalty, they cannot move in the charge phase when they have moved or shot in the same turn. Most walkers don’t have this rule
- Terrain enhances armour in assault phase for the defender, or both in consecutive turns, is negated by grenades
- Assaulting units get +1 attack
- Vertical movement does not count against the allowance but a model cannot go higher than the movement value in a given phase. Lots of exceptions for jumping, flying, etc. of course
Ranges are measured on the ground level from base or model to base or model, whichever is nearer
- Units are deployed within 3” of a transport, cannot move, but can charge in the charge phase
- No more firing from a transport, though some vehicles, especially open topped ones have extra firing points weapons if they transport enough (and sometimes eligible) models. But they use their own BS and the kind of weapon is fixed. For example Raiders have 5 fire point splinter rifles, but only if they transport kabalite warriors
- No challenges
- Hidden power fists viable again, wound allocation by owning player, any model in squad, but wounded ones first
- There are some precision weapons that let the firing player choose the wound allocation (always or on a 6)
- Units have always the same T and Save now. There are some models that have T- Sv - and adapt like drones and grots, most of the other combined units have matchings stats now, Black templar neophytes have a 3+ now, for whatever reason
- Command points allow to reroll saves, hits, wounding or charge distance, reroll any single dice throw, negate all terrain in 12” of one of your models, alter the attack sequence, boost psychic block rolls, allow additional reserves and allow units to get another charge phase after wiping out an enemy
- There are some models like Ghazghkull that have their own abilities that are triggered by command points
- perils of the war: snake eyes on the test, d6 on table, d3 mortal wounds and losing a spell are the worst cases
- Player can spend command points to choose who goes first instead of rolling, whoever spends more
- Matched games have a fixed number of turns, 5 or 6 rounds depending on mission, 18” is starting range and turn 1 charges are completely legal
- Reserves are not random, except for rounding: second turn half the units are deployed, third turn half of the remaining, fourth turn rest
- Flyers have an individual to hit modifier, mostly -2 or -3, a 6 is always a hit as usual, depends on the flying mode for flyers that have more than one
- Flyers are affected by heavy weapon malus, but most flyer weapons are assault,
flyer weapons have often a shorter range and a different name, but are otherwise identical to their ground counterparts
- Terrain does not influence movement distance per se. Some citadel terrain pieces half the movement or do other things.
- There are no warzone rules in the core rules
- True line of sight is used to establish line of sight to a model, but otherwise models count in or out of cover depending if they are in a piece of terrain or if they are touching it and the firing - line goes through the terrain
- In matched play, models have a fixed base size specified in the General’s Handbook. In the two other game types, they can use any base they want

**ZebioLizard2**

Faeit.. Just a reminder that they are very, very unreliable.

**Verviedi**

As in, if Faeit told me the sky was blue, I'd need to check for myself unreliable.

**Talamare**

I never believe in rumors, far too often they are just random made up b

**Thud**

Hey, there's an old familiar pink face!

**Kirby**

Oh verily much so, I would be impressed if a quarter of these are even remotely true. Throw enough mud at the wall and some has to stick yes?

Call it an obsessive need to wildly speculate until the rules are here so we can get gaming.

Thud wrote:
Hey, there's an old familiar pink face!

Oh hi low <3

.

**ZebioLizard2**

Well.. Given that I'm not trusting these but for the sake of conversation, let's speculate on some of the ones I find interesting.

- There are some models like Ghazghkull that have their own abilities that are triggered by command points

Now this is one that sounds interesting, because not only does it reward you for doing force commanding properly, but there's a benefit to powerful Warlords/Leaders who tactically should be above normal people of their kind. The ability to trigger an ability with command points which are limited and non-renewable means that not only are you spending on the main benefits, initative, but power as well.

- Normally the unit don’t have to target the nearest unit, but there are lots of abilities that have this restriction

Is this saying that we are returning to 4th and below's "Target nearest unit unless you pass a LD check" sort?

- Split fire: any unit can target as many targets as they want

A benefit for mixed shot units that's for sure. Shoot the anti-tank at the vehicles and the anti-infantry at the infantry.

**Traditio**

The bases requirement is ridiculous.

GW has supplied both 25 mm and 32 mm bases for power armored marines. Why should I either be excluded from playing the game, or else, penalized for using exactly the product that GW sold?

**Freytag93**

Kirby wrote:
Faeit

Stopped reading right there. Too much salt to handle.

**Marmatag**

Characters being unable to join units sounds fake to me.

One of their major values was to soak or deflect wounds.

**Vector Strike**

So salty I'll need new kidneys, but some stuff is believable. Other... not so much.

- Split fire: any unit can target as many targets as they want

Hm, nice. This will encourage picking up different weapons per squad, instead of spamming always the same one

- Invulnerable saves simply ignore armour penetration up to the given value. They are not that common, wave serpents and Canoptek wraiths have one
- Most power fields, etc. are separate saves that are taken in addition to other saves just like FnP of today, they may or may not ignore mortal wounds on a case by case basis

If we take that 'power fields' are 'invulnerable saves', this make absolutely no sense. Saves are saves - you get to use 1 and that's it. Mortal wounds, at least the one we have seen (Smite psychic power) ignores invulnerable saves.

- Dodges, camos, etc are now to hit modifiers

Makes sense.

- Characters cannot join units

I think it was already estabilished by GW that they can, but won't give out special rules to different keyword units?

- Characters can only be targeted if nearest target or within 12”

Hm, ok. Preserves cool dudes.

- Larger models are seldom characters, Gulliman is not for example

I get it that a Riptide isn't a character, but a Bloodthirster or Guilliman should be!

- Deepstriking units can be placed anywhere. Every unit with deep strike has a value. Have to beat it to land on target, otherwise opposing player can move unit the rolled distance
- There are no mishaps anymore

Bizarre. In AoS, IIRC, you can deploy wherever you want, but at least 9" from any enemy unit, and there is no scatter. What happens if the enemy moves you unit over his or your own units?

- Overwatch shooting against deep striking units within 9” at -1 BS

Eh, I guess we can charge from Reserves now? Overwatch is already done at Snap Shots in 8th - where does the -1 BS enters?

- Summoning is not a psychic ability anymore, normal deep striking with psyker as homing beacon instead

Homing beacon? But is DS doesn't scatter anymore, there's no need for that. Or will they be forced to DS near the psyker?

- Vehicles and units fighting against vehicles usually can fall back without penalty, they cannot move in the charge phase when they have moved or shot in the same turn. Most walkers don’t have this rule

So Walkers can charge a tank, leave it, fire at it and charge it again?

- Terrain enhances armour in assault phase for the defender, or both in consecutive turns, is negated by grenades

Now that's new. Makes a bit of sense, but brings more bookeeping.

- Assaulting units get +1 attack

With them already striking first, I don't think this will be true.

- Ranges are measured on the ground level from base or model to base or model, whichever is nearer

Base to model? Oh God, this will bring a lot of problems. Do antennae/adornements/wings count?

- No more firing from a transport, though some vehicles, especially open topped ones have extra firing points weapons if they transport enough (and sometimes eligible) models. But they use their own BS and the kind of weapon is fixed. For example Raiders have 5 fire point splinter rifles, but only if they transport kabalite warriors

Heaby open-topped players will hate this. Heavily doubt this.

- No challenges

Keep characters but leave challengs out? Hard to believe, but challenges were a pain in the ass anyway. Won't cry if they're gone.

- Units have always the same T and Save now. There are some models that have T- Sv - and adapt like drones and grots, most of the other combined units have matchings stats now, Black templar neophytes have a 3+ now, for whatever reason

T- Sv? What does that even mean?

- Player can spend command points to choose who goes first instead of rolling, whoever spends more

Woha, this is cool

- Reserves are not random, except for rounding: second turn half the units are deployed, third turn half of the remaining, fourth turn rest

Golly Molly, no need to get a Comms Relay anymore! I really hope this one gets in

- Terrain does not influence movement distance per se. Some citadel terrain pieces half the movement or do other things.

A serious change. But I'm all for new stuff terrain can do.

**Azreal13**

This is such a bag of gak that even Faeit published a retraction.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Charax wrote:
Faeit just updated the article with this disclaimer/rebuttal:

Please note that a valued source has confirmed that these are wildly off. Here is from a source we can trust about the rumors below
Some items are kinda correct due to the poster grabbing gw shares and sigmar rules, and basically throwing spaghetti at the wall. But most is either incomplete, somewhat off, or wildly off.

So don't get your hopes up

Plus, news and/or rumours need to go in, you know, News and Rumours, not in discussion, which would have saved a whole thread as it's already been covered in the 8th News and Rumours thread.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

Many of these sound ridiculous, but I'll give my 2 cents on some:

I expect Faith and Orders to be tied to command points. I, for one, would not like spent Command Points to decide who has first go, because then I'm always going to go last.

I also don't like the idea of everyone having split fire.

Terrain having assault phase effects seems pretty silly, too.

Also, I don't like the idea of 18" deployment boundaries.

**Traditio**

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:I, for one, would not like spent Command Points to decide who has first go, because then I'm always going to go last.

I actually don't think this would necessarily be a bad idea.

I can see this being a genuine tactical decision: "Do I go first, but lose command benefits later, or do I let my opponent go first and make him lose most of his?"

**tneva82**

Also on heavily "what-if". Nafka means almost certainly fake though some are probably true due to heavy AOS influence.

Vector Strike wrote:
If we take that 'power fields' are 'invulnerable saves', this make absolutely no sense. Saves are saves - you get to use 1 and that's it. Mortal wounds, at least the one we have seen (Smite psychic power) ignores invulnerable saves.

40k has had that before and really what's different between powerfield&armour and FNP? Both are layered defences. And "realistically" you would hit power field first and even if that's penetrated you would still have armour to go through. It's actually more realistic you get both. Albeit it also leads often too tough heroes which is why it was taken out in the first place...

I think it was already estabilished by GW that they can, but won't give out special rules to different keyword units?

Only proofs we have had so far one way or another:

a) AOS they can't join unit and new 40k is heavily based on AOS
b) in video they mentioned joining(pro-joining) but immediately retracked it saying instead walks nearby(against-joining). Whether that was hint you can't join unit without same keyword or can't join at all and it was slip of tongue out of old habit is unknown.

Hm, ok. Preserves cool dudes.

Fairly weak protection unless there's very major differences in army building.

I get it that a Riptide isn't a character, but a Bloodthirster or Guilliman should be!

Wasn't Guillimann already monster? So no changes there.

Bizarre. In AoS, IIRC, you can deploy wherever you want, but at least 9" from any enemy unit, and there is no scatter. What happens if the enemy moves you unit over his or your own units?

New scatter is the dice rolling thing with possibility of enemy moving. Without scatter dice deep strike was going to change to AOS style but at least they added some form of scatter.

Homing beacon? But is DS doesn't scatter anymore, there's no need for that. Or will they be forced to DS near the psyker?

Or no need to roll if enemy moves models which is the new scatter.

Keep characters but leave challengs out? Hard to believe, but challenges were a pain in the ass anyway. Won't cry if they're gone.

Characters existed long before challenges and if they can't join unit big reason for challenges goes away anyway.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Many of these sound ridiculous, but I'll give my 2 cents on some:

I expect Faith and Orders to be tied to command points. I, for one, would not like spent Command Points to decide who has first go, because then I'm always going to go last.

I doubt core part of rules depend on command points you only get with battleforged armies. That would nerf those units big time in open and narrative games. If sisters identity is built a lot on faith that would basically rip sisters identity out on 2 out of 3 playing styles.

**insaniak**

This list has already been debunked as fake news, so I'm going to go ahead and lock the thread down in an effort to prevent the spread.