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I've just started painting some reaper metal models but I've been having issues with the primer peeling off metal. In fact I was working on a skeleton and just lightly brushed my finger against his knee and a rock and primer started to chip off.

I did wash the model with soap and scrubbed with a toothbrush although i did not soak it in detergent for a long time.

I did one coat of black and did a pre-highlight with the grey to help me see while painting.

I can't remember if it cured 24 hours but I think it did.

I haven't had this issue with plastic, most of the time 1 coat is good enough.

So do I need to do multiple coats with metal mini's?
I'm, doing some testing now where i did 1 black layer, 1 grey, then 1 black, then a light highlight with grey.

also should i really wait 4 hours between each coat? will it make a difference?

doing all this through a patriot 105.

Vallejo PU primer isn't great, but on metal it is useless. Badger Stynylrez is better, but something like mr surfacer has much better grip.

If you can get your hands on Gunze "Mr Metal Primer". It's a primer specifically designed for metals and bites really well (you can also use it on plastic but be really careful because too much will melt plastic).

It comes in spray or brush on, I've only used the brush on. It's a strong lacquer, so use in a well ventilated area and don't huff it.

Downside is, it's clear, so it's hard to tell how much you applied and if you want an actual colour you'll need to hit it with something else afterwards.

My method is to apply a thin coat of the Mr Metal Primer followed by a coat of the primer I use on regular plastics (either Mr Surfacer 1500 or Tamiya rattle can primer).

There's been several threads about this already, honestly you can make it work ...it's just there are better/easier solutions as these guys have pointed out.

I have a TON of Vallejo Surface Primer so that is what I use. First you have to get it on the model right. I do a quick 'dust' layer that's not really visible but it just adds that tackiness to model and I move around to other areas so that dust layer dries.

Then build up the layers etc, don't focus on one area to long in the beginning etc etc ... Finally you have to let it cure. I work 24hour shifts sometimes several days at a time, so I prime before work, then I am not tempted to touch the model until several days have passed.

I've played many games with just 'primed' metal models and the coat was fine. Aerosol primer is still by the far the best on metal though.

Army Painter primer works fine on metals.

are there any primers i can run through an airbrush that will work well?
I prefer that as I have more control.

Lots... again since I have tons of Vallejo Surface Primer that is what I use. There is also Vallejo Air Color primers.

I also like Stynylrez which is another water based primer.

brettdavis1991 wrote:
are there any primers i can run through an airbrush that will work well?
I prefer that as I have more control.

You can run the metal primer I mentioned through an airbrush, but it'll require lacquer thinners and it's best not to use an airbrush that has rubber seals that contact the paint (eg. the aircap seal can be rubber since paint doesn't touch it, but the packing seal should ideally be teflon). That said, I use an airbrush with a rubber packing seal and it hasn't died yet, but that was the advice I was given, lol. I use Gunze's Mr Color Levelling Thinner in my airbrush as it's far gentler than the stuff you'll buy from a hardware store.

You can also use Gunze Mr Surfacer through an airbrush, it's tougher than Vallejo primer but not as tough as the Mr Metal Primer. Again you need to use a lacquer thinner.

If spraying lacquers make sure you aren't inhaling the fumes, they're more dangerous to breathe in than your typical acrylic paints.

Personally I'd probably just get the metal primer rattle can, give the bare metal a quick spray, then just use your regular primer over the top of it. Since the Metal primer is clear anyway, it doesn't really hurt just to lay a regular primer over the top.

There's other options that might also work, but metal primers are.... well.... designed for metal so they tend to have the best bite on metal surfaces.

My suggestion is to not use Vallejo PU primer on anything. Actually avoid any primer that bears the brand Vallejo. Use their paints if you want to, their AIR lane is fantastic, but the primer you can throw it into the bin or use it for terrain projects.

 Gunzhard wrote:

Then build up the layers etc.

how many layers do you do?

disagree with DalinCriid I like the Vallejo Primer very much, and it's done good work for me. I've not had a problem with metals and it, but I only handle the models very carefully and with gloves generally. Nvm what primer I've used.

Obviously others haven't had the same experience. /shrugs that's how it goes sometimes.

@AllSeeingSkink - re: the Mr Metal primer can the leveling thinner be used with Tamiya lacquers? I've got some and haven't really been sure how to thin or clean it up (assuming I ever get my ventilation sorted out)

 Guildenstern wrote:
@AllSeeingSkink - re: the Mr Metal primer can the leveling thinner be used with Tamiya lacquers? I've got some and haven't really been sure how to thin or clean it up (assuming I ever get my ventilation sorted out)

Regular Tamiya paints are either enamel or alcohol based acrylic, the Gunze levelling thinner works brilliant with the Tamiya alcohol based acrylics. The final result is really tough and sprays nicely.

Tamiya do also make a lacquer based primer but I can't say I've ever used it, I'd assume you can thin it with the levelling thinner too because the levelling thinner is also a lacquer.

Tamiya rattle can sprays are lacquers, if you decant some out to spray in your airbrush you can thin them with the levelling thinner too.

 Guildenstern wrote:
disagree with DalinCriid I like the Vallejo Primer very much, and it's done good work for me. I've not had a problem with metals and it, but I only handle the models very carefully and with gloves generally. Nvm what primer I've used.

Obviously others haven't had the same experience. /shrugs that's how it goes sometimes.

The thing about primers, you don't notice until it goes wrong, and when it goes wrong it's sooooo bloody annoying.

I used Vallejo primer for a while and I didn't love the way it sprayed, but it was cheap to airbrush so I used it and because I'm very gentle with my models for a long time I never noticed how weak it was.

When I started handling my models a bit more aggressively to try different techniques I discovered just how weak the Vallejo stuff was.

So even though I'm gentle with my models, I also spend a huge amount of time painting them so I want to use the toughest and smoothest option available, which to me has been Gunze Mr Surfacer 1500 on plastic models and Mr Metal Primer on metals. The Gunze stuff also sprays brilliantly smooth when thinned with the Levelling Thinner, don't use regular hardware store lacquer thinners, they're just way too harsh (though I guess they probably have a lot of bite because they're more than capable of melting plastic, lol).

I use the Vallejo primers exclusively.

No problems.

You must let it cure. 48 hours on metals and it's quite robust.

winterdyne wrote:
I use the Vallejo primers exclusively.

No problems.

You must let it cure. 48 hours on metals and it's quite robust.

Ever tried sanding it?

Yes I have. You can but it's like sanding a rubber (which it effectively is), until it's cured for a LONG time. Attempting at less than 24 hours will peel it, every time. It's not a good surface prep primer.

For surfaces that need sanding or prep, I tend to use surfacing putties or fillers (isopon, milliput mush, polyfilla) prior to the paint primer.

I have in the past used surfacing primers (Mr Surfacer etc), but for the smell, or expense of rattlecans, I've found that degreasing surfaces properly, then using a good putty on it does the job.

For super smooth paint sides (plinths, diorama base sides), on top of the PU primer, I sometimes use a couple of coats of enamel and sand those topcoats.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Guildenstern wrote:
disagree with DalinCriid I like the Vallejo Primer very much, and it's done good work for me. I've not had a problem with metals and it, but I only handle the models very carefully and with gloves generally. Nvm what primer I've used.

Obviously others haven't had the same experience. /shrugs that's how it goes sometimes.

The thing about primers, you don't notice until it goes wrong, and when it goes wrong it's sooooo bloody annoying.

I used Vallejo primer for a while and I didn't love the way it sprayed, but it was cheap to airbrush so I used it and because I'm very gentle with my models for a long time I never noticed how weak it was.

When I started handling my models a bit more aggressively to try different techniques I discovered just how weak the Vallejo stuff was.

So even though I'm gentle with my models, I also spend a huge amount of time painting them so I want to use the toughest and smoothest option available, which to me has been Gunze Mr Surfacer 1500 on plastic models and Mr Metal Primer on metals. The Gunze stuff also sprays brilliantly smooth when thinned with the Levelling Thinner, don't use regular hardware store lacquer thinners, they're just way too harsh (though I guess they probably have a lot of bite because they're more than capable of melting plastic, lol).

Thanks! =D