Space Marines - The problem with an army designed to break the rules.

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**Quickjager**

Everyone is misusing the word gimmick... it's annoying me more than it should. A gimmick is like Space Wolves Tac. Squad having counterattack because if you're charging them to begin with you're expecting to wipe them to a man. Whereas a shooting unit will let them charge in order to overwatch. It's nice, but overall changes nothing in the end against the majority of matchups.

See other things like... Banishment on every GK unit, IG Veteran Squads all having meltabombs, 6++ on every SoB, the Malceptor from the Tyranids, the Eversor death explosion.

Now that's out of the way, the OP obviously is little sensitive to Tau Bashing even though it is well deserved. People complain about atsknf all the time and grav and Imperium deathstar. Eldar is Eldar, but they engage in multiple phases at least. I dunno what the point of this thread is but to be snarky, so don't be suprised when people are snarky right back, especially to I think perhaps one of the most disliked factions after Aeldari and Necrons.

**Quickjager**

master of ordinance wrote:
Okay, from the top:

@ Slayer Fan.
I had a Marine opponent whose chief trick was to run a 5 man Libby Conclave and a triple Vindiderp squadron. He would roll util he got Invisibility and then set up with the Vindicators in a solid wall with the Librarians behind them and then cast Invisibility on them ever single turn. So I had a wall of invisible vindicators advancing towards me, with a unit of Librarians hiding behind them and there was nothing I could do, leastwhys until Sisters of Silence where released last year. Also most of my AT consists of Melta guns with only three Rapiers for support.... You make the call.

@ Tradito
But to make one of my 6 point Veterans a Marine I have to pay (and this is pure theory based on prices in the Inquisition codex in some cases):
1.5 points for Carapace (Grenadiers)
8 points to upgrade it to Power Armour (Inquisitor option)
1 point for Krak Grenades (Guard)
1/2 point(s) for a Bolter (Guard codex again)
That is already 17 points, and not counting ATSKNF or Chapter Tactics or any stat line increases.
Otherwise, it is just the level of stupidly good stuff/formations that they have access too that really just makes facing them un-fun.

@ niy-mizzed
And I have utterly destroyed some Marine lists, but still lost some of those games owing to the sheer mobility that the Marines have, allowing them to capture objectives whilst I cannot even leave my deployment zone for fear of assaults and if I do still be unable to make it to the objective fast enough..

Psst, use a higher ppm unit to highlight the difference... like Militarum Tempestus. Also speaking of Militarum Tempestus, your previous post MT could do 2/3rds of what you listed ATSKNF being the exception.