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Hey, I'm fairly new to warhammer, I just had a few questions I couldn't find answers to. if someone could help a lad out that'd be awesome.

1) in the new kits do the transfer sheets not have any of the campaign badges? i heard it was just ultramarine transfers, wasn't sure if that included the campaign badges though.

2) does the land speeder storm point cost (40 points i believe) include the scouts in the back of the vehicle? or do i have to add the points cost of a scout squad? and can these scouts fire as normal from the land speeder?

3) would anyone foresee any issues with me using cadian shock troops in my space marine army?

4) what units like the land speeder storm have the Jamming ability? I'd like to use this to put beside my devastator squads to prevent people from dropping on top of them

5) does a bulldozer on the front of a predator raise it's frontal armour by +1?

and finally, 6) i was planning on doing a very defensive army, is that a viable strategy or do i usually have to move forward to capture objectives?

THANK YOU, to anyone who can answers these questions for a newb.
Cheers.

benlac wrote:
Hey, I'm fairly new to warhammer, I just had a few questions I couldn't find answers to. if someone could help a lad out that'd be awesome.

1) in the new kits do the transfer sheets not have any of the campaign badges? i heard it was just ultramarine transfers, wasn't sure if that included the campaign badges though.

I have no idea what you mean by this. You can probably Google image search the transfer sheets.

2) does the land speeder storm point cost (40 points i believe) include the scouts in the back of the vehicle? or do i have to add the points cost of a scout squad? and can these scouts fire as normal from the land speeder?

It does not include the scouts, it acts as a transport. So you can purchase and deploy it on its own, and scouts can get in and out of it during the game, or you can purchase it as an add-on transport to pre-existing squad of scouts.

3) would anyone foresee any issues with me using cadian shock troops in my space marine army?

Yes, you have to make sure you are following the rules for detachments and alliances. The rules are about to change drastically so it's impossible to say fore sure how it will work in the new edition.

4) what units like the land speeder storm have the Jamming ability? I'd like to use this to put beside my devastator squads to prevent people from dropping on top of them

Again, we're not even sure any units at all will have that rule in 8th edition.

5) does a bulldozer on the front of a predator raise it's frontal armour by +1?

No.

and finally, 6) i was planning on doing a very defensive army, is that a viable strategy or do i usually have to move forward to capture objectives?

You can play both ways, you just have to tailor your list to meet your goals. Seeing that the new edition is about to come out, I would wait until the rules are released. Then I would study them to get a better idea of what you want to do.

Welcome to Warhammer!

2 months ago, I knew the answers to some of these questions.

However, a new edition is imminent, and nearly all old bets are off.

1)I don't recall seeing campaign badges on any transfer sheets. I'm happy to be corrected on that.

2) Old answer in general: It's a vehicle. Anyone in the vehicle costs extra. I would be surprised if that changed, but, as far as I'm aware, nobody except GW knows yet.

3) It depends. If a one off, "these Cadians are actually Scouts: I'm proxying to see what they're like" : no issue. "These are terminators" I struggle a bit. "These are space marines in light armour" "OK that'll be whatever the cadians save is then.... "This is a mixed Imperial force" "OK then" so long as I don't think you're cherrypicking. As above, in a month or n, the rules change, and "bring whatever you like" seems to be a thing. Personally, I prefer to have a fair idea of what's what at a fairly short glance.

4) Pass. Didn't know. Guess it may or may not change soon.

5) As above, irrelevant - might change shortly - or might not.

6) If the mission is capture objectives, expect me to come for yours and defend my own.

4)

great, thanks for the info. kind of an annoying time to be building an army with the new edition coming out soon. i guess all advice you give me is subject to potentially changing in the near future

in the meantime, what do you guys think of an army list that goes something like:
-2 devastator squads (1 w/ las, las, missile, missile) (1 w/ heavy b, heavy b, plas can, plas can)
-2 tactical (1 w/ multi melta, flamer, chainsword bp sergeant) (1 w/ multi melta, plasma gun, combi plasma)
-2 scout (1 w/ melee weapons & bp's) (1 w/ snipers & cloaks)
-1 whirlwind
-1 pred
-1 land speeder storm

if i set my devastators back with my whirlwind and land speeder (to use jamming), do you think this is a good strategy? do you find devastators get rushes a lot by assault troops?

Thanks

benlac wrote:
great, thanks for the info. kind of an annoying time to be building an army with the new edition coming out soon. i guess all advice you give me is subject to potentially changing in the near future

in the meantime, what do you guys think of an army list that goes something like:
-2 devastator squads (1 w/ las, las, missile, missile) (1 w/ heavy b, heavy b, plas can, plas can)
-2 tactical (1 w/ multi melta, flamer, chainsword bp sergeant) (1 w/ multi melta, plasma gun, combi plasma)
-2 scout (1 w/ melee weapons & bp's) (1 w/ snipers & cloaks)
-1 whirlwind
-1 pred
-1 land speeder storm

if i set my devastators back with my whirlwind and land speeder (to use jamming), do you think this is a good strategy? do you find devastators get rushes a lot by assault troops?

Thanks

To the last point, no. Battle Cannons and Earthshaker Cannons tend to make them become a non-problem for me real fast.

I might suggest having an Aegis Barricade if your plan is to hide in the back. It will save your Devastators some, and everyone can hide behind it.

I would also not have Devastators with Heavy Bolters or Plasma Cannons, they'll perform better with missiles or Lascannons. Your tactical squads are plenty good at killing enemy infantry. In this edition, I might have suggested not having multimeltas an flamers in the same unit, but next edition is granting split fire across the board, so it doesn't seem so bad now.

I'd also get some FlaK in that list.

Finally look into razorback transports for your troopers [make 5-man tactical squads]. At worst, they'll add a few TL Lascannons and Assault Cannons to your gunline on platforms that take a bit of work to crack, but you can also use them to transport your marines forward and to claim objectives in the midfield, giving you a lot of tactical flexibility. With multimeltas and flamers, you're going to have to get close to the enemy, and you're not going to make it on foot.

You'll also need at least one HQ unit so don't forget about that.

Woah, I didn't know you could have barricades. I found info online saying it's 50 points for an Aegis Defense Line, but not how much each type of gun emplacement is. Can I opt out of using the gun that comes with the Aegis?
Is there anywhere that lists all the points of different defensive lines & emplacements?

I can use FlaK missiles from my 2 missile launchers, right? Is that respectable enough for anti-air in a small point army?

Hm, in my mind I saw the devastators covering the advancing tact squads, but I guess they move pretty slowly. If I'm doing transport, since I already have 2 dev squads do you think it makes more sense to use Rhinos for cheaper points? How many las cannons/missile launchers is a good amount for an army this size? I did want to go a little harder on the devastator infantry in this (more than one squad). Can plasma cannons take out tanks as well? I thought they could take out most things.

Any recommendations for a good HQ that could benefit the defensive strategy? I read that techmarines offered +1 to cover saves which might be cool to add for my scout snipers or if I use the barricade. Can I use the techmarine as an HQ?
Could I dedicate a sergeant as an HQ or does it actually have to be a legit HQ model?

Afte more reading it seems people aren't too fond of whirlwinds, maybe I won't field one of those.
What are the chances my devastators squads take artillery fire if i camp them at the back? Is that a fairly common thing? Would the Aegis realistically help them? Does it prevent assaults to some degree?

Thanks again, you're awesome.

benlac wrote:
Woah, I didn't know you could have barricades. I didn't see that anywhere, though I haven't thoroughly combed the rulebook or codex yet. How many points is it to field a barricade? Can I use the gun emplacement as well?
or is this like a special scenario thing only?

I can use FlaK missiles from my missile launchers, right? Is that respectable enough for anti-air in a small point army?

Hm, in my mind I saw the devastators covering the advancing tact squads, but I guess they move pretty slowly. If I'm doing transport, since I already have 2 dev squads do you think it makes more sense to use Rhinos for cheaper points? How many las cannons/missile launchers is a good amount for an army this size? I did want to go a little harder on the devastator infantry in this (more than one squad). Can plasma cannons take out tanks as well? I thought they could take out most things.

Any recommendations for a good HQ that could benefit the defensive strategy? I read that techmarines offered +1 to cover saves which might be cool to add for my scout snipers or if I use the barricade. Can I use the techmarine as an HQ?
Could I dedicate a sergeant as an HQ or does it actually have to be a legit HQ model?

Afte more reading it seems people aren't too fond of whirlwinds, maybe I won't field one of those.
What are the chances my devastators squads take artillery fire if i camp them at the back? Is that a fairly common thing? Would the Aegis barricade realistically help them? Does the barricade prevent assaults to some degree too?

Thanks again, you're awesome.

Plasma Cannons don't kill tanks. And it looks like, in the new edition, you're going to want Lascannons anyway.

Whirlwinds aren't that bad, but they're outclassed by other factions' [Read: Imperial Guard] artillery. Being able to reach over cover and flush out infantry is good, but it's only really effective against light troops like Guardsmen, so you'll find it's better just to go out there and dig them out with your troops.

Barricades are found currently in Planetary Onslaught. There are several fortification options available to you, the best of which is the Aegis Defense Barricade. It can have a Quad Gun emplacement, and this is adequate for antiair against all but the most flyer-heavy list. The Quad Gun doubles the price of the barricade, but is generally a better investment than FlaK Missiles, and even with the Quad Gun, the barricade isn't super points-intensive. It also technically makes charges 2" harder to make through it, but almost everyone has Frag grenades and so ignore that effect.

Rhinos are okay. But, keep in mind, if you have 4 squads of 5 in Razorbacks you have 4 tanks they have to crack, and you have a total of 8 units that can potentially secure an objective. If you have 2 squads of 10 in rhinos, they only have to break open 2 tanks to get at your guys, who are also all stuck together, so you only have 4 units to send after objectives.

I'm not sure how many points that is, so I can't say for sure how many Lascannons is too many Lascannons. You definitely have more tank killing than you need [between the Predator, the 2 Devastator units, and the Multimeltas], I think, at that size game though.

You can turn a model into a Company Commander model, but your HQ cannot just be a random sergeant from your army.

As far as getting bombed out by artillery: stay flexible. The answer depends on your opponent. My Imperial Guardsmen will absolute drop earthshaker shells that ignore your armour and your cover all over you, and you will spontaneously cease to exist. But my Space Wolves have an approximately 0% chance of hitting you with any artillery whatsoever, because I don't have any. And my Sisters have Exorcists, but they're going to be targeting your tanks.

hm ok, so what do you think would be a good composition for 2 dev squads? Almost all las cannons and missile launchers?

Do you typically win games more by holding onto objectives or by destroying your opponent?

Maybe to compromise I can do 2 razorbacks and a rhino, since I already have a pred annihilator. seems like i'm going las cannon crazy at this point lol.

can a tech marine be a company commander? are there any better defensive HQ choices you're aware of?

I guess I will know before deployment what my opponent has, so I can put X number of troops in the Aegis DL accordingly. For ex. if I was facing your artillery heavy IG, I would just throw one Dev in there or maybe just the scout snipers and spread the rest elsewhere, whereas if it's your SW's I'd throw 2 or 3 behind the defesne line and hunker down in there.

What is the most common strategy you see out there? I would naturally assume people are fairly vehicle and elite unit heavy if I were to guess.

benlac wrote:
hm ok, so what do you think would be a good composition for 2 dev squads? Almost all las cannons and missile launchers?

Do you typically win games more by holding onto objectives or by destroying your opponent?

Maybe to compromise I can do 2 razorbacks and a rhino, since I already have a pred annihilator. seems like i'm going las cannon crazy at this point lol.

can a tech marine be a company commander? are there any better defensive HQ choices you're aware of?

I guess I will know before deployment what my opponent has, so I can put X number of troops in the Aegis DL accordingly. For ex. if I was facing your artillery heavy IG, I would just throw one Dev in there or maybe just the scout snipers and spread the rest elsewhere, whereas if it's your SW's I'd throw 2 or 3 behind the defesne line and hunker down in there.

What is the most common strategy you see out there? I would naturally assume people are fairly vehicle and elite unit heavy if I were to guess.

I use straight lascannons on Longfangs. Sometimes missile launchers, but never FlaK launchers.

Holding objectives, every day,

There is such a thing as "too many lascannons", because lascannons are expensive. Razorbacks can have assault cannons too, for mulching infantry. You should consider what the unit's role is, and if it really needs to have a Lascannon to do that.

I don't know. I use Rune Priests and Bran Redmaw, and don't know what regular SM's have for HQ options.

No, I don't see a lot of tanks. Mostly I see Riptides. I played in a doubles tournament a few weeks ago, and I saw Wolfstars, Daemons summoning Daemons, flying Hive Tyrants, Riptides and Broadsides, Dreadknights, Scatterbikes, Necron Airwing, and one Guard guy with mechvets and two Ork guys with green tides.



To be honest, I don't actually think a SM Gunline is that good. I've face it with my guardsmen, and as I said, ImpyGuard is just better at being a gunline than the Spare Marines. But, I cracked open my Space Wolves codex and tried my hand at making a shooty gunline for them:
100-Inquisitor Coteaz
110-Rune Priest [Librarian], ML2, Runic Armor
110-Rune Priest [Librarian], ML2, Runic Armor
85-Grey Hunters [Tactical], Plasmagun
75-Assault Cannon Razorback
85-Grey Hunters [Tactical], Plasmagun
75-Assault Cannon Razorback
85-Grey Hunters [Tactical], Plasmagun
75-Lascannon Razorback
85-Grey Hunters [Tactical], Plasmagun
75-Lascannon Razorback
120-Vindicator
140-Predator, 3x Lascannon
155-Long Fangs [Devastators], 4x Lascannon
100-Aegis Barricade + Quad Gun
1475

Hm, I just came from another thread where people were saying they didn't bother with Heavy Bolters in their Dev squads as there were cheaper ways to have heavy bolters; which makes sense to me given that scouts can take them. Maybe I will set up my dev's like so:
Las x2
Missile x2
and
Missile x2
Plas can x2
(i'm limited by the parts I have or else I would do more las cannons)

and then I can put autocannons on 2 razorbacks, and have my pred w/ 4 las cannons, and a rhino with a dude popping out of the hatch multimelta style.

I have no idea what riptides even means, lol. but that sounds like a rush or swarm army? or is that a tank... -_-

So, if you do a combat squad of 5, you can have 1 special weapon, but no heavy? right?

Seems like a lot of priest in your army, but I don't know anything about hq's at this point, so yeah.
This may sound stupid, but how does your predator have 3 lascannons? does it have one sponson with a heavy bolter?
You wouldn't bother with melta guns at all? Do you figure you have enough las to handle tanks that you'd rather do plasmaguns in the squads, then?
Grav's seem expensive to me.

What are your thoughts on scouts? I initially thought they were lame, but then I was reading their praises quite a bit, they seem like a cheaper way to hold objectives while still being decent in combat.

benlac wrote:
Hm, I just came from another thread where people were saying they didn't bother with Heavy Bolters in their Dev squads as there were cheaper ways to have heavy bolters; which makes sense to me given that scouts can take them. Maybe I will set up my dev's like so:
Las x2
Missile x2
and
Missile x2
Plas can x2
(i'm limited by the parts I have or else I would do more las cannons)

and then I can put autocannons on 2 razorbacks, and have my pred w/ 4 las cannons, and a rhino with a dude popping out of the hatch multimelta style.

I have no idea what riptides even means, lol. but that sounds like a rush or swarm army? or is that a tank... -_-

So, if you do a combat squad of 5, you can have 1 special weapon, but no heavy? right?

Seems like a lot of priest in your army, but I don't know anything about hq's at this point, so yeah.
This may sound stupid, but how does your predator have 3 lascannons? does it have one sponson with a heavy bolter?
You wouldn't bother with melta guns at all? Do you figure you have enough las to handle tanks that you'd rather do plasmaguns in the squads, then?
Grav's seem expensive to me.

What are your thoughts on scouts? I initially thought they were lame, but then I was reading their praises quite a bit, they seem like a cheaper way to hold objectives while still being decent in combat.

Wolf scouts are garbage. Really, really bad. I don't know about vanilla marine scouts, I gather they're supposed to be pretty good.

Rune Priests are the equivalent of Librarians, and Space Wolves require 2 HQ's in a force.

I have no idea what the rules for Heavy/Special weapon allocation for vanilla marines is. Space Wolves get 1 Special Weapon per 5 men, no Heavy Weapons.

A Predator has 3 guns: 1 Twin-Linked Lascannon [Turret], and 2 regular Lascannons [Sponson].

I'd rather have plasma in my gunline for the range. Between a Predator and the Devastators and the Razorbacks and the Vindicator, that's a lot of antitank. I'd rather have plasma than melta most times. At 24", you can hit, and at 12" you get a bonus shot, making it better for killing monstrous creatures and heavy infantry.

Riptides are these big Tau battlesuits that have a bunch of wounds, a 2+ save, are toughness 6, are Jetpack Monstrous Creatures, and have either a massive gatling gun or a giant ion cannon [basically Lascannon-stats 5" blast]. Tau players like to bring 3 of them at a time. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tau-Empire-XV104-Riptide-Battlesuit

Ah right, I was counting the twin-linked as 2.

Yeah that makes sense for using plasma weapons. if your squad has varying ranges on their weapons I could see that being sub-optimal.

I guess I will have to wait until the new rules come out to see what's best for Dev's. I'm pretty sure some guy said that Heavy Bolters are going to be better in this coming edition, but for now with so many bolters in my squads as is I think I will stick to las cannons, missile launchers and plasma cannons.

Anyway, thanks for your help. You rule.
I'll have to tweak this army a bit to make it more objective-y than before. In my mind I thought I could set up camp and make people come to me, but I guess that's not so.

benlac wrote:
Ah right, I was counting the twin-linked as 2.

Yeah that makes sense for using plasma weapons. if your squad has varying ranges on their weapons I could see that being sub-optimal.

I guess I will have to wait until the new rules come out to see what's best for Dev's. I'm pretty sure some guy said that Heavy Bolters are going to be better in this coming edition, but for now with so many bolters in my squads as is I think I will stick to las cannons, missile launchers and plasma cannons.

Anyway, thanks for your help. You rule.
I'll have to tweak this army a bit to make it more objective-y than before. In my mind I thought I could set up camp and make people come to me, but I guess that's not so.

Camping in a box doesn't work well at all.

The game is won in the objectives. With the Eternal War missions it's possible to stay in the box, shoot the enemy away, then advance and capture at the end, but with Maelstrom of War it's absolutely essential to have a lot of scoring units and be able to get to any objective in about the span of a turn.


Anyway, glad to help, and may the Emperor smile upon your Space Marines.

lol, thanks. now just to think of a name for my army... maybe the Space Cats?

but actually i was thinking The Alpha Centurions, as like a play on the star system Alpha Centari and the Roman Centurions, but then I realized Centurions were a thing in 40k already, not to mention it's kind of a mouthful..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, does a scope on a bolter do anything or is it just for show?

and, do you think it's worth it to bring an auspex on a tact squad? my initial feeling is probably not.

Rome had legionairies, maybe call them the alpha legion?

that's not bad, but isn't that a Chaos chapter already..?

benlac wrote:
that's not bad, but isn't that a Chaos chapter already..?

That's the joke.

oh. i get jokes.

looking at your list again, i noticed you didn't take any combi weapons. do you find that combi's aren't worth it for the one off shot at 10 points each?

Thanks again