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 Galas wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Perhaps girlyman's mythical super-ultra marines are simply female marines.

Female Space Marines will make excelent Khorne Berzerkers, with all of the red rage and all...

Spoiler:

Sorry I'll go back to my cave now...

Someone beat you to that joke already.

 Galas wrote:
I think I understand it, but he talks to fast and with a strong accent to me to understand.

Can you transcript what he says, please? (I'm not saying this to make a joke on you or anything)

Zoranthebear aka Leman Russ wrote:To the Sisters of Battle:

"Daemons of Khorne are goin' to eat ya out like ice cream sandwiches once you're Red Rage begins"

 Wulfmar wrote:
Just like the Norovirus, this topic comes around at least once a year and results in explosive volumes of.... *ahem* posted.

Can we just skip the whole pretense and just get straight to the arguments of sexism in our modern society, gender stereotyping and people pretending to understand GW financial reports and sales strategy regarding plastic boobplate?

If the whole point of modeling boobplate is to get people to buy the models, GW is doing something wrong.

On the topic of getting our britches twisted because "secksizm" and "muh gender stereotypes," the more people say it disturbs them, the more I think it should stay because after all, Warhammer 40k should always be a dystopia.

epronovost wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
There we are. You're applying modern values and expectations to a setting that's more in common with the middle ages than our own.

Not to mention that you're using a stereotype of modern times to justify something thousands of years in the future.
Not quite what I'd call evidence.

Space Marines are a modern creation by modern men for consomption by modern persons as entertainment. They aren't a social thought experiment on gender stereotype in the far future. They are the exact opposite. They are the product of our vision of what a perfect monastic soldier should be and look like in a science fanstasy setting. Its a typical power fantasy. There is no denying it. Space marine are strongly gendered and explicitly so.

All of Warhammer is Macho as hell. Being effeminate won't help when that Tyranid just wants to eat your face.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

You can also have a very strong friendship and not call it love.

You can also have a very stong friendship and call it love. Both are just as likely and possible depending on your interpretation of some cues, inuendo and events.

The word "Love" in the English language is far too limiting and no, both are not as likely to happen. Keep your homoerotic headcanon at home.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

With the amount of drugs they'd be pumped up with? All of them look like bodybuilders - no graces, just sheer muscle. There's pictures that support that notion - it's not "based on nothing concrete". It's canon. That's what a Space Marines looks like not because he's male, but because of the sheer testosterone in his system. If you're insinuating otherwise, could you show me a picture of a Space Marine out of armour who doesn't look like a weightlifter? I see them looking far more like Hafthor Bjornsson than Bruce Lee.

Most images in my opinion, especially those of scouts (who are the most useful since its easier to see their mensuration) makes them look more like Heavy or Welterweight boxers or martial artists. Several of those at the bottom of this entry on Wikia are good example of this. Note the two Raven Guards with the snipers, the Space Wolf and the Imperial Fist at the top. They are too slim to be proper bodybuilder and to lean and tall to be good weightlifters, but have the proper appearence to be tough soldiers. I can easily imagine a tough women with similar mensuration and she would still look feminine.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Scout_Marines

You seem to forget that Astartes are 8 feet tall. Their muscle mass is proportioned to their height.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Why is having a difference between men and women an issue that you wish to distinguish? They're both superhumans hopped up on god knows how many drugs and hormones - why would they look any different?

Why don't you think women shouldn't look like massive bodybuilders, like the normal marines look like?

Why don't you want them to be different? Does the idea of a women super soldier, stronger than any men displeases you particularly?

I already mention why its interesting to a have Space Marine women, because they bring a greater aesthetic diversity. I like to see men and women in a model army because they bring a bit of variety and a slight touch of originality to the hole.

Since I personnaly think that Marines aren't forced to look like bodybuilders (even if some will look like so) i think this question answers itself. Since God knows how many drugs and hormones are pumped into them, we don't know how they would look like either. They could remain very feminine for all we know since, even amongst women bodybuilders, many still look feminine. It could even make them look even more feminine for all we know.

Greater aesthetic diversity ha. Good meme. They pump these kids full of Testosterone before they hit puberty. You'd still get ordinary Astartes.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

If they're weaker, then why are they accepted in? If they can't match the basic standard of a Space Marine, then they're not up to snuff. They'd make a brilliant SoB or Guardwoman though.

What about male marines who are a little bit weaker but nimbler than their brethren? Are they still inducted, despite not meeting the requirement? Is there a different standard for gender? Why?

Weaker in terms of physical might doesn't mean worse in combat in general. Strength is one of the many, many factor that makes a good solider and in a form of warfare mostly done at range with guns and canons, it's not even a vital one either.

Astartes are shock troopers. They aren't shooting the enemy more than they are punching them.

There is already weaker, but nimbler marines. Abbadon was much stronger than Loken who was himself stronger than Lucius who happens to be better swordsmen than both of them becasue he's more nimble and agile.

Lucius is a better swordsman because he has technique. You think someone so nimble and agile would get punched in the nose like a chump?

Its the same thing for all of them. Why would you think the requirements to become a Space Marine involve strength test?

They are looking for the cream of the crop. If that means weeding out the 99 to get that juicy 100th candidate, so be it.

Why would it be the only test or the most important one? If so, girls will outperform boys on average since between the age of 10 and 14 years old (the prime age of recruitment for Space Marines), girls are taller, heavier and stronger than boys on average. The situation reverse itself around the age of 16-18 years old, but at that point, Marines are already on the battlefield serving in Scout units. Nowhere do I mention that women would have different test than men, simply that most of them might be in the lower tier within their chapter in terms of physical strength, but that this apparent weakness can be compensated by other qualities much like Space Marine men who are in the same situation.

[insert obligatory "Maybe it's because they need a Y-Chromosome" here]

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Yes, but all Space Marines look "ultra-butch". Seriously, find one that doesn't. Just one Marine who doesn't look like a bodybuilder. Of course there's variety, but not an entirely new build.

There's my reasoning for FeMarines looking like bodybuilders - because ALL Space Marines do.

There's my reasoning, Space Marines women would look like women because women bodybuilder, Heavyweight and Welterweight boxers, or even soldier women look like women not like men at all. The difference in term of aesthetic is obvious. Even if I was to admit all Space Marines look like bodybuilders (I think they look like strong soldiers, but not like bodybuilders), your argument for them being identical to men to point where the difference is moot is a bit strange. Plus, considering that we are talking about changing the apperance of (some) Space Marines saying that they all look the same, thus should keep on looking the same is a fallacious appeal to tradition.

Appeal to tradition Pump a bunch of pre-pubescent kids full of Testosterone and they'll all start to look alike.

It doesn't make any sense for them to look the same if we make them different.

We aren't making them differently. You said that yourself.

NuMarines can be both for all I care. They'll turn into Spartans from the Halo franchise minus the kidnappings.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Sorry I haven't read the whole conversation and I don't know how relevant it is but you can have a character that looks both VERY bulky and distinctly feminine.
Glory is great at this :
http://mooncalfe.deviantart.com/gallery/33270379/Glory
(That's not even her final form btw ^^)
Or, Mountain Girl?
(nsfw nudity)

Spoiler:

http://mooncalfe.deviantart.com/gallery/3812321/Mountain-Girl

Of all the things that are distinct about Glory, femininity is not one of them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So do we get male Sisters Of Battle if we get female Space Marines?

Nobody ever answers that question.

Nobody asked because some of us don't like putting well established fluff on the chopping block.

 Galas wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So do we get male Sisters Of Battle if we get female Space Marines?

Nobody ever answers that question.

Nobody asked because some of us don't like putting well established fluff on the chopping block.

Personally, that all the figures the Sisters of Battle obey are male is to me even more "offensive" that only male Space Marines
But whell, thats their fluff. The Brides of the Emperor were originally the sex-bodyguards of Vandire.

Actually the Sororitas pretty much operate on their own and bow to Inquisitors of the Ordo Hereticus if they bow to anyone else at all.

The Special Characters are all men, but women priests definitely exist in the fluff. Now only if GW could make some female models

 Vulkan Fran'cis wrote:
Female space marines already exist, they are called the Sisters of Battle. All that needs to happen is for them to have a supported and good quality model line and then thats that.

Everyone is waiting. Maybe 8th will be their time to shine.

 Vulkan Fran'cis wrote:
Exaclty why not have Marines as the 'All-male army' then have Sisters as the'All-Female' army, then have mechanicus, guard, inquistion and all other aspects of the imperium go the mixed gender route.

In the case of Xenos, just add more mixed groups in Eldar. The other races either dont make it obvious or just dont have them.

Are the Mechanicum even human enough for us to distinguish male from female?

I've seen a lot of "I'd like them to add females to Guard/Admech/etc but only if they do it with class" and I'd like a clarification if "with class" only means no boob-plate. From what I've seen in other threads, it's rather hard to make an explicitly female sculpt in 28mm without the boob-plate indicator. What if GW made female sculpts but they had boob-plate? Would there be outrage or would you be ok with your female models or somewhere in the middle of those two?

(Personally, Guard needs a new poster child regiment since Cadia got Alderaan'd and it doesn't make any sense for Admech to make female parts since their whole schtick is to be less human.)

 Souleater wrote:
Some Sob players might accept males in order to get actual plastic sisters of battle.

I do wonder how much I can troll local SW players by making a force of female primaris marines decened from their genestock...the Wolf Sistern!

Or we could not have Male SoB because redacting the whole Age of Apostasy would be stupid.