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Nuck Fewton wrote:
So I'm a new guard player starting up a Mordian army. Looks like I'm gonna have to convert my plasma guns. Any other suggestions of stuff I should be kitbashing off the start? I love the look of the Mordians so taking the doctrine is no sweat for me. Are scout sentinels worth anything any more? I was thinking heavy bolters on them with HK missiles.

Scout sentinels with autocannons and HK's have done decent work for me, fairly cheap and they're capable of knocking a couple of wounds off most things while not being threatening enough to get shot quickly provided you have other vehicles in play that you're opponent will probably want to shoot first. Main reason to take them remains the anti deepstrike bubble of course but if you've got the points to spare they're not a bad choice.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Someone at GW spent a LONG time talking about the values of arguably the worst unit in the guard codex...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/13/much-ado-about-deathstrikes-apr-12gw-homepage-post-3/

That article just made me realise that the earthshaker outranges the deathstrike, so either the deathstrike is a really bad ICBM or the earthshaker has a stupendous range, or GW's fluff is once again at odds with in game rules.

Scion command squads can take vox and medicae kits now without gimping themselves so much which is nice, not particularly competitive but nice.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:
So, with the huge nerfs to turn 1 DS, the ruling on preventing charges to units in ruins, and the limiting of everyone els's big guns to 0-3 while we can potentially field up to 9 Basilisks/Russes. Are guard back in play as mono faction in competitive?

(Lord commissar version thanks to how he works with the FAQ makes conscripts useable outside valhallans and is dirt cheap)

Lord commissar's seem like they'd be decent even with infantry squads now tbh, 30 points for +2 leadership and reroll morale isn't that bad, and they can function as a hail mary melee character if you get charged. Not amazing by a long shot but they can help a little now as opposed to before.

Edit: So I just realised something, with the new data sheet limitation you're limited to a max of 12 leman russ's (3 squadrons of 3 and 3 TC), in the index however Leman russ's and Leman russ demolisher's were separate datasheets. Would that not mean you could get a total of 21 russ's ( 3 squadrons of 3 russ's, 3 squadrons of 3 demolisher's, and 3 TC) using the index?

For matched play he's decent but only being able to drop on turns 2-3 hurts and limits his ability to go back into reserve and hit again.

Why only deepstrike on turns 2-3? His explosives ability only states that he has to arrive on the field, it doesn't state where, couldn't you just deepstrike into your deployment zone turn 1 (in keeping with the new reserves rule) then carry on like normal on turns 2 and 3?.

So what are people's thoughts on the leman Russ annihilator? Im thinking of grabbing one to switch out the turret on the second hand vanquisher I got a while back.

thanks for the feedback guys, think i'm gonna grab one next time I order off forgeworld, they just look so cool and it's nice to hear it'll be better AT than the vanquisher at least.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Well after this FAQ My manticores are up on EBAY

How come? Manticore's didn't get touched in the FAQ.

 necron99 wrote:
So what's everyone's impression of hellhounds? I was going to drop my two wyverns for two hellhounds.

I like them, only used 1 in 1 low point game so far against my friend's eldar, it did decent work burning up his aspect warriors then won me the game by exploding next to his farseer and killing him when my friend finally managed to kill it.

AstraVlad wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Outshadowed by basilisk though.

I really struggle to understand why people like Basilisks. I have one because I like the model, but I can never find a proper place for it in my lists. For a little over 100 pts. you get an average of 4 shots per turn, resulting in 2 hits (BS 4+) and after to-wound and save rolls you will probably end with one wound for D3 damage. It is pathetic. You can not use it to hunt elite infantry because it lacks volume of fire, you can not use it against vehicles or monsters because it deals too little damage per wound... basically you can not use it for anything. And the model itself is so big that you can not expect to hide it out of LOS that is critical for it's survival (T6 and 11 wounds is not a big deal).

If GW gave them an ability to shoot twice like LRs do, or boost BS to 3+ and damage to D6 (or better D3+3) they could be good, but now they are meh.

I like them because I play cadians and i have a bad habit of rolling 1's, the extra point of AP comes in handy sometimes too. and i'd disagree with your point about targeting it at vehicles or monster's, it does the same damage per hit as the manticore but with an extra AP, my basilisk has done consistent work against enemy vehicles since i've started using it.

Scion Plasma is expensive but it's also very good, 5 man unit with 2 bs3+ plasma guns with deepstrike for only 74pt's is a steal, throw in a tempestor to grant them reroll 1's overcharge them and have field day deleting much more expensive light armour.

Scions big issue typically is that they tend to die after dropping in, you drop in, get a round of shooting off then the scions get deleted in the following turn, so you want to make sure they hit as hard as they can on the first round, plasma gives you a wide range of targets you can make your points back against whereas hotshots are much more limiting due to the strength 3. Something else to note is that hotshots have 18" range, so they don't get to rapid fire on the drop as you have to be at or within 9" to rapid fire and you have to deepstrike them 9" away from enemy models.

As for volley guns, i enjoy them simply because they put out so many shots but i wouldn't expect them to accomplish miracles, being a heavy weapon they're -1 to hit on the turn they drop in which can really hurt them. they do chew stuff up though when they hit, S4 -2AP with 4 shots does some real damage when you find a good target for them.

So having recently acquired a shadowsword what's the verdict on the best doctrine for it? Cadian or catachan would both be nice buffs to it's offensive output but tallarn seems pretty useful for making sure it survives the first turn and vahallan for making sure that degrading is less of an issue.

Hemlocks are a bitch to deal with if they're alatoic, -2 to hit is a bitch to deal with as guard and their maneuverability let's them completely dictate the range, D-scythe let's them mess your vehicle's up nicely as well. Hellhounds are your best bet against it due to the autohitting and similar ranges for the scythe and inferno cannon. From personal experience against them either have a plan to kill it turn 1 or just ignore it and murder the rest of his army, otherwise you'll just waste so much shooting on it that could be killing other things.

 Colonel Cross wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Niiru wrote:

I mean, if you don't know that Commissars are iconic command units for the Imperial Guard, I'm not sure you're on the right forum lol.

They're not "iconic command units" to anyone except those who don't actually know the Guard. There's one iconic Commissar-Commander and his name is Ibram Gaunt. He was notable for him being an exception, not the rule.

Commissars are regimental advisors. They're morale officers, not battlefield commanders.

Exactly, I'm not sure Niiru should be calling out my knowledge of the fluff after collecting guard and reading their books for over 20 years ...

plenty of fluff has commisar's attached to, working alongside or even bossing around small groups or squads of guardsmen. They might be outside of the chain of command but they're still capable of influencing it, especially in small scale engagements.

the issue with wyverns is that they provide nothing mortars don't already do while being a damn sight more expensive. Sure wyverns got to reroll wounds but at that price point you're comparing 4d6 shots to 9d6 shots which can become reroll all misses if they're cadian and ordered or just gain rerolls 1 to hit/wound if they're other regiments. sure they're tougher and have a better svae but they're also a single model with a degrading statline as well.

If ork titanic units ever somehow become a threat then yarrick next to a shadowsword is probable the nastiest hard counter in existence. +1 to hit, rerolling all misses and wounds, and thats you before you add in regimental buffs. you lose the +1 and reroll wounds against non titanic but lets be real, you're wounding pretty much everything in the game on 2's anyway, and a shadowsword rerolling all misses is still a very scary prospect.

 Dynas wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
Vostroyan Order lets a unit shoot their weapons at a unit they are in combat with.

Valhallan Order lets a unit shoot their weapons at a unit that is in combat.

If squad A is in combat then Squad B can't shoot into the combat with the Vostroyan order (unless B is in the same combat).
With the Valhallan order Squad B can shoot at the enemy unit that is fighting A without being in that combat.

So for Voystoryan, my unit A is in melee with genestealers. I can shoot them with unit A even though its in combat, then fight it with unit A. If I had another nearby unit, that unit would NOT be able to shoot those genestealers.

Valhallan, unit a A in combat with Genestealers, and another unit B can shoot into that combat and possibly kill my own guys from unit A. But unit A would not be able to shoot the genestealers.

which is why you use flamethrowers. We have somehow ended up at a point where the safest way to kill enemies who are mixed in with a friendly unit is to use flamethrowers, in defiance of all logic. that aside it means valhallan sws's with flamers have a use as backup to normal infantry squads.

Regardless of the nerfs/buffs we receive we can at least console ourselves with the fact we're getting 5 formations in the vigilus campaign book. Given the number and seeming variety of formations we're getting there's decent odds we get at least one or two useful formations.Personally I'm hoping that that Assault company does something for chimera's, I'd like to be able to field them without feeling like i'm gimping myself.

So the emperor's fist warlord trait will make mordian russ's pretty hilarious, hitting on 4's rerolling all misses in overwatch with the warlord trait, regimental trait, and defensive gunners stacked on top of each other. You'll lose the offensive output that catachan or cadian would give you but you'd be able to hit harder in overwatch then you would normally.

Should make russ's very scary things to charge, to things that don't deny overwatch at least. That relic is pretty solid as well, definitely worth the CP to stick that on a tank commander.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

Wyverns that shoot twice, ignore cover and get ap-1 on 6's, sweet jesus, that's ignoring regimental bonuses and other strats and relics that can affect that as well. That's filthy, the amount of GEQ's they'll be able to murder will be hideous.

Bs3+ plasma and melta got price drops as well, down to 11 and 14 respectively.

AP4 Basilisk's though...

This formation will be very, very nasty against chaos once you start including the relic of lost cadia and vengeance for cadia. Even just the aerial spotters strat.

The tempestus formation doesn't seem that great to me, the trait is solid but deepstriking your warlord like that is a risky business, the relic seems too sitiational to see much use and while the strat is pretty interesting, I'm not sure how usable it is. Valk's can be a big point sink as opposed to deepstriking and you'll only be able to use that start on one unit.


Edit:nevermind, valk's dropped 40 points, they are now significantly less of a point sink. Shadowswords got more expensive by 6 points as well, in case someone is running a tight list with them.

 Trickstick wrote:
After seeing the text of the formations in some of the youtube reviews, a couple of things jumped out at me:

- Emperor's conclave is not for me. It's a melee focused formation with lots of fight and charge phase stuff.

- The tank stratagem lets you double shot a tank turret no matter how far you moved. Seems like a really good thing to combine with tallarn ambush, as that was a weakness of outflanking russes.

- Second tank stratagem let's you pick a unit and get d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ for every keyword russ that charges it. I'm thinking my demolisher squad may be having some fun.

- The mechanised formation seems like a great idea if you mech. One stratagem lets you get out after moving, although you can't then move. Trait lets you give orders out of chimera, as if you have a vox. I can see vox armed mech being quite useful.

which review showed the text for the mech formation? with the price drop to chimera's i'm interested in running one and anything to make them better interest me.

 Trickstick wrote:

 gbghg wrote:
which review showed the text for the mech formation? with the price drop to chimera's i'm interested in running one and anything to make them better interest me.

https://youtu.be/sT0eDbjQTyc?t=1653

The stratagem to get out looks nice, as getting out after moving is a rare ability.

That whole formation looks tasty, vets squads being part of it is all I could have hoped for. Trait is solid, relic is eh, 3++ is good but it'll be on a company commander who will be hiding in a chimera anyway. Both strats seem pretty solid, disembarking after moving will be nasty with a vet squad filled with plasma or melta and the fire support strat will be a nasty surprise for anyone who tries to charge them, especially if you take a heavy flamer in the squad and stick them in a double heavy flamer chimera.

 Trickstick wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gbghg wrote:
...heavy flamer in the squad and stick them in a double heavy flamer chimera.

I don't think a flamer chimera would really work, as the 8" range would be easy to avoid. Assuming you deploy the infantry forward it'll be easy to charge from outside the range.

Yeah, range is the biggest issue with that idea, that said having your guardsmen hug the chimera makes it less of an issue and it forces your opponent to make longer more risky charges. Won't be a major impedient to units with rules/strats etc to make charging more reliable but it will discourage from units who lack those.

I'm thinking run a armageddon vet squad loaded with plasma and a platoon commander with mechanised commander in a chimera (weapon loadout is debatable), get within 18" of the unit you wish to tenderise, spend a CP on rapid deploy, pop a CP on the armageddon strat for reroll ones, order bring it down on the vets. Use take cover on the vets if they get shot at and fire support if they get charged to help them survive. If they live have them unload another round of shooting then hop back in the chimera with the armageddon order then go find something else to kill.

Point wise thats a lot better now, will only cost 159pts, but it's a pretty CP heavy playstyle. 2CP to get the formation and trait then a minimum 2CP a turn to a max of 4, probably not worth the return on 3 plasma guns.

I'm thinking of sticking with autocannon's on my sentinel's, 40 points for an autocannon platform that is T6 with a 3+ save is very appealing. Tallarn would make them very good harrassers, cadian would give a small damage output and armageddon would force a greater quantity of small arms or dedicated AT fire to remove them.

I'm still of the opinion that autocannon's hit that sweet spot of being able to actually do damage to anything you might face while not painting giant targets on the sentinels like plasma cannon's, missile launchers or lascannons.

sentinel chainswords are 2pts with S5 ap-1, sentinels only get 1 attack (at WS4+) but it'd give you some capability to hit back in melee if your sentinels got taken hostage.

Can't remmeber if it's been noted already but having flicked through my copy of vigilus, unyielding advance will give tallarn russes a crazy amount of mobility without losing any shots. 18" of movement with unyielding advance and get around behind them. That kind of mobility opens up options in clutch situations, like moving a tallarn tank commander 18" up to an important enemy unit, dumping all it's firepower into it, then charging it with crush them! and steel phalanx for good measure.

Ecdain wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I wonder if this makes wyverns playable with this artillery detachment. 1 Wyvern can choose not to shoot and for 1 cp stop any enemy infantry unit from shooting the next turn. could be pretty strong in some battles plus the relic to give all your wyverns ignore cover if they shoot the same target. That is a decent damage boost.

I haven't read the book yet, is there really a strategem that says "opt out of shooting, those dark reapers can't shoot next turn?"

Xeno's remembering incorrectly I think. Stratagem stops the unit from firing overwatch and halves it move characteristic. It's a fairly situational stratagem but it has it's uses I think, being able to have the movement characteristic of fast melee threats like genestealers or stop a unit overwatching in order to get a melee unit into combat intact will come in handy.

That said I'm not sure if it would be worth the opportunity cost of losing the extra shooting and hence damage you could just outright inflict on that unit instead.

A thought occurs, does it state anywhere at all that you can't stack the movement halving effect? Because if you combined that strat with a banehammer's tremor cannon you could cut a unit to 1/4 of it's move characteristic and stop it advancing for good measure. Which will absolutely cripple the mobility of just about every unit in the game.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 gbghg wrote:
A thought occurs, does it state anywhere at all that you can't stack the movement halving effect? Because if you combined that strat with a banehammer's tremor cannon you could cut a unit to 1/4 of it's move characteristic and stop it advancing for good measure. Which will absolutely cripple the mobility of just about every unit in the game.

I'm not sure! Good question.

Worth noting that the EWAC strat only works on "Infantry" units though, so not really that helpful against Knights or Monsters or whatever. Tremor Cannon still works though!

ah, thats true. There goes my dreams of reducing supersonic flyer's to 20" or less movement with a superheavy tank and an artillery piece. Still, Infantry is a vast keyword and there's a fair few units you might want to reduce the movement on for whatever reason.