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Hey folks,
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, I tried catching up on the thread but I have a job and need sleep!
I've thought of a couple of wacky, potentially useful tactics, I'd be curious to see what others think of them.

Ogryn taxi: take 1 ogryn bodyguard with slabshield, maul and death mask. Place in a centaur. Use the centaur's small size to hug los-blocking terrain while working up to your opponent's deployment zone, then romp about his backfield assaulting weak objective-holding units. 116 points by my count for a unit that can absorb a silly amount of firepower and potentially derail your opponent's plans - if you get lucky there's linebreaker as well.

Suicidal infernus: take a valhallan malcador infernus with twin heavy flamer sponsons. Charge right into the heart of the enemy, flame everything in sight (avoid chemical ammo as you won't be a threat to vehicles) and hug your opponent's most valuable units. Charge them, even. Seek a glorious death, and use a command point re-roll when it finally is destroyed to ensure it explodes.
Valhallan keeps it moving so that your opponent can't run away, and the weapons are a formidable annoyance. 18w means it will soak up a LOT of firepower, and the threat of the explosion may force your opponent to avoid it, withdraw from combat (wasting a turn), or just take d6 mortal wounds on the chin on every nearby unit.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on these ideas - haven't playtested yet but should be able to report back in a few weeks.

@charger you're right, it might get stuck in combat, but the question is whether the thing that it can't kill is worth more points than it is. If so I'd consider the points well spent. If you play against a lot of superheavies it's probably not worth it but short of Lords of war anything that can tie it up or kill it will not be usefully pummelling your line (I hope).
And unit was right on the money - 4+ with a re-roll seems like a fair chance.

Razerous wrote:
What about x number of hellhounds, doing much... ah they don't have the steel behemoth rule.

Got it

Neither does the malcador - tbh you could probably do it with either, but the explosion is smaller on the hellhounds and will backfire less with just 1 malcador. I also like the d2 on its flamer, and psychologically I imagine it's more annoying to have 1 malcador up in your grill than 3 hellhounds. Could be wrong though, and if one just wants to flame as many things as possible, the hellhounds are probably better.


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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
.

My Sororitas use Infernuses, and since they're in a Sororitas detachment they get no trait, but I was thinking Catachan myself to get that sweet sweet shots re-roll on the main armament and the HF sponsons.

Also, I do use it as a suicide bomber sometimes

I like the catachan re-roll of course, but I feel like keeping it moving (since it already auto-hits) seems more utilitarian. I hate the idea of losing a target through only being able to move 4...

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Just getting into guard in 8th ed, and I wanted to double check on some clarification for the Catachan regiment, because it seems really, really awesome.

So re-rolling on flamers is pretty obvious, but then when I bring FW into it, I would get to re-roll the number of shots on a Earthshaker Carriage, or heavy quad launcher, as they both have the Vehicle and Regiment keywords.

An army filled with flamer scout sentinels, hellhounds and some artillery seems like a really good time.

Yeah, but even better is the wyvern (4d6 attacks, reroll to wound, 93pts)

The Leman Russ Battle Cannon (D6 attacks, AP-2)

I'm not certain flamer scount sentials are worth it since they can't use them in melee, but the hellhound is defintly good with the 2d6 attacks and 16" range

Great to know they work as written! I was sure there was going to be some hidden line I missed or something. Have any suggestions for loadouts on sentinels? I have 10 of them... I like sentinels.

It's worth remembering that it only works on 1 dice per weapon, so catachan has the biggest statistical impact on 1d6 weapons such as the battle cannon. It also works great on earthshakers and you should always re-roll the lowest. Wyvern feel being catachan the least.

tneva82 wrote:


First game scenario is this nutter, no idea about future ones. As said 30 PL game with 15 more per game. First 2 with 1 patrol(second is REALLY tight to fit! 45 PL to one patrol...), then you get battalion and then even brigade though only 1 detachment max.

Whoever organised this mess has clearly never read the astra militarum codex (or doesn't care) - just checked and you can have a guard BRIGADE for 45 PL!

My suggestion would have been to spend a little cash only on plasma or melta dudes and run tallarn infantry with special weapons only. Mix of flamers and plasma or melta. Enough mobility to take objectives and fall back for volley fire and gbitf!, and flexible with no one unit being vital for target saturation. But it looks like the organiser is a nid player and doesn't want anyone stopping their Genestealers from cleaning up... /cynicism

So I didn't sleep very well last night and in a stupor it came to me - these are all fluffy changes!
I mean, a conscript might be worse in every way than a guardsman, but to the departmento munitorum, that's still a lasgun, flak armour, and frag grenades to supply, and the meat filling to maintain and ship around. Plus lots of generals treat all troops as cannon fodder whatever their training was.

It all makes sense* now!





*when sleep deprived

tneva82 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Dude I hate to be that guy but why are you doing this to yourself? Whoever has made this league has such a bone to pick with shooting armies that it sounds like they've done everything but say "Shooting isn't allowed". I would talk to this guy and tell him these missions are insane, if he has any idea of what balance is there's no way he can look at these scenarios and call them fair.

Forget IG for a moment, what would Tau do in this kind of scenario? They don't even get token melee units like guard does with Ogryn. I'm pretty sure it's actually impossible for them to win in this kind of scenario.

Well don't have other game available on the days and maybe it gets better. Funny thing is organizer is running shooty army himself and yesterday had to fend off ork horde.

It might be worth checking to see if later scenarios will favour shooty more? Otherwise, at least you're playing and making friends.

I'd suggest this might even be a good scenario for mech - with twin flamer chimeras you can at least do good overwatch, then disembark and shoot with the contents next turn. It would also lower your drops considerably.

 exliontamer wrote:
I am possibly going to participate in a League that is starting Week 1 at 500 pts and running the ITC Simplified Scenario 1. I am looking for some help because I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get the most out of my 500 pts. The later points values are no problem for me. But since I run a lot of artillery and such, and that stuff is way too expensive to include at such a low point value, I am at a loss. I don't have piles of infantry either. But I do have a fair number of heavy weapons crews (mostly lascannon and autocannon).

Any suggestions? For reference I will likely be facing Marines (Imperial or Chaos) or Nids, since that is what is heavily played at my store. Thanks.

I've just started an escalation league with a chum and went cheesy for my first game - although it was pre-faq so you'd probably have to tweak it.
Catachan patrol
HQ: tank commander, executioner, plasma sponsons, lascannons
Elites: Commissar, ministorum priest
Fast attack: 7 rough riders with 2 meltaguns
Troops: fill up on conscripts

I think I lost 3 rough riders and 4 conscripts in exchange for tabling my opponent.

Not recommended but it's an option!

I guess the other advantages with infantry over mortars is objective secured and coverage since those wounds are able to spread over a greater distance if needed.

Stormlord full of mortars, heavy bolter sponsons maxed, with a trojan?


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(probably best to add an atlas and techpriest, and go valhallan)

What's wrong with reserving and rolling on turn 1? Is that not a thing in 8th any more?

 exliontamer wrote:
Vroom vroom, pew pew.

The holiest words in the Guard lexicon

So I've been watching every IG batrep on YouTube since the codex dropped, and the pattern I'm seeing with high-end players (especially with nids but also other armies) is that they apply a lot of pressure and "tag" tanks and other units in melee so they have to withdraw and not shoot, also getting locked in combat to avoid shooting.

Now in our codex, we have a ready-made solution to that - valhallans!
The valhallan order lets you shoot into combat, and with flamers your can't hit your own models. Anyone thought about bringing a valhallan vanguard of sws' with flamers to take advantage and nullify that tactic?

gendoikari87 wrote:
Problem is I want to use the actual catachan (and Escher) models

So they're masters of stealth, therefore always have a cover save. 5+ becomes a 4+ everywhere :-D


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AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Gotta love those Carapace armoured hellgun wielding light infantry for sure.

Totally do-able in only war!

 exliontamer wrote:

 Captain Roderick wrote:
So I've been watching every IG batrep on YouTube since the codex dropped, and the pattern I'm seeing with high-end players (especially with nids but also other armies) is that they apply a lot of pressure and "tag" tanks and other units in melee so they have to withdraw and not shoot, also getting locked in combat to avoid shooting.

Now in our codex, we have a ready-made solution to that - valhallans!
The valhallan order lets you shoot into combat, and with flamers your can't hit your own models. Anyone thought about bringing a valhallan vanguard of sws' with flamers to take advantage and nullify that tactic?

Nice thought! I actually don't even care about killing an occasional infantryman on a 1...I used to be Renegades until it became pointless to play them. Too bad it only works on infantry...I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to shoot artillery into my own guys again... I'm sick, I know.

A couple of spearheads full of mortars not good enough for you?

 RegulusBlack wrote:
use "Catachan" themed Scions, the pop out worrks the same as Deep Strike, i was thinking the same thing but with Tanith FAO

Actually elysians would really work for tanith - they often use spotters with their Snipers, have a thing for missile launchers and demo charges, never use lascannon, and are sometimes ordered to fight to the death without fleeing. They even used buggies once!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Are many people running elysians competitively these days? They seem to be the perfect mobility unit for my foot guard - they add to the body count and bring the plasma to right where it's needed, and help with the armies that have a -1 to hit outside 12".

I'm thinking of using a few lasgun-armed infantry squads to drop in turn 1 and clear out enemy chaff, and potentially charge to tie up tanks/ranged units. Then a mass plasma-SWS squad drop turn 2 to decimate the exposed core of the enemy.

I've just started playing around in battlescribe with the idea,thanks for the inspiration


It's got me wondering though, how do competitive types feel about a soup list? Valhallan screens, catachan russes, etc. It's not very fluffy but I was wondering if anyone was veering that way for competition's sake?

Alpharius Walks wrote:
Just some bodies to throw in the Chimera with the characters (to minimize drops) in case my opponent has something that can kill it, better to lose a guy with a sniper rifle than a 30-46 point character. Depending on the situation they can either ride around and man the lasguns, get out and take an objective or deploy outside of it and throw out some harassing shots.

Mother of God! 9 russes is truly heroic damage. Not 100% on the mathammer but I'm pretty sure you'll kill a baneblade a turn with that...

Could you drop the sws and give all the chimeras twin heavy flamers? That would give you stronger overwatch and probably more damage overall in such a short ranged game.

tneva82 wrote:


What in return of SWS's? Note it's power level so don't need to drop anything for points to fit flamers into chimera. Bigger issue is models. I have only one with that(the one I painted on weekend) and apat from me being strict WYSIWYG apart from grenades & pistols/cc weapons in profile the league enforces same WYSIWYG limit as well. Thus unless I find parts, speed paint them and hack existing weapons off nope can't do and not sure I want 3 twin-h.flamer chimera permanently! Maybe one day get couple more and magnetize them.

Very good point! I'm not used to the whole power level thing so didn't think of that.

You're probably as best at as your can be then - best weigh carefully if you want to use defensive gunners or not depending on the potential harm you can do.

I think your should have a slightly better time this game, dice willing of course!

tneva82 wrote:


Yeah PL changes things a bit but at least I like them. Makes building army quick&easy which suits us seeing we aren't min-maxing to hell, use fairly strict WYSIWYG(standard pistols and grenades we are more lax) and models have been built over the years for what looks nice so no abuse thus didn't mind league using it.

Hopefully game is bit better than last where scenario rules really hindered. The deployment zones are pretty annoying here too but with the army fitting into small area I'm hopefully able to avoid first turn charges maybe. If not then damn again. Would basically reduce game to standing still and firing and seeing if I have enough firepower.

These rules are also really screwing up regiment balance. Can't figure reason to take anything but cadian(since you often end up just sitting still with no reason to move anyway) or catachan for template dice reroll. Tallarn? You don't have room to manouver. Any of the range boosters suffer from you not being in trouble of getting stuff to rapid fire range anyway let alone within 24"!

And since models are def not catachan looking pretty much settled by that.

1. Might it not also cause everyone taking every possible upgrade?
2. The tournament setup is pretty nuts. I'd be taking a couple of battalions at your level and you're stuck with a patrol! Makes it hard to be guard.
3. Remember your can always use the doctrines whatever your appearance, it's the warlord traits and relics you can't use if you're not "official" <regiment> (I think). Catachan would probably do pretty well, especially if you got heavy flamers on vehicles but yeah magnetise if you can

It's a shame that you can't use centaur carriers, they might come in real handy on that mission to scoot onto a remote objective. Or at least I'm assuming you can't get hold of a forgeworld vehicle and paint it in time, or a 1/35 bren carrier model.

What's your detachment limits?

tneva82 wrote:

 Captain Roderick wrote:
It's a shame that you can't use centaur carriers, they might come in real handy on that mission to scoot onto a remote objective. Or at least I'm assuming you can't get hold of a forgeworld vehicle and paint it in time, or a 1/35 bren carrier model.

What's your detachment limits?

Yeah no money and no interest buying more 40k models now. Future purchaces are 30k blood angels.

Detachment is one battallion. That's it.

Sounds like you're on track then, I look forward to hearing your next battle report.
Can you use valkyrie instead of vendetta? It's less scary and can carry a full squad for objective grabbing.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay so stupid crazy idea. Chimeras filled with platoon commanders with power fists and two command squads. Cc guard style


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Not say it’s a good idea, not even saying it’s not the dumbest thing ever in the history of man. But it’d be hilarious

If you think that's hilarious, why not try a gorgonful?

1980 points for supreme command with 1 gorgon and 3 company commanders with power fists, then 8 vanguard detachments each with 1 company commander and 4 Platoon commanders with power fists, and 1 stock priest.

NOTHING WILL STAND BEFORE YOU except fliers.

gendoikari87 wrote:

CaptainO wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Okay so stupid crazy idea. Chimeras filled with platoon commanders with power fists and two command squads. Cc guard style


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Not say it’s a good idea, not even saying it’s not the dumbest thing ever in the history of man. But it’d be hilarious

Run the Platoon commanders as Catachans with powerfist and plasma pistol and they would be S8 Ld 8 BS 3+ WS 3+ 5++ close combat legends. All for 33 points each.... Is this sounding like a good idea to anyone else.... Hell run 3 of them with a bog standard Lord commissar for Ld 9 and a full Vanguard detachment. All for 154 points...

cream on top? Put them in a Valkyrie with a command squad for ablative wounds jump out and assault the enemy warlord turn 1 or 2 depending on how sure you want to be to get the charge

A bit more expensive but you could put in crusaders for the ablative wounds instead as they can resurrect. Also excellent for eating overwatch!

WatcherZero wrote:
Latest regimental standard, is this a tacit admittal that they over nerfed commisars?

Attention, Guardsman!
It has come to the attention of Imperial High Command that morale in your sector is dangerously low this Candlemass season, possibly due to the mysterious accidental deaths of all your Regimental Commissars. Our Tech-Adepts are hard at work fixing the “sudden involuntary discharge” issue many claim to have with your lasguns, while for the issue of your morale we have recruited His Revered Holiness Rudolph Crispin, a renowned preacher of the Adeptus Ministorum, to share a special festive story with you all

It could be - they're pretty savvy these days. At the same time, it's not uncommon for the regimental standard to open with an "inconvenience" as the reason for the article, and fragged commissars leading to a priest telling a festive story is pretty logical, and could fit anytime in any edition.
We'll never know!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Anyone been running an ogryn bodyguard with the death mask relic for a 2++ invuln? Seems like he could be a good anvil unit in my foot horde to advance with the main infantry wave and tie up tanks / enemy threats. Even dedicated CC units will often struggle against his high toughness and 2++. Mortal wounds are all he needs to fear

I'm planning on it when my slow-moving escalation campaign has enough points to spare for him in a centaur. Lob him up table to tie things up...

 Fenris-77 wrote:
They don't have the <regiment> keyword, can they ambush?

Ooh good point - does that mean they can't ride in AM transports either?

I've seen them used to good effect in video batreps, 1 unit of 3-5 alongside a medium or large unit of bullgryn. They're not amazing at killing things but they are amazing at tying enemy cc units up with their invulnerable save and 2+ to recover a casualty every turn. It's best to only have one unit, not too large, so that you're getting the biggest impact from your acts of faith for the points you spend. They won't win you the battle but they're an excellent speed bump!

Check out Guerilla miniature games on YouTube (posted here by achilles) for a couple of examples.

Ah - I've not seen them fighting twice much, mainly regenerating to keep the speedbump in place after moving twice to get to cc.
I suppose if a big enough squad survives the 1-2 rounds it takes to get to fighting twice you might consider that instead, but with str/t 3 you're going to be taking a lot of saves, and against meq your 2 attacks per model won't actually get you that far (it seems).
Fancy reporting back when you've tested them?

Not the most competitive but should be fun. Note however that conscripts are minimum squad size 20. Valhallan will help with losses a bit but you might want to upgrade one of your tanks to a Commissar tank to keep them around a bit longer. That'll cost you 2cp.