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Sorry if this is a repeat thread, but I can't find the answer anywhere on Warhammer-community or when I looked through the forums.

When it lists Ballistic Skill and Weapon Skill it lists as 3+. They have things like what was previously snap fire listed as -1. They said this is modified off a base die number.

The issue is I can't find what that base die number is.

Beyond that do armour saves basically still work the same?

Thanks in advance.

The modifier applies to whatever you roll on the dice (That is the "base die number")
So if you roll a 3 you'd count it as a 2 if you had a -1 modifier.

So with a -1 to hit a Bs 3+ model would need to roll a 4+ to hit

It's just counter intuitive because of the double negative.

+3 hit chance, with a -1 hit modifier is read as: +3 - (-1) = +4, making your hit chance worse.

I think it is because we are used to applying modifiers to a stat not to a die roll. currently if something is -1 to BS it would be BS4 - 1 = BS3 then check table for new to hit value.

In new 40k instead you apply the modifier to the diceroll.

So a -1 to hit roll would work as you roll the dice and then subtract 1 from it.

Ex. You shoot and roll a 3 on the dice. 3-1 means your roll is now a 2. So if you hit on a 3+ you have now missed.

Essentially it amounts to the same thing as adding 1 to the value needed to hit the target, and that is probably the easier way to think of it.

Yeah that's equivalent too. Personally I find it easier to compute success and say "hitting on 4s!" rather than "hitting on 3s but subtracting 1 from the result of my rolls!"

While what has been said here is true there is something that is being left out, and I only bring this up because dice modifiers are a huge thing AoS.

If you have an effect that triggers on a 6, like a mortal wound (this is a common effect in AoS), and you have a -1 to hit/wound you can never roll a 6 to activate the trigger because you actually rolled a 5.

Simply put its your dice roll (3) +/- dice modifiers (1) = final roll (4 or 2 respectively)

that is actually a very interesting difference. That would also mean if you have a +1 modifier and re-roll 1s you would never get that re-roll.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
though there might be some difference to that though, because if it works that way terminators in cover can never fail an unmodified save.

Breng77 wrote:
that is actually a very interesting difference. That would also mean if you have a +1 modifier and re-roll 1s you would never get that re-roll.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
though there might be some difference to that though, because if it works that way terminators in cover can never fail an unmodified save.

If they go by the same modifier rules in AoS then they are applied after all rolls. Meaning you can still re-roll your 1s and then the modifier is applied to the second roll. Also you would not get to re-roll 2s by the same logic

If it's off the dice then it could result in some odd results;

1d6 (-1 Night fighting) (-2 hard cover) (-2 refactor fields) doesn't always hit on a die roll of a 6. If your ballistic skill is a 3+

That assumes bonuses and penalties are cumulative. And there isn't a rule that says 6 always hits and 1 almost misses.

Youn wrote:
If it's off the dice then it could result in some odd results;

1d6 (-1 Night fighting) (-2 hard cover) (-2 refactor fields) doesn't always hit on a die roll of a 6. If your ballistic skill is a 3+

That assumes bonuses and penalties are cumulative. And there isn't a rule that says 6 always hits and 1 almost misses.

Well cover adds to the Save roll and we don't know by how much yet. Night Fighting might not be a thing either. Not being able to hit could be a possibility but would probably require a decent amount of resources on a single unit

Breng77 wrote:
I think it is because we are used to applying modifiers to a stat not to a die roll. currently if something is -1 to BS it would be BS4 - 1 = BS3 then check table for new to hit value.

In new 40k instead you apply the modifier to the diceroll.

So a -1 to hit roll would work as you roll the dice and then subtract 1 from it.

Ex. You shoot and roll a 3 on the dice. 3-1 means your roll is now a 2. So if you hit on a 3+ you have now missed.

Essentially it amounts to the same thing as adding 1 to the value needed to hit the target, and that is probably the easier way to think of it.

modifiers in 40k and Warhammer have always applied to the die roll, not the target number (except in 7th edition 40k where some effects would modify a model's BS). It got a bit subtle at times. For example, the BS chart used to run from BS 1->6 to hit, down to BS 5->2+ to hit, and then kept on going; BS7->1+, BS8->0+, BS9->(-1)+ and BS10->(-2)+ Most of the time the "rule of 1" meant that BS >5 wasn't particularly relevant, but in 1st and 2nd edition it meant that high-BS models could soak up a lot of negative to hit mods before it affected their accuracy.

For example, a Vindicare Assassin with BS8. Ignoring for the moment any modifiers from weapons, hits his target if I roll anything but a "natural" 1 on a D6. So, what do I need to hit if the target is in hard cover (-2 to hit)? A 4? (4-2 = 2) No. Anything but a 1, still. (A die roll of 2, then apply the -2 modifier so my final score is 0. What do I need to hit? 0 or more!)

In 8th edition, that's not going to be quite the same, as I doubt any model will have a BS of 1+ (even if the rule of 1 still applies), but I think it does apply in Shadow War: Armageddon.