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I am looking for advice on a better detail airbrush for things like plasma guns and custom logos to free hand etc. think replicating a 0000 (4/0) brush or even smaller

I have several in my stable

Badger patriot, Iwata eclipse HP-CS, some harbor freight and master cheapos.

I am looking at some with ~.2mm needles as it appears that is what I should be looking for in this category

currently I am looking at

badger krome - i have used one but only with the .33 needle it was close but i could not match a 4/0 brush with it on thinness, would get the kit with .33mm and .21 mm needles

Grex genesis XN - see it praised btu nto a ton of info out there

Harder & Steenbeck Ultra kit w/ .4mm and .2mm needle - have used some H&S but never this one. will also accept a .15mm needle

any other recommendations are welcome, trying to keep it in the sub 150 range as it is just a hobby brush and I can do paintbrushes still just wanting to try something new

as far as i can tell oen concern being maintenance the grex would probably be hard to get parts for, badger cheap parts are everywhere, H&S parts available but... pricy

have looked at reviews on them but not a ton of them are out for miniature painting usually they are detail brushes for like motorcycle tanks , nail airbrushing etc that is not exactly the same as mini painting

any input is appreciated

The harder & steenbeck one. Build quality is astonishingly good, and being able to change the needle/nozzle quickly and easily is a fantastic thing. Just remember you can't take the nozzle cap off to wipe it down, so thinning and managing tip dry is important.

Fine work means very low pressure, close distance, minimal paintflow, very thin paint - to the point that inks may work better for you. The cheapo ones (AB-130 type) are normally a .3 nozzle. You can practice getting down to very fine lines with these - I can reliably do lines of about 2mm width with mine and almost hair-fine with the .2 H&S. 'Course *aiming* it is a bit harder, but I can get the spray width down...

I have the Harder & Steenbeck Infinity (2 in 1) that I use with .15mm needle. It can do very small areas/details... the issue with H&S stuff is the nozzles are exceptionally fragile, I tear them so often it's like they are made of tin-foil.

 Gunzhard wrote:
I have the Harder & Steenbeck Infinity (2 in 1) that I use with .15mm needle. It can do very small areas/details... the issue with H&S stuff is the nozzles are exceptionally fragile, I tear them so often it's like they are made of tin-foil.

that is concerning considering they are $25 for a nozzle

how many have you replaced and how often? like every 20 hours? 100? 1000?

I couldn't tell you how many I've replaced... or per hour usage. Typically I will still keep using it (broken) for less detailed work or switch to a different airbrush until I finally replace the nozzle.

My cheapo masters for example is ultra durable in comparison and even my Iwatas are not nearly as fragile. Never tried a Badger or Paasche.

The H&S nozzle (for the .15mm) is so tiny, so it will generally clog easier but mostly importantly it's tougher to clean. Like as an example, the MACK tip-cleaners (basically just tiny steel rods), even the smallest rod won't fit through this nozzle so it's easy to push 'too far' and the material is very soft.

how about the .2mm that it comes with? more durable or about the same?

It's the same soft material. But you can poke a cleaner through it slightly easier if you know what I mean.

Have you tried the Badger Sotar 20/20?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Have you tried the Badger Sotar 20/20?

I have not, though I was looking in the around $100-maybe $150 range and 20/20 is $180 so the wife might hurt me... though looking it up and seeing the action it appears to basically be a shorter lighter krome

The biggest thing for painting fine detail isn't the nozzle size but rather the length of the taper and the aircap geometry.

Unfortunately a long taper also means paint will build up faster. I had one needle with a super long taper that theoretically could spray very fine but practically I couldn't use it on miniatures with acrylic paints (paper, sure, tshirts, probably), I actually went backwards to a 0.3mm with still a decently long taper but not crazily so.

I'll be interested to hear if you do manage to get down to being able to spray the equivalent of 4/0 on an actual miniature. I found the finest line I could spray consistently was about 2.5mm wide, maybe down to about 1.5mm wide but by that point I couldn't be consistent because of the shear speed required to maintain a line that fine without pooling was faster than I could control the brush in the context of painting a model.

I've never really even seen people attempt airbrushing that fine on a model (on paper or a tshirt, sure, because they're less prone to pooling).

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Have you tried the Badger Sotar 20/20?

I have not, though I was looking in the around $100-maybe $150 range and 20/20 is $180 so the wife might hurt me... though looking it up and seeing the action it appears to basically be a shorter lighter krome

I have the 20/20 as my detail airbrush and I love it. I've done some nice camo work on 15mm armor, and used it to do some spot coloring on 28mm models. It does clog and requires a thorough cleaning, and has a small cup, but the action is great and it feels substantial. I have a master as my main brush, and I think the 20/20 is far superior.

I got the 20/20 from Amazon for something in the area of $60 awhile back.

G00fySmiley wrote:I have not, though I was looking in the around $100-maybe $150 range and 20/20 is $180 so the wife might hurt me... though looking it up and seeing the action it appears to basically be a shorter lighter krome

If you wait, it will go on from Amazon because it always does.

Cruentus wrote:I got the 20/20 from Amazon for something in the area of $60 awhile back.

Yep, I bought one for $70 a couple of years ago.

I did see that the 20/20 was cheap that long ago a lot of forums mentioned it but I lack patience for that, if it goes on sale like that though I will probably pick up one though eeven if i like this one as variety is always nice.

I have a sotar and hate it. I've also never had a nozzle tear on me from h&s, and I'm rough as buggery

kb_lock wrote:
I have a sotar and hate it. I've also never had a nozzle tear on me from h&s, and I'm rough as buggery

Which H&S do you have out of curiosity... in my group 3 of us all got the Infinity 2-in-1 at the same time, and we've all noticed just how soft the nozzles are (as compared to other ab), and we've all replaced many.

Infinity cr-plus 2in1

I Wasn't doubting you, maybe the crplus uses better nozzles?

pulled the trigger on the ultra 2 in 1, will probably pick up the .15 needle kit after a while. thanks for the help, any other input people have feel free to add as it may help other people shopping for airbrushes in the future

Hi all,

Got some user experience that might help,

Started with Badger Patriot 105 fine .5mm nozzle, but rather quickly changed to Badger Renegade Velocity .21mm. For miniatures it's now 97% Renegade Velocity and Patriot for priming/basecolors only.
Most of my work is 15mm Flames of War and 28mm GW/Warlord stuff. Patriot is still very useful for bigger work like 28mm vehicles, 1/35 tanks etc.

I've improved my painting with smaller nozzle size, but other parts of the equation matters too. Here's my checklist:

- Test what's the best paint for you and your airbrush. Currently using Vallejo Game Air/Model Air and Ammo of Mig. There's differences with acrylic resins manufacturers use - Vallejo for example uses more elastic resin, and I've managed clog the small nozzle for good with properly thinned Vallejo Model Colors few times.

- use the best individual thinning agent for every paint manufacturer/paint line you're using - again, do some field testing before shooting paint towards your models. New formula Vallejo airbrush thinner (clear) have worked great for me, it seems to have small amount of retarding properties and prevents tip dry very well. Good retarder don't hurt either - try AK interactive retarder, it's fantastic .

- Manage the pressure depending what you're painting - lower the pressure for finer details.

I still have to rely on brush for the most detailed work, e.g. chipping effects etc. My latest work can be found here:
https://www.instagram.com/therealjosku/

Hope this helps someone!

-Johannes