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Depiction of skill in 8th ed statline.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

One of the things that annoyed me immensely in AoS is the change from the Str table to wounding on a set number because I felt like it didn't depict toughness in a good way. I'm glad 40k didn't go this route, only adopting the set number to hit, but I'm still sceptical of how well this system can display skill within such a small set of numbers. Using AoS as a guideline, I would make this kind of assumption.

6+ to hit: Worthless, Grotling War Machine crew in combat kinda worthless
5+ to hit: A medocre unit engaged in the wrong sort of fight, Tau in combat, Orks in shooting
4+ to hit: A medocre unit engaged in the right sort of fight, guardsmen shooting, Orks in combat
3+ to hit: An ''elite'' unit engaged in the right sort of fight, Incubi in combat, Tacticals in shooting,
2+ to hit: A skilled commander engaged in his specialisation.

Imho this system gives us a better depiction of skill at the lower end of the spectrum, perhaps Termagaunts and Gargoyles in combat should also hit on 5's to make the 4+ Hormagants and Warriors feel more specialised? But a much worse one at the upper end. If an Exarch, an Autarch and a Phoenix Lord all hit on 2's how can we depict which is more skilful unless they each have unique special rules to represent it? Perhaps the 2+ to hit will be considerably rarer than the current 2+ to hit with BS, perhaps 2+ to hit will be reserved for Eldar characters, fast tyranids, big Daemons, Assassins and special characters while most ''normal'' captains and chaper masters hit on 3's?

What do you think is the best way 8th should depict skill, with a buttload of unique special rules to remember, by being skimpy with the better to hit stats (unlikely when the basic Tac marine hits in combat on a 3+) or something else? And How can we possibly depict a battle between two equally highly skilled people? I hit on a 2+, and you hit on a 2+, you both hit all the time and it feels like there is hardly any interaction between each others models. Combat feels less visceral imho and just a little bit silly. How can we possibly depict Lelith Hesperax hitting an outclassed Autarch on 2's when the Autarch gets to swing back and hit on 2's equally? That doesn't seem right.

 
   
Made in us
Snord




Midwest USA

I had this thought the other day, except for Age of Sigmar. My thinking in that is:

6+ is for peasant and citizens with no combat experience, or fresh conscripts

5+ is for poorly trained soldiers, or those that have a basic idea how to use their weapons

4+ are competent soldiers that have experience

3+ are elite troops that know exactly what they are doing

2+ are EXTREMELY good at their job and can handle anything thrown at them

I personally think that we will see increases to model's defenses rather than their offensive output. I always got the feeling that in 5th through 7th Edition, a model's killy-ness is what they were seeking to represent over their defensive-ness in most cases.

In your example of Lelith versus an Autarch, I would imagine that Lelith will have some ridiculous sort of save against enemy attacks to represent her abilities in combat, probably in the form of some kind of "saving throw" against all wounds caused in melee or similar. An Autarch would probably have a better armor save and additional wounds over Lelith for their tougher armor. Lelith might also get re-rolls To Hit or better AP in a challenge or against heroes, or even have a ridiculously high number of attacks with her weapons. She may even have an ability that puts the enemy at -2 To Hit against her in melee.

I could also see a Space Marine Chapter Master hitting something on 2+, but they would not be near as fast in one-on-one combat, but they have the durability behind their armor and wounds to keep them up long enough to fight back. A Chapter Master with Thunder Hammer might only need one or two good hits to crush Lelith, and maybe 3 or 4 to crush an Autarch. To "balance" that out, it might take Lelith 10 hits to bring down a Chapter Master, and a Autarch may need 6 or 7. And it's possible that those are their Attack profile as well.

It's definitely something to think about, and is a good thought exercise. We will know for certain once the rules get relesed though!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 16:00:44


 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick





I think some well-placed re-rolls can add a bit of extra granularity to it. For example, 6+ re-rollable is just barely worse than 5+. In general though, it is basically a fundamental limitation of a d6 system that unless you start throwing lots of d6s around for everything, it's pretty low-resolution.
   
 
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