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I have a Blood Ravens army and wonder if it fits fluff to use these
Even more so as the librarians are going to be shorter

we dunno but it's a safe bet they'll all fit. I doubt very much that GW will specificly say any cannon chapters have refused Primaris Marines

For sure. They're gonna want to sell as many of those suckers as possible.

If any chapter is wary or outright refuses the use of primaris marines, it'll probably be one descended from the Raven Guard

 King Pariah wrote:
If any chapter is wary or outright refuses the use of primaris marines, it'll probably be one descended from the Raven Guard

any chapters outright refusing them will proably be "the emperor's dudes" Phil's home grown chapter. the bit about refusing to take Primaris Marines I always saw as GW setting us up so that we could ignore the Primaris Marines for our homegrown chapters if we disliked them

There's always a desperation reason that can be employed.
Space Wolves tend to reject a lot of stuff from Girlyman and the Smurfs, the Codex, advice, help.
They won't be turning down marines and upgrades anytime soon.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
There's always a desperation reason that can be employed.
Space Wolves tend to reject a lot of stuff from Girlyman and the Smurfs, the Codex, advice, help.
They won't be turning down marines and upgrades anytime soon.

partiuclarly if gorwing new Primaris Marines in a bottle means they can get around having to recruit on Fenris. heck if Gulliman wants to bring the space wolves on side all he'd need to do is pop up to Logan with the tech in one hand, and a reconsisuted Wolf Brother's chapter in the other.

I don't think they'd fit with black templars depending on if they see it as an abomination against the emperor's work or not. Wolves​ may have more than others due to them sort of needing to rebuild at the moment.

 n0t_u wrote:
I don't think they'd fit with black templars depending on if they see it as an abomination against the emperor's work or not. Wolves​ may have more than others due to them sort of needing to rebuild at the moment.

In WD 40th Anniversary, there is the latest edition of Tale of 4 Gamers. One is a Black Templars dude, who says, to paraphrase, "The Black Templars love Guilliman because without him, the Black Templars would have never been formed, so its a great honour for my Castellan to serve as Robby-G's contact to the BT."

Obviously this is one dudes headcanon, which completely flies in the face of Black Templar and VIII Legion fluff (the Legion didn't want to split and the Templars don't follow the codex at all), but if GW and WD let it stand then I guess...? I imagine if they were really displeased with that they would have said "we can't publish that, you need something else."

 Deadshot wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
I don't think they'd fit with black templars depending on if they see it as an abomination against the emperor's work or not. Wolves​ may have more than others due to them sort of needing to rebuild at the moment.

In WD 40th Anniversary, there is the latest edition of Tale of 4 Gamers. One is a Black Templars dude, who says, to paraphrase, "The Black Templars love Guilliman because without him, the Black Templars would have never been formed, so its a great honour for my Castellan to serve as Robby-G's contact to the BT."

Obviously this is one dudes headcanon, which completely flies in the face of Black Templar and VIII Legion fluff (the Legion didn't want to split and the Templars don't follow the codex at all), but if GW and WD let it stand then I guess...? I imagine if they were really displeased with that they would have said "we can't publish that, you need something else."

it is worth noting a Black Templar force served along side Gulliman during his trek to Terra. a trek they volenteered to make (and died to a man making) if they didn't partiuclarly like or respect him, it seems unlikely they'd have stuck around that long. Gulliman is a PRIMARCH, and old debates long since settled aren't going to mean much in the face of that,.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
I don't think they'd fit with black templars depending on if they see it as an abomination against the emperor's work or not. Wolves​ may have more than others due to them sort of needing to rebuild at the moment.

In WD 40th Anniversary, there is the latest edition of Tale of 4 Gamers. One is a Black Templars dude, who says, to paraphrase, "The Black Templars love Guilliman because without him, the Black Templars would have never been formed, so its a great honour for my Castellan to serve as Robby-G's contact to the BT."

Obviously this is one dudes headcanon, which completely flies in the face of Black Templar and VIII Legion fluff (the Legion didn't want to split and the Templars don't follow the codex at all), but if GW and WD let it stand then I guess...? I imagine if they were really displeased with that they would have said "we can't publish that, you need something else."

it is worth noting a Black Templar force served along side Gulliman during his trek to Terra. a trek they volenteered to make (and died to a man making) if they didn't partiuclarly like or respect him, it seems unlikely they'd have stuck around that long. Gulliman is a PRIMARCH, and old debates long since settled aren't going to mean much in the face of that,.

I acknowledge that such a force existed, but a Crusade to Terra to bring your god's revived son to meet with your god and save the day... That's perfectly Black Templary enough to not contradict fluff. I'm sure the Black Templars respect him as a warrior and leader, and respect his authority as the Lord Commander and son of the Emperor... but saying they outright love him for splitting the VIII Legion is completely contradictory to the fluff, where the Imperial Fists didn't want to split. They also aren't grateful for the tactical insights of the Codex, as they don't follow it at all. So its complete headcanon but published so to be honest, it could be up in the air what direction they are taking Black Templars. They seem to make them more and more Codex adherant with every edition so who's to say in 8th Ed they won't be the Totally Codex Adherant Smurf-loving Templars instead?

except after the Iron cage, the Imperial fists WHERE willing to split, Dorn changed his mind. truthfully, as much as the horus heresy books entertain me, I'm almost looking forward to MORE a book dealing with the second founding, there are a lot of stories mysteries and misconceptions that a book trilogy could clear up.

I can see some fun possibilities.

Dark Angels
Master of recruits: "Sir, the new guys are refusing to wear the dressing gowns into battle".

Blood Angels
Master of recruits: "No pectorals on their armour? Have all new Primaris brothers report to the techmarines for mammary augmentation on the double".

Space Wolves
Jarl: "For the love of the Allfather, will you just put the fething wolfskin on?".

Imperial Fists
Master of recruits: "Here is your battle gear brother. Bolter, bolt pistol, grenades, pain glove....".
Primaris recruit: "Pain glove? Isn't that only required for breaches of discipline?"
Master of recruits: "In theory, yes. In practice, after a while you rather get to like it!
Primaris recruit: "I can't decide if that is S&M or Stockholm syndrome. Either way, I'm outta here"

Iron Hands
Iron Father: "Welcome brother. Please hold out your left hand."
Primaris recruit: "Umm, sir, what are you doing with that bone saw?"

And so on....

BrianDavion wrote:except after the Iron cage, the Imperial fists WHERE willing to split, Dorn changed his mind. truthfully, as much as the horus heresy books entertain me, I'm almost looking forward to MORE a book dealing with the second founding, there are a lot of stories mysteries and misconceptions that a book trilogy could clear up.

The Iron Cage was an act of penitance for failing the Emperor. He also realised after that incident that he would plunge the Imperium into a second civil war if he continued because Guilliman had the numerical advantage and didn't need to back down. The Imperial Navy had already opened fire on the VIII during this period over the issue. It was a Cuban Missile Crisis level tension.

Karhedron wrote:I can see some fun possibilities.

Dark Angels
Master of recruits: "Sir, the new guys are refusing to wear the dressing gowns into battle".

Blood Angels
Master of recruits: "No pectorals on their armour? Have all new Primaris brothers report to the techmarines for mammary augmentation on the double".

Space Wolves
Jarl: "For the love of the Allfather, will you just put the fething wolfskin on?".

Imperial Fists
Master of recruits: "Here is your battle gear brother. Bolter, bolt pistol, grenades, pain glove....".
Primaris recruit: "Pain glove? Isn't that only required for breaches of discipline?"
Master of recruits: "In theory, yes. In practice, after a while you rather get to like it!
Primaris recruit: "I can't decide if that is S&M or Stockholm syndrome. Either way, I'm outta here"

Iron Hands
Iron Father: "Welcome brother. Please hold out your left hand."
Primaris recruit: "Umm, sir, what are you doing with that bone saw?"

And so on....

I would love to see the Primaris and the old-school marines getting clashes of culture such as this. Being grown in a vat by Guilliman, I'd expect the new Primaris Marines to be more like Ultrarmarines regardless of geneseed style. Nurture over nature and all that. Stuff like the Iron Hands iron hands and the Dark Angel robes might strike the newbies as strange and nonsensical, having only ever known Guilliman's Codex style training and Ultramarine culture.. Their refusal to accept these strange new traditions leading to a conflict between old traditionalist Marines and new Primaris.

Sadly, I doubt this will happen as GW will push Primaris on us with all they can, and the new and old Marines will get on just fine.

it depends on a few things, presumably trhe vat grown marines where educated via hypoinduction, so it's possiable that various chapters idocentricites where programmed into them, this is especially true when you consider that Gulliman had quite the escort with him back to Terra. not saying it;'d not be intreasting to say,m but GWs got lots of ways to get around it if they choose not to go that route.

 Karhedron wrote:
I can see some fun possibilities.

Dark Angels
Master of recruits: "Sir, the new guys are refusing to wear the dressing gowns into battle".

Blood Angels
Master of recruits: "No pectorals on their armour? Have all new Primaris brothers report to the techmarines for mammary augmentation on the double".

Space Wolves
Jarl: "For the love of the Allfather, will you just put the fething wolfskin on?".

Imperial Fists
Master of recruits: "Here is your battle gear brother. Bolter, bolt pistol, grenades, pain glove....".
Primaris recruit: "Pain glove? Isn't that only required for breaches of discipline?"
Master of recruits: "In theory, yes. In practice, after a while you rather get to like it!
Primaris recruit: "I can't decide if that is S&M or Stockholm syndrome. Either way, I'm outta here"

Iron Hands
Iron Father: "Welcome brother. Please hold out your left hand."
Primaris recruit: "Umm, sir, what are you doing with that bone saw?"

And so on....

The Iron hands one got a chuckle out of me. Or though it could be along the lines of Fenris, no, way too cold here. Baal 'Way too Hot here' Gulliman to Cawl 'fussy bloody princesses, aren't they'

My homebrew chapter however wont be taking on Primaris Marines - combined with being too arrogant they've only just finished a round of mass recruiting. On the plus side, it does give me an excuse to create a brand new all primaris chapter. Go for strict codex adherence (as far as I can with the unit options) and let them develop their character and fluff on the battlefield.

Pretty sure the Dark Angels, and space wolves would be against them.

icn1982 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
I can see some fun possibilities.

Dark Angels
Master of recruits: "Sir, the new guys are refusing to wear the dressing gowns into battle".

Blood Angels
Master of recruits: "No pectorals on their armour? Have all new Primaris brothers report to the techmarines for mammary augmentation on the double".

Space Wolves
Jarl: "For the love of the Allfather, will you just put the fething wolfskin on?".

Imperial Fists
Master of recruits: "Here is your battle gear brother. Bolter, bolt pistol, grenades, pain glove....".
Primaris recruit: "Pain glove? Isn't that only required for breaches of discipline?"
Master of recruits: "In theory, yes. In practice, after a while you rather get to like it!
Primaris recruit: "I can't decide if that is S&M or Stockholm syndrome. Either way, I'm outta here"

Iron Hands
Iron Father: "Welcome brother. Please hold out your left hand."
Primaris recruit: "Umm, sir, what are you doing with that bone saw?"

And so on....

The Iron hands one got a chuckle out of me. Or though it could be along the lines of Fenris, no, way too cold here. Baal 'Way too Hot here' Gulliman to Cawl 'fussy bloody princesses, aren't they'

My homebrew chapter however wont be taking on Primaris Marines - combined with being too arrogant they've only just finished a round of mass recruiting. On the plus side, it does give me an excuse to create a brand new all primaris chapter. Go for strict codex adherence (as far as I can with the unit options) and let them develop their character and fluff on the battlefield.

*space wolves*
Will you just drink the ale...
And your now wolf marines...

Wolf. We primus...

Everything is wolf. Did you not read thr guide on how to space wolf....
You don,t have one. It was a long poem full of hunting ale, wolf, and claw...

Exactly!

 Karhedron wrote:
I can see some fun possibilities.
Blood Angels
Master of recruits: "No pectorals on their armour? Have all new Primaris brothers report to the techmarines for mammary augmentation on the double".

Primaris Marines actually come with pec armour as standard, so they'll fit right in.

I am sure GW will insure they fit all chapters without issue. The better fluff argument would be, if you can make these guys in a vat, are chapters irrelevant?

Am I the only one who notices how much marines are just like orks and Nids now?

Am i the only one who thinks the Imperium has sealed its own fate?

 Deadshot wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
I don't think they'd fit with black templars depending on if they see it as an abomination against the emperor's work or not. Wolves​ may have more than others due to them sort of needing to rebuild at the moment.

In WD 40th Anniversary, there is the latest edition of Tale of 4 Gamers. One is a Black Templars dude, who says, to paraphrase, "The Black Templars love Guilliman because without him, the Black Templars would have never been formed, so its a great honour for my Castellan to serve as Robby-G's contact to the BT."

Well then...

I'd imagine there are representatives of a lot of different Chapters in or near the Sol system. Gathering these guys up to act as mentors for the Primaris would probably help smooth out there introduction. And once the Primaris creation method has been shared out, Chapters can use it on there usual recruiting populations.

What's the fluff behind stuff like the Blood Angels (who are cut off?) received Primaris equivalent things. Have they explained if travel to/from the Dark Imperium is possible?

I'd imagine some chapters would be so cut off/surrounded that they wouldn't benefit from receiving Primaris style upgrades (however from a miniatures selling perspective - I'd imagine GW is granting this to all chapters regardless).

There is some travel between both halves of the Galaxy - otherwise they couldn't be launching a crusade into the dark half.

GW will release chapter specific kits for Primaris Marines eventually.

At the moment I would imagine that the chapters deploy them as soon as they get them, working them on the field and making the most out of them. They will all look the same for each chapter, it will take time until we see actual differences between primaris marines as they settle in i think.

They are like the legions. They took time, battles and ecperince to gain there character.

Also the chapter they are attached to will eventually influence them as well. Fight alongside long ernough. Traits cross over.

 Ginsu33 wrote:
GW will release chapter specific kits for Primaris Marines eventually.

At the moment I would imagine that the chapters deploy them as soon as they get them, working them on the field and making the most out of them. They will all look the same for each chapter, it will take time until we see actual differences between primaris marines as they settle in i think.

it's worth noting that shoulderpads and heads are gonna be interchangeable too. so with that it'd be VERY easy to add some chapter feel to them. for example, toss someforge world salamnder shoulder pads on the primaris Marines,

or replace the sergents head armor with the space wolf helmet from the space wolf upgrade pack, etc. all minor bits and blobs that would likely allow for customization.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Pretty sure the Dark Angels, and space wolves would be against them.

Probably Raven Guard as well considering what happened when Corax tried to rebuild his legion (albeit Alpha Legion sabotaged those efforts and were actually at fault for the monstrosities that came forth).

 Elbows wrote:
What's the fluff behind stuff like the Blood Angels (who are cut off?) received Primaris equivalent things. Have they explained if travel to/from the Dark Imperium is possible?

I'd imagine some chapters would be so cut off/surrounded that they wouldn't benefit from receiving Primaris style upgrades (however from a miniatures selling perspective - I'd imagine GW is granting this to all chapters regardless).

I would imagine that not all Blood Angels were on Baal. And if we are right about different geneseed being used depending on the Chapter, then they are Blood Angels regardless of whether they were ever on Baal.

Well, I'm hoping what happens is similar to what happens during the Great Crusade when Primarchs recruit from 2 different locations. During the GC some of the OG Terran Astartes get a bit annoyed being phased out in favour of the Primarch's home, and the clashes of culture and experience. This is also what directly led to the Night Lords going evil, all the Nostramo recruits were murdery psychopaths before Space Marines, and turned in, well, the Night Lords.

What we have now is the reverse, the OG marines come from homeworlds and have their own culture , style and tons of experience, vs the Terran Primaris Marines that have uniform, Guilliman culture, Codex adherance, and lack experience but think they are better.