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Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

Edit:

NOVA format is out and I love it! Book missions are meh

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 01:55:21


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Friendly Peat Beast






The Great Marsh

Putting out an unofficial FAQ, especially when GW has shown willingness to put out official ones, before the rules even officially drop would be nuts!

Same thing for setting point levels, rules on army construction or anything else, imo...

We're all excited for the new edition, but because it's so new there's going to have to be a period of getting used to what it really is, rather than applying old rules / structures to it.

Check out the ModCube webstore! http://www.modcube.com

 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

 RiTides wrote:
Putting out an unofficial FAQ, especially when GW has shown willingness to put out official ones, before the rules even officially drop would be nuts!

Same thing for setting point levels, rules on army construction or anything else, imo...

We're all excited for the new edition, but because it's so new there's going to have to be a period of getting used to what it really is, rather than applying old rules / structures to it.


The TO that runs the Huzzah Hobbies tourney on June 17th is also part of the Nova organization, with this early leak will allow them to better setup this tourney and also for their clients to better prepare.

Now the TO don't have to do anything like your suggesting, he can just pick random missions out of the rule book and give out the list restrictions the day of and have Mike Brandt help people build lists that day. Or they could use this leak to get a head start on modifying Nova missions and the Nova Army construction guidelines for the sake of their loyal customers.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well considering the matched missions are nearly exactly the same as 7th ed. I hope tournaments mostly keep thier old missions primers since the brb versions are god awful and unbalanced as fek toward mobile elite armies.

And just from the two main armies I play there is still a bit of gak in the rules that is completely against the rules as intention. That I am sure will require FAQs.
Like a freakin bomb squig for orks has a bs of 2+ and ws2+.... do you really think gw intended him to man emplaced weapons? Yet it's a freakin infantry model....that doesn't count for morale...just take a bunch of ammo runts, attack squigs, Grot ordlies, bomb squigs, etc.
a unit of 5 tankbustas with 5 bomb squigs needs to take 6 casualties before they even need to worry about morale and the rules state you use the orks toughness for most of these optional infantry models.
There is a bunch of nonsense like allowing infantry models from taking weapons from certain lists that include stuff like dreadnaut weapons.
Just a bunch of random sloppy rules writing.
8th ed will need a good cleaning before it's tournament ready.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 05:50:35


 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Indianapolis, IN

Personally, I'll be sticking to the GW rules and FAQ the most. The Match play guide lines are pretty clear on stuff.

I believe what you will see for events is 2000pts, 2 1/2 hour rounds, 2 detachments per army.

Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Record: 6-2
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Record: 1-0
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company: 2000
Elysians: 500
 
   
Made in fr
Been Around the Block



France

gungo wrote:
Well considering the matched missions are nearly exactly the same as 7th ed. I hope tournaments mostly keep thier old missions primers since the brb versions are god awful and unbalanced as fek toward mobile elite armies.

And just from the two main armies I play there is still a bit of gak in the rules that is completely against the rules as intention. That I am sure will require FAQs.
Like a freakin bomb squig for orks has a bs of 2+ and ws2+.... do you really think gw intended him to man emplaced weapons? Yet it's a freakin infantry model....that doesn't count for morale...just take a bunch of ammo runts, attack squigs, Grot ordlies, bomb squigs, etc.
a unit of 5 tankbustas with 5 bomb squigs needs to take 6 casualties before they even need to worry about morale and the rules state you use the orks toughness for most of these optional infantry models.
There is a bunch of nonsense like allowing infantry models from taking weapons from certain lists that include stuff like dreadnaut weapons.
Just a bunch of random sloppy rules writing.
8th ed will need a good cleaning before it's tournament ready.

You can take only 2 squig per 5 tankbustas but yeah keep it on.

40: 10 000 Orks, 3000 Tau, 2000 Deathwatch
AOS: 2000 Kharadrons Overlords 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hi,

NOVA head organizer and 40k 8th playtester here.

Most events will use 2k points following Matched Play rules from the core 40k rulebook. This answers questions 1-3.

On your FAQ questions, all are answered by the core rules via RAW. That said, for unanswerable FAQ we will be working in concert with GW, and I anticipate minimal need for third party FAQ.

NOVA will use revised versions of its missions and possibly others from the ITC catalog for tournament play. Though eternal and maelstrom missions are perfectly fine for pickup points games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 12:51:16


 
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Indianapolis, IN

MVBrandt wrote:
Hi,

NOVA head organizer and 40k 8th playtester here.

Most events will use 2k points following Matched Play rules from the core 40k rulebook. This answers questions 1-3.

On your FAQ questions, all are answered by the core rules via RAW. That said, for unanswerable FAQ we will be working in concert with GW, and I anticipate minimal need for third party FAQ.

NOVA will use revised versions of its missions and possibly others from the ITC catalog for tournament play. Though eternal and maelstrom missions are perfectly fine for pickup points games.


That makes me happy to see that there is a minimal need for a third party FAQ.

Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Record: 6-2
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Record: 1-0
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company: 2000
Elysians: 500
 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




USA

MVBrandt wrote:
Hi,

NOVA head organizer and 40k 8th playtester here.

Most events will use 2k points following Matched Play rules from the core 40k rulebook. This answers questions 1-3.

On your FAQ questions, all are answered by the core rules via RAW. That said, for unanswerable FAQ we will be working in concert with GW, and I anticipate minimal need for third party FAQ.

NOVA will use revised versions of its missions and possibly others from the ITC catalog for tournament play. Though eternal and maelstrom missions are perfectly fine for pickup points games.


Nice! So basically to sum it up, for those who don't have the leaks.

2000 points
3 Detachment max
Whole army must share one faction regardless of # of detachments (i.e. 'Imperium', 'Chaos'), so basically no allying like back in 7th ed.

   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Indianapolis, IN

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
MVBrandt wrote:
Hi,

NOVA head organizer and 40k 8th playtester here.

Most events will use 2k points following Matched Play rules from the core 40k rulebook. This answers questions 1-3.

On your FAQ questions, all are answered by the core rules via RAW. That said, for unanswerable FAQ we will be working in concert with GW, and I anticipate minimal need for third party FAQ.

NOVA will use revised versions of its missions and possibly others from the ITC catalog for tournament play. Though eternal and maelstrom missions are perfectly fine for pickup points games.


Nice! So basically to sum it up, for those who don't have the leaks.

2000 points
3 Detachment max
Whole army must share one faction regardless of # of detachments (i.e. 'Imperium', 'Chaos'), so basically no allying like back in 7th ed.



I believe you can still ally it just depends on your faction keywords.

Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Record: 6-2
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Record: 1-0
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company: 2000
Elysians: 500
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It isn't allying anymore. You simply can only craft a narrative or matched play army if every model shares at least one faction keywords.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 15:34:33


 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




gungo wrote:
Well considering the matched missions are nearly exactly the same as 7th ed. I hope tournaments mostly keep thier old missions primers since the brb versions are god awful and unbalanced as fek toward mobile elite armies.

40k has favoured mobile armies since time immemorial. Unless you've played the new missions, how do you know they're unbalanced? Are you sure elite armies will be best? I'm 99% sure they won't be just looking at Tyranids alone.

And just from the two main armies I play there is still a bit of gak in the rules that is completely against the rules as intention. That I am sure will require FAQs.
Like a freakin bomb squig for orks has a bs of 2+ and ws2+.... do you really think gw intended him to man emplaced weapons? Yet it's a freakin infantry model....that doesn't count for morale...just take a bunch of ammo runts, attack squigs, Grot ordlies, bomb squigs, etc.
a unit of 5 tankbustas with 5 bomb squigs needs to take 6 casualties before they even need to worry about morale and the rules state you use the orks toughness for most of these optional infantry models.
There is a bunch of nonsense like allowing infantry models from taking weapons from certain lists that include stuff like dreadnaut weapons.
Just a bunch of random sloppy rules writing.
8th ed will need a good cleaning before it's tournament ready.

What gun emplacement can a bomb squig use precisely?
You can't take 5 bomb squigs with 5 tankbustas.
You can't take dreadnought weapons as CC weapons on anything but dreadnoughts, the allowed lists of melee weapons are defined at the start of every army index, not the points section.

Good grief, if you're going to complain about rules at least get them right. Maybe play a game or two first. If you think armies full of ammo runts and grot orderlies are going to do well, then you'll be in for a shock.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Boston, MA

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
MVBrandt wrote:
Hi,

NOVA head organizer and 40k 8th playtester here.

Most events will use 2k points following Matched Play rules from the core 40k rulebook. This answers questions 1-3.

On your FAQ questions, all are answered by the core rules via RAW. That said, for unanswerable FAQ we will be working in concert with GW, and I anticipate minimal need for third party FAQ.

NOVA will use revised versions of its missions and possibly others from the ITC catalog for tournament play. Though eternal and maelstrom missions are perfectly fine for pickup points games.


Nice! So basically to sum it up, for those who don't have the leaks.

2000 points
3 Detachment max
Whole army must share one faction regardless of # of detachments (i.e. 'Imperium', 'Chaos'), so basically no allying like back in 7th ed.



Unlimited detachments in regular matched play.

Edit: Nevermind. Its a sliding scale with the cap on detachments based on points size.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 17:39:26


6th Edition Tournaments:
2013 Golden Throne Southwest: First
2013 Railhead Rumble: Best General
2014 Alamo GT: Best Overall

7th Edition Tournaments
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2015 LVO: Best Sisters  
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Negative
   
Made in at
Battlefield Professional




Austria

I really hoped we are going back to 1500 points or less for tournaments and increase the amount of games

specially that GW suggest larger tables with 2k games (8th edi 1850 was already too big for 6*4 tables)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 18:02:27


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

They don't recommend the larger table until 2500. Seems inline, based on what I'm seeing games should fit into 2 hours for experienced played at 2k.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)

Now Taking Commissions:
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 kodos wrote:
I really hoped we are going back to 1500 points or less for tournaments and increase the amount of games

specially that GW suggest larger tables with 2k games (8th edi 1850 was already too big for 6*4 tables)


I suggest building a few 7th edition 1850 lists using 8th edition points when they release. Generally speaking, in combination with the fact there are no free units any more, 2000 points in 8th is not as big as it was in 7th, and 1500 is downright paltry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 18:05:43


 
   
Made in at
Battlefield Professional




Austria

 Hulksmash wrote:
They don't recommend the larger table until 2500. Seems inline, based on what I'm seeing games should fit into 2 hours for experienced played at 2k.

larger tables and 3 hours playtime for 2k games
https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2017/5/31/880584_md-.jpg

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Um, 1001-2000 = 6x4 and 2-3 hours. So unless you're suggesting 1000 point games and 4x4 tables, or 2001+ point games and 8 x4 tables ...

I can affirm, however, that 2k in 2-2.5 hours is about normal playing at an enjoyable pace.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Seattle, WA

The one item that I think would be helpful from the TO community would be a guidance regarding cover. Since most tables at tournaments are not populated by GW made terrain it would be useful to know the intention for their use. Also, will it be as clear cut as "if two models out of 50 are not in the terrain piece, the whole unit does not get cover"?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 18:25:09


 
   
Made in at
Battlefield Professional




Austria

MVBrandt wrote:

I suggest building a few 7th edition 1850 lists using 8th edition points when they release. Generally speaking, in combination with the fact there are no free units any more, 2000 points in 8th is not as big as it was in 7th, and 1500 is downright paltry.


done that and most of the 1850 lists ended up being 1500 or less
of course all those free transport are now really expensive and end up with more than 2k
but mass infantry lists are still cheap

and I understand that all those with 3 Wraith Knights want 2k or more for tournaments because they still want to play all 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MVBrandt wrote:
Um, 1001-2000 = 6x4 and 2-3 hours. So unless you're suggesting 1000 point games and 4x4 tables, or 2001+ point games and 8 x4 tables ...


so 1500 are 2,5 hours
and if the 1 point above 2k is the reason why the game time increase from 2 to 3 hours and needs a bigger table than there is something wrong with the game

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 13:35:38


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

With the change to the psychic phase, less re-rolling, and no more moving out of the moving phase (outside of charging) a metric ton of time wastage went away. Add in a lack of pregame assuming we just get to pick our power and traits and you're off to the races for dropping it fast.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)

Now Taking Commissions:
http://hulksmashstudios.webs.com/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm not sure the purpose in getting into arguments with folks arguing how long the game takes based on leaked pictures and conjecture.
   
Made in at
Battlefield Professional




Austria

or played with the leaked rules
but it is still hard to tell how long it really takes as the problem are most of the time the player
and new40k has a lot of stuff that let players think about before they touch a dice
.
It was possible to play 2k points in 2 hours or 1k in 4 hours depending on how long people were thinking about what they want to do next

and I believe you that you get your 2k games done in 2 hours if both know what to do
but than on tournaments are also those who take 15 minutes to decide how to allocate 5 wounds for one unit.
And I personally‚Äč prefer to play more short games than few long games.

but my problem is not so much the time as the model count and table size
1k point games were more fun because there was actual space to move around, you needed to make decisions while writing the list instead of taking all and more options during the game has there was not enough to get all objectives done in 1 round.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 20:31:32


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




 kodos wrote:
MVBrandt wrote:

I suggest building a few 7th edition 1850 lists using 8th edition points when they release. Generally speaking, in combination with the fact there are no free units any more, 2000 points in 8th is not as big as it was in 7th, and 1500 is downright paltry.


done that and most of the 1850 lists ended up being 1500 or less
of course all those free transport are now really expensive and end up with more than 2k
but mass infantry lists are still cheap

and I understand that all those with 3 Phantom Knights want 2k or more for tournaments because they still want to play all 3.

What list actually comes out cheaper which was any good in 7th? I mean, to be honest, what list comes out cheaper at all? I can't think of any, other than maybe carnifex heavy Nids. Even Ork Boyz cost the same or more. I'm genuinely curious; all the 1850 Necron lists come out to 2500 points at least.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




The real tournament question is whether the advanced terrain rules are going to be used. The core rules cover is enough for me, but there are all those other rules deep in the rule book about craters and Ruins.
   
Made in es
Krazed Killa Kan




Barcelona, Spain



so 1500 are 2,5 hours

and if the 1 point above 2k is the reason why the game time increase from 2 to 3 hours and needs a bigger table than there is something wrong with the game


Dude. Ask yourself honestly this question: who plays 2001 points? That table is meant for 2.5k and 3k lists. And a 2k game is meant to take 3 hours, not 2. You can't make such a dishonest reading.
   
Made in at
Battlefield Professional




Austria

Lord Kragan wrote:
You can't make such a dishonest reading.

Just reading what stands there, if 1k-2k games take 2-3 hours, 1k=2h, 2k=3h, >2k= >3h and 1,5k is 2,5h

the example with 2001 points just to make it clear that there can never be a hardcap and 1999 points will need the same time as 2001

Eyjio wrote:

What list actually comes out cheaper which was any good in 7th? I mean, to be honest, what list comes out cheaper at all? I can't think of any, other than maybe carnifex heavy Nids. Even Ork Boyz cost the same or more. I'm genuinely curious; all the 1850 Necron lists come out to 2500 points at least.


it depends on what you see as good in 7th and of course the list is adjusted to 8th
I did not play tournaments because of too much randomness, but for example my Soro List fits well in 1.5k
because transports can now have multiple units, I just need 1 Rhino for 2*5 Sisters and the new AOP allow me to

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




 kodos wrote:
it depends on what you see as good in 7th and of course the list is adjusted to 8th
I did not play tournaments because of too much randomness, but for example my Soro List fits well in 1.5k
because transports can now have multiple units, I just need 1 Rhino for 2*5 Sisters and the new AOP allow me to

So it's not that the list is actually cheaper, it's that you've altered it for 8th which makes it come out cheaper? That's pretty different to claiming that most 1850 lists come down to 1500.
   
Made in at
Battlefield Professional




Austria

Eyjio wrote:

So it's not that the list is actually cheaper, it's that you've altered it for 8th which makes it come out cheaper? That's pretty different to claiming that most 1850 lists come down to 1500.

it is different, of course, but no 7th list will be played exactly the same in 8th as new rules need new army lists
a 1:1 transfer gives you more points that are maybe wasted (why to buy 2 expensive Rhinos if one does the same job) or is illegal (no pods for dreads any more, a 100 points saved) or is not effective as you miss something you need now

just saying I calculated my old list, and ended up with 500 points more, so the total number of points need to be higher, but it is illegal now and I would never play it because it is really bad in 8th too (and my new list with the same style and more models cost less than in would have in 7th)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
 
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