Switch Theme:

8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in hk
Fresh-Faced New User




Two implications reading through the 8E rules:
No LoS is needed to Charge.
No LoS or range needed for Overwatch.

No LoS to charge:
Charge Phase, Choose Targets specifies that the target(s) must be within 12". In contrast, Shooting Phase, Choose Targets refers to both Range and LOS.

No LoS or range for Overwatch:
Charge Phase, Overwatch simply says the target unit can fire overwatch. The only specification is "Resolved like a normal shooting attack".
Here, I'm going to argue that the restrictions of Shooting Phase, Choose Targets shouldn't apply here: the target is already chosen by virtue of charging. On the other hand, the Shooting Phase includes a "Resolve Attacks" section: it seems reasonable to go directly to that process from Overwatch.
"Overwatch . . . uses all the normal rules" brings in the possibility of range and LOS mattering, however.

Why does it matter?

If range matters for overwatch, flamers can be avoided by starting 8.5" away - bizarre? [ EDIT: GW Livestream confirms Flamers can't overwatch chargers outside 8" - thanks skarsol! ]
If LOS matters for overwatch, chargers can avoid overwatch entirely by standing behind a pillar before charging.

I think no LOS to charge is very clear; overwatch less so. So what do you think?

A: In 8th Edition, Overwatch is only possible if the charging unit is within range and LoS. [ Supported by GW Livestream comment ]
B: In 8th Edition, Overwatch is possible with any shooting weapon regardless of the visibility or distance of the charging unit.









This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:24:44


 
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

I see nothing that says you need LOS to charge either so that is pretty clear.
The overwatch rules state "resolved like a normal shooting attack (...) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll". To me this is pretty cut and dry, you need range and line of sight to fire overwatch because you need it for regular shooting.

Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Palm Beach, FL

Fully agree with roflmajog.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




In the live stream game today they explicitly stated that if the charging unit was outside 8", then flamers could not be used in Overwatch.
   
Made in us
Snivelling Workbot




That's pretty stupid if it holds up. Both in terms of verisimilitude and balance.

The whole point of flamers is that they have great overwatch ability. If they can't at least fire during overwatch there's a substantial chance they won't ever get to fire before ending up in melee.

Plus the deepstrike rule of deploying >9" away from enemy models means this will come up a lot. Also with a command point re-roll the probability of making a 9" charge is 52%.

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




What if you charge a character in first? If following all of the normal shooting phase rules, does that mean they can't be targeted for overwatch, and can therefore block a unit from overwatching if they make it in?
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

The rule for characters specifies they can't be targeted in the shooting phase so you can't use that to dodge overwatch.

Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Medicinal Carrots wrote:
What if you charge a character in first? If following all of the normal shooting phase rules, does that mean they can't be targeted for overwatch, and can therefore block a unit from overwatching if they make it in?


I think the "can't target character" rule applies only to the shooting phase, as the rules say "The character can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest enemy unit to the model that is shooting"

And

"Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albiet one in the enemy's charge phase)"

So I'd say regardless of whether the character charges 1st or 5th, they get overwatch shots against them-- the rule applies to the shooting PHASE and overwatch is a shooting ATTACK.

EDIT: My Lit Major training made me second. Stupid lit degree...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 03:23:13


-three orange whips 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

 roflmajog wrote:
The rule for characters specifies they can't be targeted in the shooting phase so you can't use that to dodge overwatch.


I think you're mistaken. Cant be targeted if their are other closer enemy units. If my warboss is leading the way.... he can be targeted.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 14:51:04


 
   
Made in gb
Emboldened Warlock




Widnes UK

I wasn't mistaken I was just lazy and didn't type it out in full because it was only the shooting phase bit that was relevant.

Ulthwe: 7500 points 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Overwatch 100% needs range. The playtesters fronline confirmed it. Doing 8'' and 1mm charges to not get flamered

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Sorry for the necro (this thread's a top search result). According to the 8e Rulebook FAQ (as of v1.6, found here), line of sight is required in order for the unit being charged to fire overwatch. In addition, charging units don't have to be able to see their target.

Think of it like an ambush; the chargers are hidden and give no time for the charged unit to react.
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Fixture of Dakka







Thanks for the clarification but please do not necro old threads.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: