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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/02 04:46:26
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Two implications reading through the 8E rules:
No LoS is needed to Charge.
No LoS or range needed for Overwatch.
No LoS to charge:
Charge Phase, Choose Targets specifies that the target(s) must be within 12". In contrast, Shooting Phase, Choose Targets refers to both Range and LOS.
No LoS or range for Overwatch:
Charge Phase, Overwatch simply says the target unit can fire overwatch. The only specification is "Resolved like a normal shooting attack".
Here, I'm going to argue that the restrictions of Shooting Phase, Choose Targets shouldn't apply here: the target is already chosen by virtue of charging. On the other hand, the Shooting Phase includes a "Resolve Attacks" section: it seems reasonable to go directly to that process from Overwatch.
"Overwatch . . . uses all the normal rules" brings in the possibility of range and LOS mattering, however.
Why does it matter?
If range matters for overwatch, flamers can be avoided by starting 8.5" away - bizarre? [ EDIT: GW Livestream confirms Flamers can't overwatch chargers outside 8" - thanks skarsol! ]
If LOS matters for overwatch, chargers can avoid overwatch entirely by standing behind a pillar before charging.
I think no LOS to charge is very clear; overwatch less so. So what do you think?
A: In 8th Edition, Overwatch is only possible if the charging unit is within range and LoS. [ Supported by GW Livestream comment ]
B: In 8th Edition, Overwatch is possible with any shooting weapon regardless of the visibility or distance of the charging unit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:24:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/02 10:14:40
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Emboldened Warlock
Widnes UK
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I see nothing that says you need LOS to charge either so that is pretty clear.
The overwatch rules state "resolved like a normal shooting attack (...) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is always required for a successful hit roll". To me this is pretty cut and dry, you need range and line of sight to fire overwatch because you need it for regular shooting.
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Ulthwe: 7500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/02 16:21:47
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Fully agree with roflmajog.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/02 16:30:11
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Dakka Veteran
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In the live stream game today they explicitly stated that if the charging unit was outside 8", then flamers could not be used in Overwatch.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/03 04:00:37
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Snivelling Workbot
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That's pretty stupid if it holds up. Both in terms of verisimilitude and balance.
The whole point of flamers is that they have great overwatch ability. If they can't at least fire during overwatch there's a substantial chance they won't ever get to fire before ending up in melee.
Plus the deepstrike rule of deploying >9" away from enemy models means this will come up a lot. Also with a command point re-roll the probability of making a 9" charge is 52%.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/03 17:27:54
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Regular Dakkanaut
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What if you charge a character in first? If following all of the normal shooting phase rules, does that mean they can't be targeted for overwatch, and can therefore block a unit from overwatching if they make it in?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/03 17:40:46
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Emboldened Warlock
Widnes UK
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The rule for characters specifies they can't be targeted in the shooting phase so you can't use that to dodge overwatch.
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Ulthwe: 7500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/04 03:22:27
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Medicinal Carrots wrote:What if you charge a character in first? If following all of the normal shooting phase rules, does that mean they can't be targeted for overwatch, and can therefore block a unit from overwatching if they make it in?
I think the "can't target character" rule applies only to the shooting phase, as the rules say "The character can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are the closest enemy unit to the model that is shooting"
And
"Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albiet one in the enemy's charge phase)"
So I'd say regardless of whether the character charges 1st or 5th, they get overwatch shots against them-- the rule applies to the shooting PHASE and overwatch is a shooting ATTACK.
EDIT: My Lit Major training made me second. Stupid lit degree...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 03:23:13
-three orange whips |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/04 14:49:52
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Krazed Killa Kan
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roflmajog wrote:The rule for characters specifies they can't be targeted in the shooting phase so you can't use that to dodge overwatch.
I think you're mistaken. Cant be targeted if their are other closer enemy units. If my warboss is leading the way.... he can be targeted.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 14:51:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/04 15:15:09
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Emboldened Warlock
Widnes UK
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I wasn't mistaken I was just lazy and didn't type it out in full because it was only the shooting phase bit that was relevant.
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Ulthwe: 7500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/04 18:23:40
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Mysterious Techpriest
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Overwatch 100% needs range. The playtesters fronline confirmed it. Doing 8'' and 1mm charges to not get flamered
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/01 01:33:45
Subject: Re:8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Sorry for the necro (this thread's a top search result). According to the 8e Rulebook FAQ (as of v1.6, found here), line of sight is required in order for the unit being charged to fire overwatch. In addition, charging units don't have to be able to see their target.
Think of it like an ambush; the chargers are hidden and give no time for the charged unit to react.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/01 01:44:38
Subject: 8E: No LoS or range needed for Overwatch
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[MOD]
Fixture of Dakka
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Thanks for the clarification but please do not necro old threads.
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On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire. |
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