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Hi guys!
I'm building my first hive tyrant and I can't decide weather I should put wings on him or not. What do you guys think?

melee with shooting without.

Our melee weapons look superior and the ability to ignore terrain, assault supersonic flyers and bypass enemy models is very powerful. But if you are going dakka heavy then just walk them up with the rest of the swarm.

Mobility is still the King. I think the wing option at least let you move faster right? And you almost surely want to get them within 18 inches of enemy. And if I got the info from leak right, Deathspitter wing Hive Tyrant is only 199pts? Soit is much more scary than before and 30pts cheaper. Why doubt?

Unless the walk Tyrant is lower than 150pts mark. Flyrant is definitely the choice Imo.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Mobility is still the King. I think the wing option at least let you move faster right? And you almost surely want to get them within 18 inches of enemy. And if I got the info from leak right, Deathspitter wing Hive Tyrant is only 199pts? Soit is much more scary than before and 30pts cheaper. Why doubt?

Unless the walk Tyrant is lower than 150pts mark. Flyrant is definitely the choice Imo.

Well if you're gonna give him wings, I see no reason to give him ranged weapons.

 killerpenguin wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Mobility is still the King. I think the wing option at least let you move faster right? And you almost surely want to get them within 18 inches of enemy. And if I got the info from leak right, Deathspitter wing Hive Tyrant is only 199pts? Soit is much more scary than before and 30pts cheaper. Why doubt?

Unless the walk Tyrant is lower than 150pts mark. Flyrant is definitely the choice Imo.

Well if you're gonna give him wings, I see no reason to give him ranged weapons.

Why not? 2 sets of talons only gives +1 attack vs 1 set of talons. Unless the points aren't worth it, I'd say 1 set of devourers or dethspitters plus your choice of melee weapon is the way to go now.

 Zimko wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Mobility is still the King. I think the wing option at least let you move faster right? And you almost surely want to get them within 18 inches of enemy. And if I got the info from leak right, Deathspitter wing Hive Tyrant is only 199pts? Soit is much more scary than before and 30pts cheaper. Why doubt?

Unless the walk Tyrant is lower than 150pts mark. Flyrant is definitely the choice Imo.

Well if you're gonna give him wings, I see no reason to give him ranged weapons.

Why not? 2 sets of talons only gives +1 attack vs 1 set of talons. Unless the points aren't worth it, I'd say 1 set of devourers or dethspitters plus your choice of melee weapon is the way to go now.

RAW 2 sets of talons gives +2 attacks. When you fight you can choose which of your attacks are using which weapons. ScyTalons says if you have more than one than this weapon gives you +1 attack. So if 2 attacks use 1 pair and 2 attacks use another pair then in total thats 4+2=6 attacks (not the real numbers just an example).

It also means trygons get +3 attacks.

Wow. I wonder if that's intended. I was wondering why they put 3 sets of talons on the trygon and maybe that's why? Your logic is sound and I can't argue against it.

Still, +2 attacks vs 6 shots at ranged. It'll need some playtesting to decide which is better.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Zimko wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Mobility is still the King. I think the wing option at least let you move faster right? And you almost surely want to get them within 18 inches of enemy. And if I got the info from leak right, Deathspitter wing Hive Tyrant is only 199pts? Soit is much more scary than before and 30pts cheaper. Why doubt?

Unless the walk Tyrant is lower than 150pts mark. Flyrant is definitely the choice Imo.

Well if you're gonna give him wings, I see no reason to give him ranged weapons.

Why not? 2 sets of talons only gives +1 attack vs 1 set of talons. Unless the points aren't worth it, I'd say 1 set of devourers or dethspitters plus your choice of melee weapon is the way to go now.

RAW 2 sets of talons gives +2 attacks. When you fight you can choose which of your attacks are using which weapons. ScyTalons says if you have more than one than this weapon gives you +1 attack. So if 2 attacks use 1 pair and 2 attacks use another pair then in total thats 4+2=6 attacks (not the real numbers just an example).

It also means trygons get +3 attacks.

On the trygon prime it says "if the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons it can make 1 additional attack each time it fights" It doesn't mention what happens if you have 3 pairs. I assume you get 2 extra attacks.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Mobility is still the King. I think the wing option at least let you move faster right? And you almost surely want to get them within 18 inches of enemy. And if I got the info from leak right, Deathspitter wing Hive Tyrant is only 199pts? Soit is much more scary than before and 30pts cheaper. Why doubt?

Unless the walk Tyrant is lower than 150pts mark. Flyrant is definitely the choice Imo.

All deathspitter flyrant would be 211pts, 170+1(tail)+40(4*10 guns). Still decent though considering the strength of the gun.
Also it's possible to have a Walkrant @ a measly 1 extra point from base value (144), only need Monstrous Rending Claws which have no cost, only the tail needs buying.

Flyrant with 2 sets of rend are looking like a good option.

Less attacks but hit harder

GodDamUser wrote:
Flyrant with 2 sets of rend are looking like a good option.

Less attacks but hit harder

Monstrous Scything Talons cost a little more and are always better imho. Reroll 1s, 1 more attack and always 3 damage compared to -6 AP on sixes for the rending ones

KurtAngle2 wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Flyrant with 2 sets of rend are looking like a good option.

Less attacks but hit harder

Monstrous Scything Talons cost a little more and are always better imho. Reroll 1s, 1 more attack and always 3 damage compared to -6 AP on sixes for the rending ones

40 points is not "a little" more. 1 Set of Monstrous Rending Claws, 2 Deatspitter with Maggots. Wings Adrenal Glands. Threatens all, does damage all the time, does still cost less than the Scything talons variant.

The thing to remember now is that your Flyrant is going to be easier to shoot while it is flying around. You want it in combat as soon as possible so a CC build Flyrant is better than a shooty Flyrant as it should be spending most of its time in combat smashing faces on a 2+ with re-rolls (dual Scytalons).

All of them will need playtesting, but I'm currently liking the budget versions. Wings are still a no brainer I'm my book, but either 2x Rending Claws or Rending Claws and 2x Death Spitters for a jack of all trades. That said if Scything Talons do indeed grant +2 attacks then I will reconsider. If it's only +1 attack then I feel like the reroll to wound from the rending claws and the points saved off set the benefits of the Scything Talons.

For 5 pts adrenal glands kind of seem like no brainers as well.

How often are you gonna need -6 AP? Meq get 6+ save against the -3 AP. The Monstrous scything talons are considerably better with the set 3 damage.

RAW the +2 atks for scytals is legit, so I think there is a case for:
2x Scytal (217pts)
1x Rc, 2xDS (196pts)
2xRC (176pts)

And of course 2xDS (211pts)

With 2+ to hit that reroll 1s is extremely good until your wounds depreciate - without it even with the +2 atks I don't think I'd consider scytals over RC. I do feel like 20pts for the option to shoot is pretty solid though.

I'm not sure if I will ever not take the Swarm Lord personally. His buffs are so good, and he is so deadly, that its hard not to take him, even with his absurd 300pt cost.

Obviously, I can see focused fire lazcannons being a problem, but that seems true for just about everything in the game.

I'm already making lists for some tyrant guard and venonthropes plus casting "The horror!!!" to making this shoot -1,or -2 BS to hit him. That should make him pretty mean to kill.

Wait. You do get +2 and +3 attacks....wow.

You need to be able to "use" all of your weapons in the same combat, which previously we couldn't do. We just had to pick which weapon we were using that round and make all of our attacks with that weapon. But now, the BRB makes it clear that we can split attacks between different weapons in CC. Therefore, as long as I have at least 3 attacks, I can use 1 for each set of scything talons. Sweet baby Jesus that's good. Man! I might need to shell out 10 more points for 2x scything talons on my tyrants instead of saving 10 points and giving them rending claws!

So I just mathed it out for a tyrant and vs T7 and T8, the scything talons are literally identical (well almost but like 1.94 wounds on average for talons and 1.92 wounds for rending claws) but the talons do 3 damage, which is just flat better...and that's for the targets that are supposed to be "best" for rending claws. Literally anything T6 or below, the double talons are substantially better. I think it's worth 10 extra points on the tyrants....crap brb re-writing my lists...