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Can you mix Ynarri and none Ynarri units in one detachment? For example Yrvaine and a unit of Ynarri Striking Scorpions plus a unit of Incubi with Power From Pain?

How about in one army, but multiple detachments? Same example Yrvaine and scorpions, then a separate detachment with Drazhar and Incubi?

Are either of those legal? I really can't figure it out.

I'm not 100% sure, but here's how it looks to me:

The Ynnari Army List page says that "...any Aeldari units can be part of an Ynnari army". So what is a "Ynnari army"? In the main rulebook, "army" clearly refers to your entire list, not just a single detachment. And the "Choose Armies" page says that "All of the units in a matched play army... must have at least one Faction keyword in common..."

So I think the most reasonable reading of it is that a "<Faction keyword> army" is an army where all of the units share that keyword. In that case then Ynnari Striking Scorpions could never be in the same army as a non-Ynnari Aeldari unit, regardless of how its detachments are organized, because Striking Scorpions only gain the Ynnari keyword in a Ynnari army which by definition does not contain non-Ynnari units.

Also note that Aeldari units taken as part of a Ynnari army aren't given a choice about getting the Ynnari keyword, so if you have a "Ynnari army", whatever that is, then all of the Aeldari units in it are Ynnari.

You can technically still mix Ynnari and non-Ynnari units in the same army or even detachment. The three Ynnari-specific HQs can still be taken in an Aeldari army (this mostly seems like a bad idea but maybe the Yncarne isn't a crazy choice). You can also take Unaligned units like fortifications in a Ynnari army.

My interpretation:
Units can only gain the Ynarri keyword if you take a 'Ynarri army' - meaning all of your units must be Ynarri in every detachment in order to gain strength from death.

The exception to this is the triumvirate characters, as they have the Aeldari keyword and thus can be included in a mixed Aeldari army even as the only Ynarri (just like in last edition).

I think I'm going to stay away from the Ynarri this edition - Rising Crescendo and Power from Pain are too good to pass up for close combat units, I think. Also, soulburst is just so overpowered on shooting units and really interrupts the flow of the game, its no fun.

Yeah, I'm probably going to stick with my none Ynarri army, that way I can take Covens units. I was just really confused by it after all the definition for Ynarri army is not super clear.

We had the same discussion yesterday and came the opposite conclusion. The Ynnari rules state any unit can be Ynnari, it doesn't say they all have to be.
As to the faction keyword thing, they're all Aeldari. So they share that keyword.

If you take an Aldaeri army all units keep their PFP and Battle Focus. However picking Ynnari units would, by your logic, be impossible in an Aeldari army because you cannot include any units as Ynnari unless you include all and change your army from Aeldari to Ynnari. That makes no sense to me.

To me, because Ynnari can be anything, the game just asks you to define what you're playing as Ynnari and what not.

The only thing that makes me doubt my logic is the definition of "army". However, if the only requirement of an army is a shared keyword (Aeldari) and the Ynnari rules have you then define which units are Ynnari and which aren't, I don't see a problem.

Where do you see it say that you select units to be Ynnari? All I can find is where it qualifies that anything outside of Covens and some named characters and the Avatar can be part of an Ynnari "army," and then talks about units *within* that Ynnari army.

All I see is it talking about an Ynnari army and how that alters the units within it (within the Ynnari army), nothing about choosing which units become Ynnari.

I would like your interpretation to be true. However I lean towards the earlier one, I mostly just want to be able to use my covens units, so if I could mix in a few ynarri that would be nice, but I can live without it. Was thinking of things like Drazhar leading Ynarri incubi, but it seems counter to the intent. Maybe. Still confused.

I read the rules again.
I see no defition of army or what an army is.
I only see mentioned that an army consists of Detachments that you fill out and that you must adhere to requirements or limitations of that detachment.
The only limitation of most detachments is a shared keyword (faction) which can be Aeldari.
Then you add Aeldari units to your detachments and decide that some are Ynnari (because any unit, except some Coven ones and Drazhar and whatnot, can be).

You've now followed all the rules and limitations and requirements the game puts on you, followed the Ynnari rules and have an army with different Eldar rules (PFP, SFD) in one detachment (and in this case: army)

Please explain where I am wrong?

You seem to be interpreting it, if Im correct, "Im building Ynnari, so the only way to do that is to make Ynnari my Faction Keyword and go from there"
But nowhere doe I see that written in the rules.

Edit: annoying phone autocorrects

 Mayk0l wrote:
I read the rules again.
I see no defition of army or what an army is.
I only see mentioned that an army consists of Detachments that you fill out and that you must adhere to requirements or limitations of that detachment.
The only limitation of most detachments is a shared keyword (faction) which can be Aeldari.
Then you add Aeldari units to your detachments and decide that some are Ynnari (because any unit, except some Coven ones and Drazhar and whatnot, can be).

You've now followed all the rules and limitations and requirements the game puts on you, followed the Ynnari rules and have an army with different Eldar rules (PFP, SFD) in one detachment (and in this case: army)

Please explain where I am wrong?

You seem to be interpreting it, if Im correct, "Im building Ynnari, so the only way to do that is to make Ynnari my Faction Keyword and go from there"
But nowhere doe I see that written in the rules.

Edit: annoying phone autocorrects

I think you're fine granting that you only have one army. So this army that you've got. Is it an Ynnari army?

If it is not, then the Ynnari rules don't allow you to add the Ynnari keyword to any of the Aeldari units you choose to include in it. They only apply to Ynnari armies.

If it is, then every Aeldari unit in it gains the Ynnari keyword. That's explicit.

Which is it?

The rules seem pretty clear if grammatically weird. "...any Aeldari units can be part of an Ynnari army. Any unit that does so gains the Ynnari keyword." At no point are you choosing for individual units if they gain the Ynnari keyword. You are only choosing if they are part of an Ynnari army.

Hmm I see what you mean. That makes a lot of sense too.
I'll wait for the FAQ

If you look at the entries for the other space marine factions, such as Blood Angles, Space Wolves, etc, the wording is similar to the Ynnari except that it says "Chapter" instead of "army."

This could lead us to believe that the difference in wording is on purpose and actually means something, but since there is no clear definition of what an "army" is (other than units that all share a faction keyword), and there also isn't a single word that easily sums up whatever the four Eldar types (such as "Chapter" for Space Marines), I personally think that GW just didn't know what other word to put in that spot, and so said "army.

So, i think you you can choose what units are Ynnari and what are not. Otherwise I think there would have been some kind of disclaimer or explaining paragraph limiting Ynnari as the only "army" that is forced to have all units in it share two keywords (Aeldari and Ynnari).

jcd386 wrote:
If you look at the entries for the other space marine factions, such as Blood Angles, Space Wolves, etc, the wording is similar to the Ynnari except that it says "Chapter" instead of "army."

This could lead us to believe that the difference in wording is on purpose and actually means something, but since there is no clear definition of what an "army" is (other than units that all share a faction keyword), and there also isn't a single word that easily sums up whatever the four Eldar types (such as "Chapter" for Space Marines), I personally think that GW just didn't know what other word to put in that spot, and so said "army.

So, i think you you can choose what units are Ynnari and what are not. Otherwise I think there would have been some kind of disclaimer or explaining paragraph limiting Ynnari as the only "army" that is forced to have all units in it share two keywords (Aeldari and Ynnari).

This is possible. There's also some evidence that different people worked on mostly different factions and didn't coordinate too closely. For example, the Sisters' Acts of Faith rule is doing a lot of the same things that the Ynnari Strength from Death rule is, but is organized differently and some very similar parts are worded differently enough that they play out very differently in-game (e.g. the Sisters can only immediately fight if they are within 1" of an enemy unit, but the Ynnari can fight regardless). And the weird grammar of the Ynnari army selection rule suggests to me that at some point one sentence got changed while another was left the way it was.

On the other hand, it's very easy to write this so that it does what you think it's meant to do. You just drop all the army stuff and say "...any number of Aeldari units can be given the Ynnari keyword. Ynnari units cannot..." That is, while it's plausible that this was a mistake, it's not plausible that someone wrote this after carefully thinking about how to make sure that you could take Ynnari and non-Ynnari units in the same army.

I see nothing wrong with mixing the units in one detachment as they will ALL share the Aeldari faction keyword. below that there is Asuriyani, Druchari, Ynnari, and Harlequins. Note that they won't be able to buff one another though if they don't have more specific keywords. It's just like a force can have a mix of any Imperial units as long as they all have the Imperial keyword.

edit: After another read of the index, the first paragraph really makes it clear that some units cannot be taken in an Ynnari force, even if they match the keyword of Aeldari.

I suspect it was something they had figured they'd cover in more detail when there's a specific Aelari book, but might need to bump up for a FAQ.

Although it is by no means clear in the rules, I'm guessing via FAQ they will clarify that the faction keyword that you choose to build your force is the type of 'army' that you're taking.

So if you're using 'Ynnari' as your faction keyword to build your army, then it is a 'Ynnari army' and therefore cannot include the listed Druchari units, but it means that all the units you do include gain the 'Ynnari' faction keyword and benefit from the 'Strength from Death' special rules.

Alternatively, if you built your army using the 'Aeldari' keyword, then it would be a 'Aeldari' army, and although you could include Ynnari units as part of it (as they have the 'Aeldari' keyword), the only units in the army that would have the 'Ynnari' keyword (and benefit from 'Strength from Death') would be Yvraine, The Visarch & The Yncarne.