Can Pask Order Himself?

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**Trickstick**

Looking into Pask, I was wondering if he can give orders to himself. For context, normal tank commanders cannot give orders to characters. However, with the new Datasheet format, nothing about the Tank Commander's rules really matters.

So the two rules that are at play here are "Tank Orders" and "Knight Commander":

Tank Orders: Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to a friendly Cadian Leman Russ at the start of your Shooting phase. To issue a Tank Order, pick a target Leman Russ within 6" of Knight Commander Pask and choose which order you wish to issue from the table to the right. Each Leman Russ can only be given a single order each turn.

Knight Commander: Knight Commander Pask may use the Tank Orders ability twice in each of your turns. Resolve the effects of the first order before issuing the second order. Note that Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to other Cadian Leman Russ Characters.

Now my thinking about this rule has been that he cannot issue orders to himself, as the Knight Commander rule uses the term other characters. However, Pask actually has no restriction on giving orders to characters anyway. So there is nothing stopping Pask issuing orders to himself. Can anyone agree or disagree with this?

**SuspiciousSucculent**

The language used in the last sentence of the Knight Commander rule seems to be used to draw attention to the fact that he does not have a restriction on giving orders to characters. If it is indeed intended to draw attention to this difference from the regular Tank commanders, then I would not interpret it as placing any additional restrictions. As such, the "other" in the sentence would not restrict him from ordering himself.

RAI may have been to allow him to order other tank commanders and but not himself, but the RAW does not seem to support this intention, imho.

**Trickstick**

I think I agree. However, I also think that if it is RAI to not order himself, it is one of the wooliest RAI I have ever seen (and I am very much a RAI player!). It is just not really indicated. I think that the designers had the Tank Commander's tank order rule in mind, not counting for the changed language in Pask's version.

I would let Pask order himself, but also kick this to the GW FAQ as it is uncertain whether this is intended or not.

**Ghaz**

Take a look at the 'Tank Orders' rule on the Tank Commander datasheet and you'll see why they worded the 'Knight Commander' rule as they did in my opinion.

**Trickstick**

Ghaz wrote:
Take a look at the 'Tank Orders' rule on the Tank Commander datasheet and you'll see why they worded the 'Knight Commander' rule as they did in my opinion.

Yeah I think that they were thinking of that rule too. It is just that the Tank Commander rules have no bearing on what Pask can do. Is it just meant as a reminder because people may be remembering the Tank Commander rule?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only other points that I could poke a hole in this rule are with the Tank Order rule's:

...issue orders to a friendly Cadian Leman Russ...

Can you count yourself as a friendly model? I would think that all of your units are friendly.

...pick a target Leman Russ within 6"...

I'm sure I read somewhere that models always count themselves as within a distance. Is that right?

**Ghaz**

Trickstick wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Take a look at the 'Tank Orders' rule on the Tank Commander datasheet and you'll see why they worded the 'Knight Commander' rule as they did in my opinion.

Yeah I think that they were thinking of that rule too. It is just that the Tank Commander rules have no bearing on what Pask can do. Is it just meant as a reminder because people may be remembering the Tank Commander rule?

Where is the first place someone is going to look to see if Pask can use the 'Tank Orders' rule on Leman Russ Characters without the 'Knight Commander' rule clearly stating that he can? The identically named 'Tank Orders' rule in the Tank Commander datasheet. Its mentioned in the 'Knight Commander' rule to prevent any confusion that Pask's 'Tank Orders' rule does apply to Leman Russ Characters and Pask is a Leman Russ Character per his keywords.

**dan2026**

Yes he can.

Look under 'aura abilities' in the rulebook.

**Tsol**

dan2026 wrote:
Yes he can.

Look under 'aura abilities' in the rulebook.

This. I don't know why, but people all over 4chan and facebook keep saying he cannot order himself, but it clearly says he can in his datasheet. I think people are mixing up Pask with the Tank Commander, who explicitly is stated cannot order units with the keyword character (which he himself has thus cannot benefit from), which Pask does not.

**vipoid**

Tsol wrote:
dan2026 wrote:
Yes he can.

Look under 'aura abilities' in the rulebook.

This. I don't know why, but people all over 4chan and facebook keep saying he cannot order himself, but it clearly says he can in his datasheet. I think people are mixing up Pask with the Tank Commander, who explicitly is stated cannot order units with the keyword character (which he himself has thus cannot benefit from), which Pask does not.

Because of this:

"Note that Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to other Cadian Leman Russ Characters."

Emphasis mine.

Taken at face value, the implication is that Pask can issue orders to other Leman Russ Characters but not to himself. (Otherwise, there would be no need for them to say 'other'.)

**AutocannonSidearm**

Taken at face value, the implication is that Pask can issue orders to other Leman Russ Characters, unlike the Tank Orders ability of Tank Commanders. (Otherwise, there would be no need for them to say 'characters' or 'other'.)

**U02dah4**

vipoid wrote:
Tsol wrote:
dan2026 wrote:
Yes he can.

Look under 'aura abilities' in the rulebook.

This. I don't know why, but people all over 4chan and facebook keep saying he cannot order himself, but it clearly says he can in his datasheet. I think people are mixing up Pask with the Tank Commander, who explicitly is stated cannot order units with the keyword character (which he himself has thus cannot benefit from), which Pask does not.

Because of this:

"Note that Knight Commander Pask can issue orders to other Cadian Leman Russ Characters."

Emphasis mine.

Taken at face value, the implication is that Pask can issue orders to other Leman Russ Characters but not to himself. (Otherwise, there would be no need for them to say 'other'.)

Giving you permission to do something is not denying you permission to do something else. Pasks relationship to other characters has no impact on his ability to target himself. Look at this way a Mortar can target units not visible to the bearer that doesn't mean the Mortar can't target units in line of sight.

In addition the ability on other data sheets such as tank commander have no impact on what Pask can do

Pask may target a friendly Cadian lemon Russ within 6" so the relavent questions are is Pask a friendly- yes cadian - yes lemon Russ -yes and is he within 6" of himself - yes then he meets his targeting conditions

**vipoid**

U02dah4 wrote:
Giving you permission to do something is not denying you permission to do something else.

Sure. Except that this doesn't give you permission either way. It reads more like a clarification or reminded.

U02dah4 wrote:
Pasks relationship to other characters has no impact on his ability to target himself.

So then why use the word "other"? Why not just say "Pask can issue orders to Leman Russ Characters."

Literally the only reason you would use the word 'other' is if Pask could issue Orders to other Leman Russ characters but not to himself.

U02dah4 wrote:
Look at this way a Mortar can target units not visible to the bearer that doesn't mean the Mortar can't target units in line of sight.

False equivalence. The wording isn't even remotely comparable.

U02dah4 wrote:

In addition the ability on other data sheets such as tank commander have no impact on what Pask can do

I never stated otherwise. I have only ever stated what is on Pask's data sheet.

U02dah4 wrote:
Pask may target a friendly Cadian lemon Russ within 6" so the relavent questions are is Pask a friendly- yes cadian - yes lemon Russ -yes and is he within 6" of himself - yes then he meets his targeting conditions

That is what makes the note all the more bizarre - if what you're saying is true then it is completely unnecessary. Especially since data sheets are supposed to be self-contained outside of Wargear and certain army-specific rules (i.e. there is no need to refer to the Tank Commander data sheet for anything relating to Pask's date sheet, so there should be no need for that note).

And, again, this doesn't explain why the note uses the word 'other'.

To be clear, you could well be right about this. I'm just saying that it isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be.

**U02dah4**

The other is extraneous. As to why it is irrelevant to the RAW and entirely subjectI've unless you ask GW designers and the real answer will be they need to learn technical writting

**Loopstah**

The other to me implies that Pask can order himself and other character tanks, as in he can order himself and others that are also characters.

**vipoid**

U02dah4 wrote:
The other is extraneous.

Well, not just the other. If you're correct then the note itself is redundant.

U02dah4 wrote:
As to why it is irrelevant to the RAW

Perhaps, but it creates a clear RAI implication that Pask isn't supposed to be able to order himself.

U02dah4 wrote:
and the real answer will be they need to learn technical writting

On that we agree entirely.

Loopstah wrote:
The other to me implies that Pask can order himself and other character tanks, as in he can order himself and others that are also characters.

That makes no sense. Grammatically, the 'other' can only indicate the exact opposite of what you're saying.

(Of course, whether this is intentional is another matter entirely.)

**Loopstah**

vipoid wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
The other to me implies that Pask can order himself and other character tanks, as in he can order himself and others that are also characters.

That makes no sense. Grammatically, the 'other' can only indicate the exact opposite of what you're saying.

The 'other' implies a missing "and not only himself" at the end of the sentence.

**vipoid**

Loopstah wrote:
The 'other' implies a missing "and not only himself" at the end of the sentence.

Perhaps, but we can't make assumptions based on what could be added to the end of a sentence.

In any case, whilst that would make grammatical sense, it would still be redundant (since Pask's text does not otherwise appear to exclude characters), and would also not make sense as a comparison with Tank Commanders (as they cannot issue orders to themselves - so if Pask can, you would expect that to be clarified as well - not just his ability to order other characters).

I really don't know. It's a weird situation wherein the reminder text doesn't fit with the RAW of the rule it's supposed to be clarifying.

I'd say that RAW Pask can issue orders to himself, but the note suggests that RAI he's not supposed to be able to. However, that's assuming that the note is correct and that it isn't, as you suggest, a misprint (or just another GW writer who doesn't understand grammar).

I'd probably play it that he can issue orders to himself until GW clarifies the point one way or the other.

**Idolator**

This may seen odd. But...

Why wouldn't a tank commander be able to issue orders to the crew of the tank that he is in?

**vipoid**

Idolator wrote:
This may seen odd. But...

Why wouldn't a tank commander be able to issue orders to the crew of the tank that he is in?

I think you're asking the wrong people.