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Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds




Houston,Tx

Greetings,
I recently purchased a Deathwatch lot to get back into 40k, and now waiting to purchase the Rulebook and index imperium 1. But for those who have been blessed seeing the leaked rules how are Deathwatch looking? Already have seen I may be swapping the IHB with other loadoits since I have 5.

Currently own:
Watch master
Artemis x2
Killteam Cassius
20 veterans
15 vanguard
2 Dreads
Corvus
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

I'm no expert on the Deathwatch, but I have considered starting a small force of them (I already have KT Cassius) myself to ally with my Dark Angels. That said, to me they are not looking too good in 8th. They are expensive as can be and yet just as squishy as regular marines. They do hit very hard though, especially with Frag Cannons.

Frag Cannons look like they are still good, but they did get a price bump and no longer ignore cover with the frag rounds. Infernus Bolters benefit from the combi-weapon changes, so they can fire both guns, although the HB portion will get -2 to hit if you move and fire both guns. GW had a chance to make Stalker bolters really shine and make them a good anti-character weapon, but sadly they don't get any real benefits other than increased range over standard bolters. It also looks like DW can finally take Bolt Pistols, which they oddly couldn't before. The Blackstar might be okay in this edition, but it is expensive. Still a very cool model! DW did lose the ability to run single Vanguard Vets, Termies, and Bikes, but they can now be taken singly as part of a Killteam troops choice (along with 5 regular veterans).

As for KT Cassius, some of the models got better as far as usefulness, and some got much, much worse. Gydrael (the Dark Angel) now has a viable loadout with the reduction in cost of power weapons and plasma pistols. Redblade (Space Wolf) and Donatus (Smurf) are both stock, so cheaper than before since veterans only cost 19 instead of 22. Grytt (Imperial Fist) is about the same as before, and he's probably the favorite since he has the Frag Cannon. Sorrlock (Iron Hand) is a bit more expensive but arguably better with the changes to combi-weapons. Cassius (Chaplain) and Natorian (Libby) are about the same, except that libbys are kinda meh IMO with the changes to the psychic phase. Suberei (White Scar Biker) is quite good, but unless taken as part of a Kill Team cannot be run on his own anymore. Ditto with the two Jump guys. Branatar (Termie) is the real loser, as with all his weapons (Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Power Fist) to run him WYSIWYG he costs 86 points. Yeowch!

I was thinking of maybe running 4 Frag Cannons in a drop pod or something myself, but even without any upgrades on the sarge that combo costs over 300 points! Plus, with the 9" restriction you can't even use the frag rounds after dropping, so dropping them next to a big blob is out. They could potentially bust open a light vehicle in one turn of shooting, but they just don't do enough damage to accomplish much more than that. Another idea I had would be to drop pod in a melee-oriented squad, such as some storm shields and power weapons and heavy thunder hammers. They could then attempt to charge something, using a command reroll if necessary. It wouldn't work all the time, but when it does they could do some damage. All of the transport options are probably viable now since they can be charged out of. Blackstars may be the best transport option, though, since they have a good combination of cost, firepower, and durability. Razorbacks are cheaper though, and they can still have decent firepower.

My 2 cents on Deathwatch- take with a grain of salt as I did say I'm no expert on how to run them.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 6/7/18, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~11200 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~1100 | Space Wolves: ~2000
Inquisition: ~300 | Officio Assassinorum: ~500 | Imperial Knights: ~800 | Talons of the Emperor: ~500
Tau Empire: ~6300 | Chaos Space Marines (various legions): ~8400 | Death Guard: ~2700 | Chaos Daemons (all types): ~2400
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Stormsurge blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2017: 65 | Total models painted in 2018: 122 | Current main painting project: Space Wolves characters
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds




Houston,Tx

Ugh, really doesn't look good and seem to be expensive no matter how I equip them.
My only hope is the come out with there own Codex like the battletomes for AOS which made some armies shine. But don't know how long I can hold out.:(

What would be some viable weapon loadouts? Should I go min/max or go 10 man. And having to flip threw everything for points and what can take what makes my head hurt. (At least on leaked pages)
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Zergsmasher: Sadly, I don't think DW can take Drop Pods anymore. Didn't see them on the list.

So we're stuck with Corvus's.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Drop pods are still there, but why use them? For the "firepower" they bring? Else Deathwatch Teleport Homer can be taken for Kill Teams, Terminators, and Bikers. Characters are left behind unless in Corvus or take Termie armour.

BTW, a fluffy list for about 1500 points can be done with the following:

2 Inquisitors (60-80 points each)
2- 6 Acoloytes (8-20 points each)
3 - Kill Team (19-49 points each)
2 Culexus (85 ea)
2 Corvus (240-280 ea)

Plenty of room for a Watch Master, and still have room for a Knight if you swap out Watch Master for Inquisitors. Deploy HQ and Acolytes along with a Kill Team in each Corvus, Last Kill Team and the Assassins can DS in... If you know you won't be facing any Psykers, then swap Culexus for any of the other Assassins, minor points tweaks may be needed on your other loadouts though...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Pedroig wrote:
Drop pods are still there, but why use them? For the "firepower" they bring? Else Deathwatch Teleport Homer can be taken for Kill Teams, Terminators, and Bikers. Characters are left behind unless in Corvus or take Termie armour.

BTW, a fluffy list for about 1500 points can be done with the following:

2 Inquisitors (60-80 points each)
2- 6 Acoloytes (8-20 points each)
3 - Kill Team (19-49 points each)
2 Culexus (85 ea)
2 Corvus (240-280 ea)

Plenty of room for a Watch Master, and still have room for a Knight if you swap out Watch Master for Inquisitors. Deploy HQ and Acolytes along with a Kill Team in each Corvus, Last Kill Team and the Assassins can DS in... If you know you won't be facing any Psykers, then swap Culexus for any of the other Assassins, minor points tweaks may be needed on your other loadouts though...


EDIT: Found the Drop Pod, you're right!

Also, Teleport Homers were changed to just do a recall ability rather than let them actually deep strike. Are you saying if I add 1 Terminator to a Kill Team the whole team gets Teleport Strike?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 02:08:48


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334428-8th-edition-dw-tactica/

Here is a DW tactics that I have been working on and slowly updating as thoughts come to me if you want to check it out.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

My Deathwatch army project thread  
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





The Eternity Gate

Don't play dark angels but on the receiving end of DW knights plus terminator chaplain plus ancient plus Libby. Not fun with all the auras and buffs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 02:01:48


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Made in au
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Loving the new force org charts - if you're going to play Deathwatch you gotta learn how to abuse both the FOC and the fact a lot of DW units start at one model.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Leth wrote:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334428-8th-edition-dw-tactica/

Here is a DW tactics that I have been working on and slowly updating as thoughts come to me if you want to check it out.


Good read!

Minor correction, weapons are not always priced the same, some things like Thunder Hammers are easy, for units they are 20, but for Characters they are 25 (maybe inverted). But other things are a tad screwy, Force weapons carry different costs depending on whom is wielding them.

Minor math concern: Why is the number increasing in the weapon cost chart? A -1 is pretty much always a 16.7% difference in effect, though I can see how one can argue that for those weapons which "proc" on a 6, it means more. But why would the difference between a 3+ vs a 2+ be any different than a 5+ v a 4+, the effects are not additive, they start at completely different points, only the relative effectiveness should matter.

Minor chart concerns: Str should go to 16 on the Wound chart... On your Power Weapon Chart, what are you trying to show? The + to Str makes a larger difference than the - to Saves. For modifiers for attack one should almost always prioritize Number of Attacks, Modifiers to Hit (these two can be normalized pretty easily to come to a single number), then SvT, then AP. Damage is the least important to consider, it only matters against multiwound targets to begin with, and you have to GET to that roll in the first place...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Pedroig wrote:
 Leth wrote:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334428-8th-edition-dw-tactica/

Here is a DW tactics that I have been working on and slowly updating as thoughts come to me if you want to check it out.


Good read!

Minor correction, weapons are not always priced the same, some things like Thunder Hammers are easy, for units they are 20, but for Characters they are 25 (maybe inverted). But other things are a tad screwy, Force weapons carry different costs depending on whom is wielding them.

Minor math concern: Why is the number increasing in the weapon cost chart? A -1 is pretty much always a 16.7% difference in effect, though I can see how one can argue that for those weapons which "proc" on a 6, it means more. But why would the difference between a 3+ vs a 2+ be any different than a 5+ v a 4+, the effects are not additive, they start at completely different points, only the relative effectiveness should matter.

Minor chart concerns: Str should go to 16 on the Wound chart... On your Power Weapon Chart, what are you trying to show? The + to Str makes a larger difference than the - to Saves. For modifiers for attack one should almost always prioritize Number of Attacks, Modifiers to Hit (these two can be normalized pretty easily to come to a single number), then SvT, then AP. Damage is the least important to consider, it only matters against multiwound targets to begin with, and you have to GET to that roll in the first place...


Yep, that is why I said that melee is a different animal I think.

It may be a 16.7 percent change. HOWEVER the actual effect changes based on the numbers. So for example going from a 5+ to hit to a 6+ to hit is only a 16.7% chance change, it is in effect 1/2 as effective as it now takes twice as many shots to do the same amount of damage.

Example: I fire 6 shots.

2+ is 5 hits
3+ is 4 hits
4+ is 3 hits
5+ is 2 hits
6+ is 1 hit

A 2+ is 500% as effective as a 6+, a 5+ is 200% as effective as a 6+. A 3+ is 80% as effective as a 2+ etc You see what I mean? That percentage is basically saying how much more you would have to spend to get the same results.

Where does it need to go up to 16 that it doesnt? The one chart goes up to 16 and the other just says how the two stats compare to each other.

The Power weapon was just there to show how 1 atk from each weapon compared to 1 atk from any of the other weapons. You can then multiply it based on any of the other charts to get the actual result. Its just a shortcut for the power weapons specifically since that is something people are always comparing.

Appreciate the feedback though!

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

My Deathwatch army project thread  
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




On hits, gotcha..

On Str, B&C and me don't get along, photos won't enlarge, can't register, admin don't respond to emails... If it is there, my apologies, these old eyes on that small pic looked like it only went to 10...

Power weapons: Staff is a power weapon? Let's run through math with Axe, Maul, Fist, and Sword:
Axe, Maul, Sword will all hit .67 times, Fist .5
Vs T4: Sword wounds .5, Axe and Maul .67, Fist .84
Vs 3+: Damage taken is Maul .5, Axe .67, Fist and Sword .84
So 1 die ends up with the following :
Axe .30 so .3 damage
Fist: .35 so .7 damage
Maul: .22 so .22 damage
Sword: .28 so .28 damage

Going to a T6, 4+ save (Rhino)
Hit is same, Wound becomes Axe and Sword .33, Maul .5, Fist .67, save is Axe .84, Maul .5, Fist and Sword 1
So 1 die ends up with the following:
Axe: .19 so .19 damage
Fist: .34 so .68 damage
Maul: .17 so .17 damage
Sword: .22 so .22 damage

When we look at point cost, on Marines the Maul is never worth it's cost. The Sword at 4 and the Axe at 5 is a toss up in my book, and the Fist, not worth the 4-5x in price for being 2-3x as effective on damage.

On Guardsmen, the Maul is the most efficient choice, since it grants Str 5, but yet it is still the same 4 points... The fist becomes way over priced on them though since that only gets them to Str 6...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Deathwatch in my opinion are gonna be nasty compared to what they were in 7th. Sadly I'll be retiring the frag cannon since in my opinion is not worth 30 points compared to a cheaper combi-weapon. I will be building my deathwatch as an assault variant with most units having atleast 2 attacks base is a big deal in this edition. Also for only 13 points two lightning claws are absolutely beast for black shields and watch sergeants with 4 attacks rerolling all wound rolls. Watch Masters for 130 points are an absolute steal and you'll need at least 2 for 2k points. I'll be running 3 blackstars in my list due to how cheap they are compared to other flyers and strong as well. Also Deathwatch armies overall have reduced in price. I mean they're still expensive, but now are worth every penny with new kill teams being death stars basically. All and all looking at them straight up people will complain, but once you play a couple games with them you will realize that they play different from 7th, more effective from 7th, and hell of a lot more dangerous then 7th.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




So you are looking to offload some frag cannons you say.

I like them still, even for 30 points:

vs MEQ: 7 Hits on average, 4.67 wounds, 2.33 3+ saves (-1 AP), so 2.33 damage. For 30 points, same as a PC, with better performance in range, even if supercharged.

Lightning Claws def. have their place, as do TH, but I'd take the HTH for 5 more points in a heartbeat...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

I have no issues with the cost on the frag cannon. The only issue is the range IMO, other than that it's spectacular. The point cost makes it tough to spam, but not impossible. It's a great overwatch weapon too, especially if you're within range of Artemis.

The downside of DW is that the cost of the special ammo is built into their base cost, which is sunk cost if you upgrade the shooting weapon. I think if you want to get serious about winning games with DW you need to be willing to either run more un-upgraded dudes to get some model count, or, even better, play a mixed army. Mixing in some guard and Inquisition will help in a bunch of ways related to model count and bubble wrap for the pricey DW guys. I think uber-upgraded DW-only lists will get stomped by a lot of armies due to low model count.

Also, it's useful to know what's efficient and not from the list of allowed Marine stuff. The fact that DW have access to Razorbacks is good (better than Predators anyway). Not like there's anything stopping you from taking whatever Imperium stuff you want of course, but it matters for buff stacking, especially if you're taking DW RBs.

One Corvus (max IMO) with some Twin-AC Razorbacks and a couple of kill teams with a restrained amount of upgrading is probably where I'd start. Probably at least a min squad of Bikes too, the Telly Homer shenanigans look good, and the special ammo is pretty killer with twin bolters. I'd look hard at adding a termie or two to each kill team too, no so much specifically because of the homer, but more because I can arm three of those fools with Assault Cannons, which sounds fun. A guy with AC and Power Sword is only 6 points more than a DW marine with Frag Cannon. so they're pretty interchangeable. Actually, in general, the ability to put 3 heavies into a 5 man squad of Terminators is excellent and should be abused at every turn.

My main beef with the list? That Storm Shields are mono-cost for the DW and they always pay the character amount of 15pts for them, rather than the 5pts every other 1W marine pays for the same item. Yeesh.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in us
Armored Iron Breaker





Dallas, TX

So I am guessing people would be taking the razorbacks as transports even though the unit will never ride inside correct? I like the idea of putting a termie and a biker in each kill team but then you are restricted to having them walk the board which just inherently makes me nervous, idk why.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/19 18:32:02


"It's like the 12 days of Christmas...except its the 12 days of Death" Ian Christe
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Personally I think taking less that 2 Corvus in a 1500+ point game is really nerfing yourself.

First you can move combi-squads in them easily. However, I prefer to make more "specialized" squads and then pair them so Something like a "all" Shotgun or Frag Launcher" with a single Vanguard Vet which gets deployed in front of a regular 5 man vet with more ranged shooty and a Watch Commander type, meanwhile the second one drops off your CC unit which includes a Bike.

Meanwhile, those Corvus dropping bombs, and laying down AC, Hurricanes, etc. are thinning out the herd...

Sure back them up with a couple of Razorbacks and a HW squad for AV support, or even an Imperial Knight...

Course I also like the idea of mixing in some Xeno Inquisition folks...

si vis pacem, para bellum 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

 Rezyn wrote:
So I am guessing people would be taking the razorbacks as transports even though the unit will never ride inside correct? I like the idea of putting a termie and a biker in each kill team but then you are restricted to having them walk the board which just inherently makes me nervous, idk why.
Yup, never going to ride in 'em. Whee! If you stick to just Termies you can still use the Land Raider, although I don't see myself taking one often given the cost of the basic DW dudes (which mitigates for cheaper support). I'm thinking some bubble wrap might be in order.

I also think there's some room to covert some other marines into DW just to add flavor. I thought Grey Knight Strike Squads with Gate of Infinity, or Interceptor Squads could be fun. Obviously they'd still be <Grey Knights> but it would add some key mobility and Strike Squad is the same base cost as DW anyway.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in us
Armored Iron Breaker





Dallas, TX

Deathwatch tactics seem super light compared to others, not sure if that's ominous to the potential of the units or not. Anyone playtested anything yet and have something to report? I have a game this Friday and I am doing DW/Inquisition. Only 350 points of Inquisition so its mainly DW. Super excited to play and am facing nids, which seem super awesome this go around. I think he will be outnumbering me significantly, which is status quo for marines and especially DW.

Any good tactical input welcome!

"It's like the 12 days of Christmas...except its the 12 days of Death" Ian Christe
 
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





Sooo, am I reading this right? We can't take the bolter/power sword combo that every marine with a bolter is forced to take because of the way the kit is made?

And we can't take a combi-/melee sergeant?
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Rihgu wrote:
Sooo, am I reading this right? We can't take the bolter/power sword combo that every marine with a bolter is forced to take because of the way the kit is made?

And we can't take a combi-/melee sergeant?


Not sure where your getting that info from. Any deathwatch vet may replace his bolter for 2 items from the deathwatch list. So you can take a single 2 handed weapon (bolter) then buy a power weapon as well. Same for the sergeant.
   
Made in au
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





How do the stacking keywords work in the Deathwatch Killteams?

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
How do the stacking keywords work in the Deathwatch Killteams?
For the most part, they all add together. This leads to a unit with a Vanguard Veteran and a Biker having Hit and Run. It is pretty awesome. Basically means you should almost always put both in a unit, especially if there is a good combination of both shooting and melee in the unit.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
PanOceaniac Hacking Specialist Sergeant





Gumbalina wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
Sooo, am I reading this right? We can't take the bolter/power sword combo that every marine with a bolter is forced to take because of the way the kit is made?

And we can't take a combi-/melee sergeant?


Not sure where your getting that info from. Any deathwatch vet may replace his bolter for 2 items from the deathwatch list. So you can take a single 2 handed weapon (bolter) then buy a power weapon as well. Same for the sergeant.


Oh, right, that makes sense. I was reading it as you can either take 2 items from the top list and 1 item from the bottom list (essentially, a combi-weapon would count as 2 picks from the list). But on re-reading it it seems that the way you explained it is the correct way.
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Death Watch 2k 8th

7 CP

-Batallion Detachment

Watch Master 130

Watch Master 130

(8 man) Deathwatch Kill Team 386
3x Terminator
-Assault Cannon, Power Sword
1x Black Shield
4x Deathwatch Marine
-Frag Cannon

(8 man) Deathwatch Kill Team 386
3x Terminator
-Assault Cannon, Power Sword
1x Black Shield
4x Deathwatch Marine
-Frag Cannon

(5 man) Deathwatch Kill Team 184
1x Blackshield
-Meltagun, Power Sword
1x Watch Sergeant
-Meltagun
3x Deathwatch Marine
-Meltagun


-Air Wing Detachment
Corvus Blackstar 261
Auspex Array
Blackstar Cluster Launcher
Hurricane Bolter
2x Stormstrike Missile Launcher
Twin Lascannon

Corvus Blackstar 261
Auspex Array
Blackstar Cluster Launcher
Hurricane Bolter
2x Stormstrike Missile Launcher
Twin Lascannon

Corvus Blackstar 261
Auspex Array
Blackstar Cluster Launcher
Hurricane Bolter
2x Stormstrike Missile Launcher
Twin Lascannon



What do you guys think of this? I've been building lists for getting back into 8th and Deathwatch seem to be the only thing exciting me.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

Putting three ACs into the Kill Teams has been what I've been working with in lists recently. I like. You'll have the same issues most 20-odd model count armies have, but it's cool.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




 Fenris-77 wrote:
Putting three ACs into the Kill Teams has been what I've been working with in lists recently. I like. You'll have the same issues most 20-odd model count armies have, but it's cool.


I'd like to see the kind of lists you're working on. I feel like Deathwatch has the best troops (For marines), a very good/cheap HQ and naturally gets the Batallion detachment easily. I'm curious what other people think of Corvus spam/Frag Cannon spam. I also want to see if anyone has a good argument for taking a unit other than the Kill Team considering how flexible it is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 03:33:39


 
   
Made in au
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





And a Kill Team with a Black Shield has Counter-Charge.
I get it now, to make up for being stupidly expensive Deathwatch with the right mix in a Kill Team in the right situation is stupidly flexible.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




*Current meatspace coordinates redacted*

HD300 wrote:
 Fenris-77 wrote:
Putting three ACs into the Kill Teams has been what I've been working with in lists recently. I like. You'll have the same issues most 20-odd model count armies have, but it's cool.


I'd like to see the kind of lists you're working on. I feel like Deathwatch has the best troops (For marines), a very good/cheap HQ and naturally gets the Batallion detachment easily. I'm curious what other people think of Corvus spam/Frag Cannon spam. I also want to see if anyone has a good argument for taking a unit other than the Kill Team considering how flexible it is.

I've been noodling around with some mixed lists lately, mixing DW and Grey Knights mostly, with guard stuck in sometimes. I actually quite like the mix of DW and GK for the deployment options that come with the GK units when set next to the flexibility of the DW. One of the DW units in your list above, plus the Corvus to carry them, is about 600 points. For the same 600 points you can field 6 x 5 man Grey Knight Strike squads with a Psilencer each. Still super elite feeling, still lots of deployment flexibility, but also lots more model count, lots of psychic defense, and a whole lot more dakka (that's 130+ shots w/in 12"). I was thinking about a DYI chapter that combined elements of DW and GK so it doesn't seem so piecemeal. I'm not opposed to mono-DW by any means, but I've been thinking about ways to branch out. Types of lists I've been looking at:

1. Essentially your list from above.
2. A version of that with one less Corvus and dudes replaced by Grey Knights
3. A version with one Corvus and dudes, some GKs (not 30), two smaller Kill Teams with Razor backs, and some guard bubble wrap and Scions.
4. Other units in play - Bikers mostly, I really like the special ammo combines with twin boltguns and cheap power weapons, also Librarians, because they can also buff the GK dudes

I'm playing with a lot of different ideas obviously.

He knows that I know and you know that he actually doesn't know the rules at all. 
   
Made in au
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Seems to me Deathwatch have their biggest struggle against vehicle heavy armies.
Gave a Necron army an absolute paddling last night, now that I know how to make Kill Teams properly (thanks to advice from casvalremdelkum) the hardest part was deciding between Hellfire and Vengeance rounds to use against Warriors - I can only imagine how bad the beating would be against a Tyrannid, Tau or Eldar army.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go. 
   
 
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