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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Have I missed something, or is there literally no advantage to taking a squad of ten marines and combat squadding them, over taking two squads of five? The latter option gives you a bonus sergeant, and fills twice as many slots on your Force Org chart, making it easier to accrue command points. At least previously there was the advantage of being able to pop combat squads in the same transport, but that's not an issue in 8th. Seems a shame to actively encourage players to ignore the fluff when it comes to full-strength squads.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





It saves you the trouble of having to paint more red helmets if you were playing before 8th.

More practically?

You're focusing on the battalion and brigade FOC.

The other FOCs require a smaller number of troops.

If you only want to field 1 HQ and, say, 3 elites, and you REALLY want those extra 5 man squads, combat squads isn't necessarily a bad rule.

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Traditio wrote:
If you only want to field 1 HQ and, say, 3 elites, and you REALLY want those extra 5 man squads, combat squads isn't necessarily a bad rule.



The elite detachment? It still had 2+ troop choice possible so you would want to take 2x5 squads over 1x10 and split it.

Hard to think situation where you would want 10 strong squad over 2x5. Only if you have all but 1 troop slot used and can't afford(or can't in matched play) take another detachment.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tactical flexibility and bigger footprint?
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





zerosignal wrote:
Tactical flexibility and bigger footprint?


That's not combat squad then. If you are 10 strong squad you aren't in combat squad. If you combat squad you would be better off with 2x5 and free veteran sergeant + access to more veteran gear. And you can have 2xspecial or 2xheavy depending on what you want.

Okay so you have the slight flexibility in being able to choose during deployment which way to go but how often you really do that? Worth it to throw off free bonuses in every game?

And foot print...2x5 offers same as 1x10. With more flexibility over 1x10

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 09:52:57


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






With character auras being so small radius the only way to make the most use of them is to build bigger units. Bring a 10 man unit. Don't combat squad it. Maximize your force multipliers.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Lance845 wrote:
With character auras being so small radius the only way to make the most use of them is to build bigger units. Bring a 10 man unit. Don't combat squad it. Maximize your force multipliers.


That only matters with congo lines or if you put something weird like 40 marines in one area.

XXXXX C XXXXX
YYYYY YYYYY

X and Y being combat squads of one squad. 4 units easily within range of buffer.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

I take two 10 man Sternguard Squads. They combat squad so they can go off and do separate things. This way I don't run out of Elites slots. Now that I am looking at taking two Vanguard Detachments instead of a Battalion, this is less of a problem though.

5250 pts
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I can see the advantage with Sternguard – there's still a chance of Elite slots being at a premium. I'm pretty hyped for 8th but Troops getting merked to the benefit of everything else is really rubbing me up the wrong way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It'd be nice if there was more of an incentive to take "proper" Space marine squads. Much like Orks get bonus attacks for being a huge mob, let Codex-adherent squads have some sort of bonus. It'd be nice to occasionally see a proper 10-man Devastator squad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 12:34:22


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





College Park, MD

If you take a 10 man squad you *can* deploy it all in one go, which might help you snag first turn. It's probably not going to happen in many games, but it can help. It also gives you an advantage in kill point missions, since you can reduce the number of units available for your opponent to kill. It's no free Rhinos, but it's useful.

Suppose you took a Captain and two 10-man Tactical Squads and your opponent has a Warboss and two units of Boyz. If your opponent deploys first, he's going to go first so... maybe you just combat squad everything and say screw it. But if you deploy first, you can finish first and then get first turn. If you had instead taken 4 5-man Tactical Squads, you'd have second turn regardless.

 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





I can see a few benefits.

Deployment Flexibility - As was mentioned sometimes you might want first turn and can diminish your drops (assuming not taking transports) Same with for kill point missions.

You can overload a squad with special/heavy weapons, maybe you want a chump squad to sit on an objective, while having your Heavy, Special and Sarge run forward in a Razorback.

Better for elite squads - if you have some slots that are limited you can take more 5 man squads.

It is still better to have than not have, it just isn't as important as it was. Though that has been true for a long time, it is an ability that has been diminishing in importance since 5th.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




More meatshields per special weapon? Sorta?

Basically, your heavy/special weapon and sarge have 7 bodies before they are in danger, in separate squads each would be in danger after 3-4 casualties.

It's an edge case, but given heavy+special in a single squad works better this edition it's worth mentioning.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The obvious advantage is for missions where every unit kill is a VP. Lots of MSU armies will struggle with that.
   
Made in de
Infiltrating Prowler






 Lance845 wrote:
With character auras being so small radius the only way to make the most use of them is to build bigger units. Bring a 10 man unit. Don't combat squad it. Maximize your force multipliers.


This is honestly the best response in this thread.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Iv though about this once.

the only real benefit to combat squading is getting locked into combat or having extra combat choices after first charge, popping a vehicle with one and shooting the creamy center with another, holding two objectives. otherwise you can choose not to do it and benefit more from auras.

but by combat squading instead of just making two units you lose out on list benefits and an extra DT.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 16:08:32


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






Combat squads also take one troop slot instead of two.

 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Luciferian wrote:
Combat squads also take one troop slot instead of two.

Thats true i keep forgeting its not only tacticals that have it.

slot allocation isn't as big a deal for tacticals though

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Luciferian wrote:
Combat squads also take one troop slot instead of two.


Since slots aren\t generally issue that's more like disadvantage. You need to spend more points to get the 2-3 detachments for max CP's.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






tneva82 wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Combat squads also take one troop slot instead of two.


Since slots aren\t generally issue that's more like disadvantage. You need to spend more points to get the 2-3 detachments for max CP's.


At best its only really going to matter for like a Elite or Heavy squad that you want to cram as much special heavy weapons in as possible.

otherwise you get stuck needing to buy a bunch of extra troops and HQ to bump up into the next tier. otherwise build off the other foc that only gives you 1 CP.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

If your opponent has 6 vindicators it's not a bad idea.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Marmatag wrote:
If your opponent has 6 vindicators it's not a bad idea.


Vindi gets the D6 at 5+ models so no difference.

i get the point though i think there are some weapons that do 2d6 against 10 or more model things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/13 16:56:13


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Desubot wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
If your opponent has 6 vindicators it's not a bad idea.


Vindi gets the D6 at 5+ models so no difference.

i get the point though i think there are some weapons that do 2d6 against 10 or more model things.



Oh i thought it was 10.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Zewrath wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
With character auras being so small radius the only way to make the most use of them is to build bigger units. Bring a 10 man unit. Don't combat squad it. Maximize your force multipliers.


This is honestly the best response in this thread.


That still doesn't answer the question.

You can take two 5-man squads and fit them in the same area as one 10-man squad.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

amhoward wrote:
 Zewrath wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
With character auras being so small radius the only way to make the most use of them is to build bigger units. Bring a 10 man unit. Don't combat squad it. Maximize your force multipliers.


This is honestly the best response in this thread.


That still doesn't answer the question.

You can take two 5-man squads and fit them in the same area as one 10-man squad.


Only 1 model of the 10 man squad needs to be within x" of the IC.

If you combat squad, 2 models have to be within x", and overall you're spaced out less.

This is the point.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





I had another thought about combat squads. I believe you could do the following.

Take a drop pod

Take two 10 man Tac squads say with Plasma gun, combi-plasma, grav cannon.

Split those 2 squads into combat squads putting the special weapons all in one half of the squad. Then put those 2 squads in the drop pod.

not saying this is the best thing ever just a possible use.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Desubot wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Combat squads also take one troop slot instead of two.


Since slots aren\t generally issue that's more like disadvantage. You need to spend more points to get the 2-3 detachments for max CP's.


At best its only really going to matter for like a Elite or Heavy squad that you want to cram as much special heavy weapons in as possible.

otherwise you get stuck needing to buy a bunch of extra troops and HQ to bump up into the next tier. otherwise build off the other foc that only gives you 1 CP.



If you were going to bring 10 tacs anyway it's jtst 5 tactical or scout for 2cp(2 rerolls). Not bad deal.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
 
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