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Does the fluff now allow this?

Technically? But they would all have to be Primaris, and recruit from the Fenris system, which lost a vast amount of it's population due to the Wrath of Magnus, so even the actual Space Wolves themselves would be struggling to replenish their men.

So, the population would be in a massive demand, and can only be recruited from one source.
At that point, you need to ask: why bother making a new Chapter when you can just be part of the Space Wolves?

Does a successor chapter really recruit from their parent chapters world ? Or is this a puppy specific thing?

the SW fluff does not allow a successor chapter of any kind as long as it uses the geneseed of Russ.

this is a SW specific thing, while their specific mutations make them immune to chaos mutation of any kind, the need to spend time on Fenris to prevent from becoming mad.

this is the reason why always 1 grand company is stationed on Fenris, not only to resupply and to guard the Fang, but because they need to return and stay.

So a Primaris successor chapter is possible, but if they are true Space Wolves, they would need to be from, stationed on and return to Fenris, making them more like just another grand company


For Space Wolves, the "improvised" story that massive casualties are replaced by Primaris from stasis does not work out like it did for Blood Angels.
Funny thing would be that the Primaris still would need to start as Blood Claws to accepted by the Wolves and stuff like forming their own units with their own special weapons would not be accepted

yes there IS a space wolves Primaris Sucessor. they are called the Wolf Spear. Dark Imperium (the novel) confirms this. the diea that space wolves somehow magicly need to recruit exclusivly from fenris and are magicly tied to Fenris falls apart in the face of basic fething logic given the existance of Terran Space Wolves during the great crusade.

yeah there were Terran SW, but this is not in conflict with the fluff, as they made it to Fenris and stayed there before the negative effects got them wiped out.

Space Wolves don't need to come from Fenris, although the modified DNA of the people there is an advantage for the transformation.
But they need to return to Fenris from time to time.


So if there is a successor chapter, it need to be stationed on Fenris, or they are just no real Space Wolves (just Primaris in Grey)

 kodos wrote:
yeah there were Terran SW, but this is not in conflict with the fluff, as they made it to Fenris and stayed there before the negative effects got them wiped out.

Space Wolves don't need to come from Fenris, although the modified DNA of the people there is an advantage for the transformation.
But they need to return to Fenris from time to time.


So if there is a successor chapter, it need to be stationed on Fenris, or they are just no real Space Wolves (just Primaris in Grey)

and whats your source for this magical needs to stay on fenris crap?

Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Primeris space wolves not upgraded from original wolves will end in degeneration it's only a matter of time.

hobojebus wrote:
Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Primeris space wolves not upgraded from original wolves will end in degeneration it's only a matter of time.

potentially, unless Cawl's resolved the issue, apparently a space wolf wolf preist nearly had the flaw fixed around the time of the battle of the fang, Cawl's had longer and had better facilities etc

BrianDavion wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Primeris space wolves not upgraded from original wolves will end in degeneration it's only a matter of time.

potentially, unless Cawl's resolved the issue, apparently a space wolf wolf preist nearly had the flaw fixed around the time of the battle of the fang, Cawl's had longer and had better facilities etc

However fenris had a much higher level of technilogical expertise with gene craft than most of the imperium according to the horus heresy sources.

hobojebus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Primeris space wolves not upgraded from original wolves will end in degeneration it's only a matter of time.

potentially, unless Cawl's resolved the issue, apparently a space wolf wolf preist nearly had the flaw fixed around the time of the battle of the fang, Cawl's had longer and had better facilities etc

However fenris had a much higher level of technilogical expertise with gene craft than most of the imperium according to the horus heresy sources.

Wouldn't doubt it with the Wolf Sue's.

hobojebus wrote:
Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

Haven't read that before. Is that in a HH novel or a Forgeworld book?

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Is there an actual quote for this ? AFAIK it's not really clear why the Wolfbrothers all mutated. Might also have been Tzeentch's influence for all we know.
The SWs tried to remove the curse because they lose many aspirants to it.
I don't know of any text clearly stating that recruiting is only possible on Fenris.

hobojebus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Primeris space wolves not upgraded from original wolves will end in degeneration it's only a matter of time.

potentially, unless Cawl's resolved the issue, apparently a space wolf wolf preist nearly had the flaw fixed around the time of the battle of the fang, Cawl's had longer and had better facilities etc

However fenris had a much higher level of technilogical expertise with gene craft than most of the imperium according to the horus heresy sources.

Maybe back in the early days of colonization, but that doesn't have much impact on M32 space wolves or so. keep in mind Cawl was working from the emperor's notes. as well as had full access to the genetic data on the primarchs

BrianDavion wrote:

and whats your source for this magical needs to stay on fenris crap?

Ever heard of the Wolf Brothers and why they are no more?
That it is impossible for SW to have successor chapters (with the Wolf Brothers as an example were they tried and failed) is part of the SW fluff since the very beginning (2nd or 3rd Edi Space Marine and SW Codex?)

Ragnar69 wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Terran Vith legion were not mass recruited from populations like other chapters but hand picked and tested from tribes all over terra Daddy knew the gene seed had issues.

Haven't read that before. Is that in a HH novel or a Forgeworld book?

The only sucesor chapter the wolf brothers was a magnificent failure where 100% fell to mutation.

If you didn't need the genetically modified people of fenris to make wolves why were the wolves themselves trying to alter their gene seed to remove the curse?

Is there an actual quote for this ? AFAIK it's not really clear why the Wolfbrothers all mutated. Might also have been Tzeentch's influence for all we know.
The SWs tried to remove the curse because they lose many aspirants to it.
I don't know of any text clearly stating that recruiting is only possible on Fenris.

The recruitment is from inferno.

The wolf brothers falling to rampant mutation comes from multiple sources like battle of the fang novel as well as varies books i've read over the last 20 years so i can't name specific sources it's just something thats been taken as granted forever.

Ragnar69 wrote:

Is there an actual quote for this ?

"Battle of the Fang" novel
saying that they tried to modify the gene seed to allow them to form successor chapters
after the battle, Bjorn decided to end those experiments as he counted it as heresy

I don't know where the need to spend time on Fenris fluff comes from, unless I'm out of the loop and something changed.

Back during the Eye of Terror campaign the 13 Company reappeared after a large chunk of the Legion disappeared into the Eye on the trail of Russ. Other than their large numbers of Wulfen due to their reaction to resisting the Warp for a very long time (unknown due to Warp time-altering effects) and the simple fact that they kept them for use instead of putting them down, nothing was said about them being any different mentally than standard Space Wolves.

Still wanna know how Terran Space Wolves mesh with the 'can't use anyone but Fenrisians' fluff. It's always stymied me.

I think you can pull it off; I'm sure Cael's tinkering could be used as a plot device to make this acceptable.

Space Wolf Fluff changes all the time - this is no different.

Having followed them from the days of Rogue Trader and the Book of the Astronomican - they are perhaps the least consistantly handled Chapter.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I don't know where the need to spend time on Fenris fluff comes from, unless I'm out of the loop and something changed.

Back during the Eye of Terror campaign the 13 Company reappeared after a large chunk of the Legion disappeared into the Eye on the trail of Russ. Other than their large numbers of Wulfen due to their reaction to resisting the Warp for a very long time (unknown due to Warp time-altering effects) and the simple fact that they kept them for use instead of putting them down, nothing was said about them being any different mentally than standard Space Wolves.

Still wanna know how Terran Space Wolves mesh with the 'can't use anyone but Fenrisians' fluff. It's always stymied me.

yeah thats why I'm asking, the need for Ferensian recruits has always sort of existed but I've never heard anything about some magical need to be on Fenris.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Space Wolf Fluff changes all the time - this is no different.

and I think we're going to see a influx of lore suggesting that "improved genetic screening has allowed for space wolves sucessors to recruit from elsewhere" IMHO there is a LOT of potential for space wolves sucessors. for example, Maybe a space wolf sucessor takes a feudal world that's semi medeival france as it's recruiting world, the end result... werewolf space normans! Perhaps another, as a result of some deed they do for Gulliman are granted a world in or near ultramar, and become sort of a "space vangardians" etc

 Mr Morden wrote:
Space Wolf Fluff changes all the time - this is no different.
Having followed them from the days of Rogue Trader and the Book of the Astronomican - they are perhaps the least consistantly handled Chapter.

Somehow they are
but I think I am too old now to keep up with those changes (before I take on a Primaris Space Wolves successor chapter I take some Mantic Forge Fathers and build up a Squat army for 8th)

As far as I know Cawl has mystically solved all the Chapter's mutation problems, anyway, including the instability of the Canis Helix, which had supposedly already nearly been solved by a Rune Priest, anyway. So I would assume it's perfectly possible to have Space Wolf successors, now, at least physically. Still have to convince the Wolves, though.

Plus the need for successors may be fading, as Guilliman seems to be easing up on the constraints of the Codex, we may simply see larger Chapters.

It's easier to just allow it so Little Timmy can create his brand new Primaris Marine Space Wolf Combo Pack new money hotcakes than say it isn't fluffy to appease the diehard veterans who haven't bought a model in 5 years who need fluff justification. The only reason primaris are available in every flavor is to sell them to everyone. They even threw the 9 Traitor and 2 missing ones in there to snatch us Traitors up too.

Not saying it was a good reason I liked, simply a canon reason.

I still hate most of Cawl's fluff.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
It's easier to just allow it so Little Timmy can create his brand new Primaris Marine Space Wolf Combo Pack new money hotcakes than say it isn't fluffy to appease the diehard veterans who haven't bought a model in 5 years who need fluff justification. The only reason primaris are available in every flavor is to sell them to everyone. They even threw the 9 Traitor and 2 missing ones in there to snatch us Traitors up too.

well given that everytime vanilla marines have gotten just about any new toy previously it's been met with wails of "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT TOO!" from the "non codex compliant" chapter players

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
It's easier to just allow it so Little Timmy can create his brand new Primaris Marine Space Wolf Combo Pack new money hotcakes than say it isn't fluffy to appease the diehard veterans who haven't bought a model in 5 years who need fluff justification. The only reason primaris are available in every flavor is to sell them to everyone. They even threw the 9 Traitor and 2 missing ones in there to snatch us Traitors up too.

well given that everytime vanilla marines have gotten just about any new toy previously it's been met with wails of "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT TOO!" from the "non codex compliant" chapter players

Thats a good point

A theory that follows the "There are no Wolves on Fenris" quote.

People who landed on Fenris were modified with canine DNA in order to survive, making them hairier and able to produce more energy than normal terrans, more energy that converted to body heat. Fenris being a Death World already chocked with ways for a person to disappear means folk probably wouldn't have been too surprised by disappearing people or some new monstrous beast showing up. Give that a few thousand years and the rest of the population stabalises but the disappeared people became an entirely new species - aka the Fenrisian Wolves.

Fast forward a few thousand years to the time of the Big E and his legions.
The first Space Wolves were Terrans, or at least not Fenrisians - they were one of the three chapters created in isolation after all so they might not be Terrans either. The Canis Helix is the part of the Space Wolves Geneseed that gives them their desired canine traits of loyalty and more intense senses.
The theory itself is that when the Terran Space Wolves died and the Canis Helix Geneseed was exposed to the Fenrisian stock's canine modified DNA it grafted to it and changed, becoming more of what a Space Wolf should be but also becoming dependant on the Fenrisian DNA - call it bad luck and the fact none of the Primarchs really knew enough about their legions a bit of extra hair on the Fenrisian stock wasn't too surprising, add in Russ' folly in adoring his "home planet" the Space Wolves made the Fenrisian rite of passage part of the aspirant trials but made it more severe - dropping the aspirant butt naked in the wild more severe - the fact that a lot of Space Marine aspirants fail anyway, combined with the fact that Fenris is quite happy to murder people and bury them under a few tonnes of snow never finding bodies wouldn't be too surprising.
The Space Wolves were also at war so a high turnover in bodies and the unpredictable nature of the mutation meant the Space Wolves' Fenrisian Geneseeds were entirely exposed to the Fenrisian DNA by the time the mutation was actually discovered - according to the novel Leman Russ the first discovery was during The Wolf and the Lion incident where Russ and Johnson duked it out - Russ was the second Primarch found, Johnson's discovery was in the late teens, plenty of time for a higher volume of the Terran stock to get purged and replaced by Fenrisian hosts and the vast majority of Geneseeds to be dependant on Fenrisian canine DNA.

Guilliman ordered the creation after the crusade when Blood Angels were already hiding the Black Rage and Red Thirst and the Space Wolves were hiding the Wulfen, I doubt they would have forked over gene seeds, I also doubt Guilliman would bother asking chapters without Primarchs or those with notoriously stubbourn Primarchs and since all chapters seem to be sourced I'd say the Primaris Marines were created from stock that never made it to Fenris.

I haven't seen any scources on the Wolf Spear except the icons so I'm rambling a theory here, a Wolf Priest actually came close to successfully isolating the Canis Helix and seperating the Geneseed from the Fenrisian DNA - so the Thousand Sons murdered him and destroyed his work but let's say enough information was common knowledge in the Wolf Priest's ranks that the reason for the complete failure of the Wolf Brothers was the Geneseed's exposure to and reliance on Fenrisian DNA - a Wolf Priest like Ulrik the Slayer who was a Wolf Priest before Grimnar was a Blood Claw and who Grimnar still takes council from and a cranky old Dread named Bjorn the Fell Handed who was Chapter Master before Ulrik the Slayer was a Blood Claw both even suggested making the Primaris Space Wolves into a successor chapter let alone argued for it it would happen.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
It's easier to just allow it so Little Timmy can create his brand new Primaris Marine Space Wolf Combo Pack new money hotcakes than say it isn't fluffy to appease the diehard veterans who haven't bought a model in 5 years who need fluff justification. The only reason primaris are available in every flavor is to sell them to everyone. They even threw the 9 Traitor and 2 missing ones in there to snatch us Traitors up too.

well given that everytime vanilla marines have gotten just about any new toy previously it's been met with wails of "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT TOO!" from the "non codex compliant" chapter players

I never said that about centurion's or the flying potato I assure you.

hobojebus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
It's easier to just allow it so Little Timmy can create his brand new Primaris Marine Space Wolf Combo Pack new money hotcakes than say it isn't fluffy to appease the diehard veterans who haven't bought a model in 5 years who need fluff justification. The only reason primaris are available in every flavor is to sell them to everyone. They even threw the 9 Traitor and 2 missing ones in there to snatch us Traitors up too.

well given that everytime vanilla marines have gotten just about any new toy previously it's been met with wails of "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE IT TOO!" from the "non codex compliant" chapter players

I never said that about centurion's or the flying potato I assure you.

Ditto on the Centurions.
I wasn't around when the flying potato was released but I actually think they look better than the half ass-ault ram Space Wolf Flyers do. Wolf skulls my butt., they're ugly.

Seems like you could always say they froze from Space Wolves who underwent the Primaris procedure and when they need came, Big Daddy G had them unfrozen and returned to the wolves as allies and to help replenish them.