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So much as the Subject header stands, do people have any units they had in their army that were generally consistent underperformers or units that you only took in select situations that now have a better appeal to them in 8th edition.

Mine personally is Warp Talons. These guys in 7th were an underrated gem. In 7th, their less than useful Warpflame strike rule and incapability to charge after deepstrike without specific mission rules or the Raptro talon formation really didn't play in their favour, but once they got in, they were terrifying.
In this edition, Charging after deep strike makes them pretty great considering the dual lightning claw bonuses, Death to the false emperor bonuses and warpflame strike meaning you cannot overwatch them the turn they deep strike. if you roll that 8inch charge distance, 3+save models are very likely to bite the dust, and that's before the chaos lord bonus reroll.

For me, the biggest one is Vespids. The combination of useful fire output, fast movement and cheap points costs mean that Vespids are actually useful for the first time ever.

Mandrakes. They have been utter garbage forever and are now a very, very good unit. I've played about a dozen games now and in half of them, I have taken mandrakes. They always perform well so far, although 6 games are not exactly exhaustive.

They have a decent rate of fire (2 shots per model) at a decent range (24), the ability to put serious wounds on anything (extra Mortal Wound on a 6 to wound), are capable melee combatants (3 attacks each at S4). Add to this they have a 5++ and anything targeting them takes a -1 to hit.

Being Dark Eldar also helps as they can ignore damage on a 6+ after their 5++ from turn 1, reroll that 9" charge from turn 2 onwards and hit on 2s from turn 3 onwards in close combat.

About your warp talons:

Tristanleo wrote:
if you roll that 8inch charge distance

Its a 9" charge like everyone else right?

jade_angel wrote:
For me, the biggest one is Vespids. The combination of useful fire output, fast movement and cheap points costs mean that Vespids are actually useful for the first time ever.

That's awesome. I always liked vespids in concept, but not execution.

Drager wrote:


About your warp talons:

Tristanleo wrote:
if you roll that 8inch charge distance

Its a 9" charge like everyone else right?

You only have to be within an inch to get a successful charge, so if you position 9 inches from the closest enemy and charge, you only need 8 inches to successfully charge.

How perform Ogryns in 8th?

Tristanleo wrote:

Drager wrote:


About your warp talons:

Tristanleo wrote:
if you roll that 8inch charge distance

Its a 9" charge like everyone else right?

You only have to be within an inch to get a successful charge, so if you position 9 inches from the closest enemy and charge, you only need 8 inches to successfully charge.

You have to be "more than 9 inches" away when you DS. This means you must be a minimum of 9.0000001" from the enemy, meaning you still need a 9" charge to get within 1" on a deep strike.

Shining Spears. Overpriced and ineffectual before, but now that Aerobatic Grace is an Invulnerable save instead of a cover save, the laser lance can be used alongside double the shuriken catapult shots, and they've gotten two Wounds and two Damage off the laser lances they're much better. Much more expensive, too, but their durability and damage output have both skyrocketed.

Tristanleo wrote:

You only have to be within an inch to get a successful charge, so if you position 9 inches from the closest enemy and charge, you only need 8 inches to successfully charge.

Except that you have to be more than 9" away.

So you're not actually allowed to deploy them exactly 9" away.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shining Spears. Overpriced and ineffectual before, but now that Aerobatic Grace is an Invulnerable save instead of a cover save, the laser lance can be used alongside double the shuriken catapult shots, and they've gotten two Wounds and two Damage off the laser lances they're much better. Much more expensive, too, but their durability and damage output have both skyrocketed.

They are still overpriced. 43 points/model is simply too high for what they can accomplish.

Imperial acolytes. Three wounds each eight points per model.

Seraphim. Strictly worse than Dominions in 7e. Maybe they're still worse than Dominions in 8e, but Dominions are expensive [points-wise] and Seraphim are much less so.

Unfortunately, Seraphim are more expensive money-wise, so going and buying a very large blob off the bat isn't particularly viable.

Nobz with combi skorchas and upgraded cc weapons. Haven't checked the points but multi wound models that auto hit and first strike power klaws sounds strong even if the price is high

Lucky I built that just because it sounded cool when it was a waste

Ravagers. Went from being useless in 7th to an effective tank killer.

Genestealers. They went from very situational glass cannons to certified facial reconstruction surgeons overnight.

The point reduction was already good enough but the 5+ invul save, huge movement, charge after advancing, being able to charge out of a Trygon's glory hole and absolutely ridiculous amount of attacks in high numbers pushed them into "awesome" territory.

To me Rough Riders seem much more interesting now then they were previously. I don't have my book in front of me so may be a bit wrong but deploying after everyone else and coming in 7 inches from any table edge as long as more than 9 inches from an enemy seems useful.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Shining Spears. Overpriced and ineffectual before, but now that Aerobatic Grace is an Invulnerable save instead of a cover save, the laser lance can be used alongside double the shuriken catapult shots, and they've gotten two Wounds and two Damage off the laser lances they're much better. Much more expensive, too, but their durability and damage output have both skyrocketed.

They are still overpriced. 43 points/model is simply too high for what they can accomplish.

Let's not forget that they also get the Exarch for "free" and his Star lance is only 3ppm more than a regular lance.
And because they have the <Fly> keyword, they basically got Hit & Run, which they have been lacking in 7E.
Spears are easily one of the most improved Eldar units in the army

 Imateria wrote:
Ravagers. Went from being useless in 7th to an effective tank killer.

Agreed. I don't really play Dark Eldar anymore (just allies for my Eldar), but I'll be throwing Ravagers in my <Aeldari> lists quite often.
At least until we know what Hornets do.

-

Ratlings. God DAMN are those guys worth 7ppm. They have laid the smackdown on many a vital minor enemy buff character in my games, at one point one-shotting a commissar with some lucky 6s and allowing me to tear apart two full conscript blobs in a single turn.

Bezerkers are back baby! In 7th they were hardly used, until Traitor legions came along and then they were never used. But now? Kitted with a Chain axe and a Chainsword and accompanied by say, Kharn, they are monstrous! 2x S6 AP-1 attacks + a S5 attack hitting on 3+ re-rolling with Kharn and after all that they get to attack again! A unit of 5 gets 30 attacks! Just to make things even better they can charge out of transports and Icon of Wrath gives them a re-roll for charge distances (make things extra spicey by allying Sorcerors for warptime and +1 to hit on your Bezerker blob).

Electro-Priests with staves.

I snuck them up the middle in a game and charged a lesser unit of marines that I had wittled down to 2 models in shooting.

My 9 electropriests (lost one during their march) made quick work of them and moved into 3 units standing too close to the original unit. Since they had just wiped a unit in close combat, they are now 3++ and 5+++. While they weren't really impressive in combat (not bad, just not impressive with only 2 attacks each) they were close to impossible to kill. They just kept hacking small dents in things while tarpitting.

Sanguinary Guard are much better now. With 2 wounds and their weapons being all D3 damage it really makes them hit hard, plus synergies that come in with HQ choices nearby make them damn killy.

Captain or Warlord lets them reroll all failed to hit rolls.
The 2+ armor save and 2 wounds makes them surprisingly durable.
The Aura from a Sanguinary High Priest makes them hit harder with +1 strength and ability to regain wounds with a Narthecium .
Librarians make them even more durable with the ability to cast a 4++ save on them and also give them +1 attack with psychic powers.
If you add in a Sanguinary Guard Ancient they are immune to morale and reroll 1's to wound.

I'm going to be adding some to my army as they're some of my favorite models and their effectiveness now at least seems to match their looks in my mind.

Death Company were already good, they're still good in my opinion.

The thing with my army is going to be judicious use of auras and buffs. Lots of HQ's, and elite units floating around.

We'll see what we can see. Exciting times for sure.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I would say:

Kommandos got cheaper and get free burnas. Can also 'deep strike' (the only ork unit that can now without wierdboyz) and reroll charges.

Battlewagons are......improved. They used to be awful, but now are pretty good, if a bit overpriced. At least the deff rolla isn't literally useless.

Oh! Bubblechukkas!

I wouldn't call them good, per se, as they are still pretty silly, and at least potentially useful.

Last edition, your str & ap were the same random 1d6 roll, so no matter what you rolled, it sucked. Str and Ap 6, str 1 and ap 1, str 4 and ap 4, pretty much any pair was useless to some degree.

Now, you roll 4 dice for str, shots, ap modifier, and damage. Then you and your opponent, starting with you, allocate one of each of the dice you rolled to those 4 characteristics.

So, it can potentially be 6-shot, str 6, ap -6, damage 6.

Also, deff dreads and orkanauts.

Rubrics, Scarab Terminators, and Magnus - oh my!

Tough as nails. Their guns got "worse", but with the new wound chart and relative AP values of other guns they're quite strong. Throw in rerolls to hit of 1 (from Magnus) and +1 to hit and you're just melting units.

Magnus used to be unkillable and had random success casting. Now he can be on the ground and just punch stuff to death so easily. Smite is just a bonus.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Seraphim. Strictly worse than Dominions in 7e. Maybe they're still worse than Dominions in 8e, but Dominions are expensive [points-wise] and Seraphim are much less so.

Unfortunately, Seraphim are more expensive money-wise, so going and buying a very large blob off the bat isn't particularly viable.

Can Seraphim still take double melta pistols? Various Space Elves put a lot of holes in my giant space bugs this weekend with high S pistols in CC, makes me wonder if Seraphim can pull the same trick off.

For me it's Gk strike squad marines. Went from being terrible to auto include. Free deep strike Storm bolter buffed by 2x. DS into cover for 2+ saves vs small arms. Each unit is armed with +1 attack -2 ap d3 damage force swords. Plus even their mini smite adds up.

Kommandos got cheaper and get free burnas. Can also 'deep strike' (the only ork unit that can now without wierdboyz) and reroll charges.

You've forgotten Storm Boyz.

babelfish wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Seraphim. Strictly worse than Dominions in 7e. Maybe they're still worse than Dominions in 8e, but Dominions are expensive [points-wise] and Seraphim are much less so.

Unfortunately, Seraphim are more expensive money-wise, so going and buying a very large blob off the bat isn't particularly viable.

Can Seraphim still take double melta pistols?

the Inferno Pistols? yep.

babelfish wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Seraphim. Strictly worse than Dominions in 7e. Maybe they're still worse than Dominions in 8e, but Dominions are expensive [points-wise] and Seraphim are much less so.

Unfortunately, Seraphim are more expensive money-wise, so going and buying a very large blob off the bat isn't particularly viable.

Can Seraphim still take double melta pistols? Various Space Elves put a lot of holes in my giant space bugs this weekend with high S pistols in CC, makes me wonder if Seraphim can pull the same trick off.

Yes. Double Hand Flamers too.

With the Hand Flamers being able to fire in close quarters combat and 25-30" of movement on turn 1, combined with being the only unit fast enough to keep pace with and escort Celestine, I think they can do some pretty major damage.

Drager wrote:
Mandrakes. They have been utter garbage forever and are now a very, very good unit. I've played about a dozen games now and in half of them, I have taken mandrakes. They always perform well so far, although 6 games are not exactly exhaustive.

They have a decent rate of fire (2 shots per model) at a decent range (24), the ability to put serious wounds on anything (extra Mortal Wound on a 6 to wound), are capable melee combatants (3 attacks each at S4). Add to this they have a 5++ and anything targeting them takes a -1 to hit.

Being Dark Eldar also helps as they can ignore damage on a 6+ after their 5++ from turn 1, reroll that 9" charge from turn 2 onwards and hit on 2s from turn 3 onwards in close combat.
.

This has me excited, cause I love mandrakes

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
With the Hand Flamers being able to fire in close quarters combat and 25-30" of movement on turn 1, combined with being the only unit fast enough to keep pace with and escort Celestine, I think they can do some pretty major damage.

i assume you're getting your long distance first turn movement by having them already on the field + AoF (movement one) which would only still get you 24" plus than advancing? if so, i honestly hadn't thought of using them like that...

 captain bloody fists wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
With the Hand Flamers being able to fire in close quarters combat and 25-30" of movement on turn 1, combined with being the only unit fast enough to keep pace with and escort Celestine, I think they can do some pretty major damage.

i assume you're getting your long distance first turn movement by having them already on the field + AoF (movement one) which would only still get you 24" plus than advancing? if so, i honestly hadn't thought of using them like that...

Yeah. You "Move as if it was the movement phase", which permits advancing, and I'll have to check the wording since my books haven't come in the mail yet, but I believe that the lock on shooting weapons and charging is inflicted by "Advancing in the Movement Phase", so Advancing out of the Movement Phase under the effect of Hand of the Emperor doesn't lock your weapons. Either way, 24" is more than enough distance to cross the no-man's land against all but the most edge-camping armies.

Celestine sends 1 unit of Seraphim forwards, then jumps forward herself using your 2+ AoF, and any additional Seraphim have to be launched my Imagifiers. Then they all move 12" forward, up to enemy lines, and burn away infantry. Then they can do one of two things, based on opportunity: Charge a shooty unit, rendering it unable to shoot, or charge a transport, surrounding it to lock it in place and allowing Celestine [or something else, like a Pen Engine or Inferno Pistols next turn on AoF, if they have them], to finish it off and kill all the guys inside it in one go. They can even multicharge across the entire frontline to turn off a lot of shooting power.

While I'm not yet convinced they're better than Dominions, they're also way, way less expensive and they're still very good. They do kind of need continuous Act of Faith support, I think, which is a drawback because Imagifiers can't keep up with them, but in small games they're certainly powerful. Like many things, though, I don't think you can just spam them to win, so I'm not sure how many I want. I know I want more than I have, but I'm not sure if I need so many as to fill out a entire Outrider detachment with 10-girl squads.