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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 03:26:37
Subject: Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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I'm getting ahead of myself as I've only just ordered my copy of Xenos 1, but I do know these things:
-There are complaints about hordes being OP
-Miniwargaming's recent batreps don't disprove this
-Eldar used to be OP
-There have been a few comments to the effect of "Guardians are meh"
As someone in the process of building two boxes of Guardians to walk around with my Avatar, I am wondering how well that idea is likely to go this edition.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 04:40:55
Subject: Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Morale is going to keep this from being a competitive thing.
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"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 04:40:58
Subject: Re:Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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[I have and use a Footdar army] I've played two games so far, and I've.... survived, shall we say. Footdar is better this edition, but you will still lose a with a pure footdar army. Waveserpents make winning possible, but its still a challenge.
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Badablack wrote:40k starts with the question, “Who is worse, Satan or the Nazis?” And goes from there. It’s a big colorful ball pit full of horrible people screaming and shooting each other.
chromedog wrote:From the Fuggly DEldar of the time, before they let Jes goodwin have his good and proper way with the entire faction design.
I don't want the best army, just one that isn't an exercise in picking up my models by turn 3.
Badablack wrote:40k starts with the question, “Who is worse, Satan or the Nazis?” And goes from there. It’s a big colorful ball pit full of horrible people screaming and shooting each other.
PenitentJake wrote:It doesn't matter if you're not dominating the game; if you have 3-4 x as many models and options than the rest of us and you're still getting new kits, we're still gonna rip on the faction. If I had 100 + Drukhari kits all in plastic to choose from, or 100 + Sisters kits, I think I'd be more likely to be receptive to Space Marine player's complaints about anything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 08:42:53
Subject: Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Selym wrote:I'm getting ahead of myself as I've only just ordered my copy of Xenos 1, but I do know these things:
-There are complaints about hordes being OP
-Miniwargaming's recent batreps don't disprove this
-Eldar used to be OP
-There have been a few comments to the effect of "Guardians are meh"
As someone in the process of building two boxes of Guardians to walk around with my Avatar, I am wondering how well that idea is likely to go this edition.
A few things:
1. Most of the complaints about board armies are coming from people who haven't seen a horde army in action and don't understand its weaknesses.
2. Miniwargaming's batreps have good video quality, but the people actually playing are terrible. Watch them only if you want to see people playing armies with high skill ceilings make lots of dumb tactical mistakes. FLG is where you want to go for people who know what they're doing as far as tactics and strategies go.
3. Certain Eldar units and formations were OP in 7th edition. The problem is that outside of casual play nobody took the other Eldar units.
4. Footdar are mobile, but T3 really hurts. S6 and above wounds you on 2+, most basic infantry guns would you on 3+. Guardians are good screwing units and can pack a serious punch if given psychic buffs, but they will die. Wave Serpents and other vehicles are what give Eldar staying power now. Out basic transport is one of the most expensive for what it does, but it is extremely effective. T7 14 wounds with the ability to both reduce incoming damage by 1 to a min of 1 and ignoring said damage on a 6+ and forcing a -1 to hit if you advance is no joke.
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~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 09:01:24
Subject: Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The main thing with hordes is that there aren't any ways to cost-efficiently kill them. Guardians are substantially more expensive than Guardsmen, so this is much less of an issue.
Now, they do get much more firepower (within 12") in exchange, but you can't actually do much with this with a horde of on-foot Guardians. So Guardians really only work with Serpents, but at that point you're paying more for your vehicles than for your horde.
If Dire Avengers actually only cost 10 points per model, as seems intended by their power rating, then a horde of those would be pretty scary.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 11:49:51
Subject: Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The problem with horde armies is that a lot of lists cannot bring the weight of fire necessary to thin them down quickly enough. Normally Battleshock should keep them in check but GW (in their usual fashion) have put in too many morale-ignoring rules meaning that Battleshock doesn't erode these units the way it should.
I think that Snipers to take Commisars and the like who tend to create the immunity bubbles is one way forward. The Meta has not adjusted to 8th yet but I think in time we will see most armies including at least 1-2 units of snipers.
Another solution is to play Marines and spam assault-cannon Razorbacks. You can easily fit 6 in a regular sized game while still leaving points for the dudes inside with the melta guns to burn down tough targets. That is 72 S6 shots with -1AP per turn. Should burn down hordes pretty quickly and no one can accuse Tactical squads in transports of being unfluffy. It also makes a good use for the models from those 7th Ed Gladius formations.
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I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/20 12:32:03
Subject: Footdar, the non-OP horde?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Its the new Rock/Paper/Scissors game
Do you take anti-Horde weapons or do you take anti-vehicle/MC weapons?
From what i've seen so far more people are still fawning over their new cool anti-vehicle buffs and such. Every 8th game ive played has been anti-vehicle heavy or anti-elite infantry heavy.
To many SM players are enamored with LCs being useful and don't take Missile Launchers which are seriously good at reducing hordes AND almost as good at Vehicles.
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