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Unit O1 starts within 1" of unit P2 and wants to make a Fall Back move rather than be chopped to bits.

To literally fall back, they'd move toward their table edge. However, O1 uses their move to seize Objective 3, rationale being that the rules only require they end their move more than 1" from an enemy unit, and that as they started within 1" they *must* be able to move within 1" of the enemy to be able to get out of 1" range.

Purple player protests, saying that surely they don't have carte blanche permission to remain within 1" and essentially hug the enemy models and "do a lap" of the unit they're fighting. That's not falling back to Purple player's mind, and feels wrong.

Orange player just shrugs and repeats the rules only say they must finish outside 1" and don't describe what they can or can't do in between.


Questions:

1 - Who is correct?
- If Orange is correct, could they literally moved between models in unit P2 if the gaps were big enough?
- If Purple is correct, what rules support their view explicitly?
2 - Would it matter if O1 moved within 1" of unit P1 as well during their Fall Back move? {imagine P1 a little closer than in the diagram)

Orange is correct. This edition has zero restrictions on Fall Back Movements other than being unable to advance, shoot or charge.

Spez: Good point below about moving within 1" of another enemy unit. Page 177 explicitly states "When you move a model in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy models." Whether that means at no point may it be within 1" or if it means it just can't end there is a matter for debate.

To touch on your separate points:

It is perfectly legal for you to move toward Objective 3. There are no mentions of table edges or direction of falling back. You can move however you like, so long as you are further than 1" away from enemy models at the end of your move. That said, if you move past two enemy units to secure an objective, and you can't charge or shoot, you're probably going to get chopped up anyway.

The next point is a little trickier. Can you move within 1" of another enemy unit during your Fall Back? I'd say no. The Enemy Models section in the Movement rules prohibits that. So, then how long can you stay within 1" of the unit you're fleeing from? That's the real question here.

I'd say you're allowed to skirt the enemy unit you're fleeing from, remaining within 1" while you move, so long as you end more than 1" away from them and do not come within 1" of another enemy unit. This interpretation does not break any rules.

 puma713 wrote:
To touch on your separate points:

It is perfectly legal for you to move toward Objective 3. There are no mentions of table edges or direction of falling back. You can move however you like, so long as you are further than 1" away from enemy models at the end of your move. That said, if you move past two enemy units to secure an objective, and you can't charge or shoot, you're probably going to get chopped up anyway.

The next point is a little trickier. Can you move within 1" of another enemy unit during your Fall Back? I'd say no. The Enemy Models section in the Movement rules prohibits that. So, then how long can you stay within 1" of the unit you're fleeing from? That's the real question here.

I'd say you're allowed to skirt the enemy unit you're fleeing from, remaining within 1" while you move, so long as you end more than 1" away from them and do not come within 1" of another enemy unit. This interpretation does not break any rules.

Well, if falling back models can't move at all within 1" of enemy models, then they aren't able to move at all (since a falling back unit is always going to start within 1" of the enemy).

I think the safe presumption is that falling back units are allowed to move within 1" of enemy models, they just can't END their move within 1" of enemy models, thereby allowing them to move through 'gaps' between enemy models that they can fully fit through, otherwise the whole concept of a fall back move kind of implodes.

With that said, GW really needs to clarify this via FAQ because none of it holds up under scrutiny.

This might be a case of English English vs American English. Did they mean within as "moving to inside of" or just "inside of" 1"?

Because it can mean both things and is a weird word to use for this.

quick edit: This matters only if there are essentially two lines of infantry fighting. If any model is enveloped the move fails regardless right? Or if it has to move through another enemy model's 1" zone, it would fail under the strict interpretation.

 yakface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
To touch on your separate points:

It is perfectly legal for you to move toward Objective 3. There are no mentions of table edges or direction of falling back. You can move however you like, so long as you are further than 1" away from enemy models at the end of your move. That said, if you move past two enemy units to secure an objective, and you can't charge or shoot, you're probably going to get chopped up anyway.

The next point is a little trickier. Can you move within 1" of another enemy unit during your Fall Back? I'd say no. The Enemy Models section in the Movement rules prohibits that. So, then how long can you stay within 1" of the unit you're fleeing from? That's the real question here.

I'd say you're allowed to skirt the enemy unit you're fleeing from, remaining within 1" while you move, so long as you end more than 1" away from them and do not come within 1" of another enemy unit. This interpretation does not break any rules.

Well, if falling back models can't move at all within 1" of enemy models, then they aren't able to move at all (since a falling back unit is always going to start within 1" of the enemy).

I think the safe presumption is that falling back units are allowed to move within 1" of enemy models, they just can't END their move within 1" of enemy models, thereby allowing them to move through 'gaps' between enemy models that they can fully fit through, otherwise the whole concept of a fall back move kind of implodes.

With that said, GW really needs to clarify this via FAQ because none of it holds up under scrutiny.

I definitely wouldn't prohibit my opponent from any of these scenarios. I think orange is allowed to do most everything asked in this thread.

I think Falling Back is giving you permission to move a model out of the 1" exclusion zone around an Enemy Model, but you still can't "break the bubble" on any other model(s). This includes any other Enemy models in the same unit.

The OPs move is entirely legal as long as all moving models stay 1" away from models in P1 and P2.

You cannot move through enemy models, unless you have fly

that is the only thing I can think off that would restrict your movement forward

Snapshot wrote:
I think Falling Back is giving you permission to move a model out of the 1" exclusion zone around an Enemy Model, but you still can't "break the bubble" on any other model(s). This includes any other Enemy models in the same unit.

The OPs move is entirely legal as long as all moving models stay 1" away from models in P1 and P2.

Fall Back only references within 1" of *units* though, whereas Movement references within 1" of *models*. So I'm not sure this model by mode interpretation holds up.

So far we've rationalised it as Fight Phase being a swirling melee and literal miniature positions being fluid. So whilst static models may seem to be moving round, they could be retreating by smashing through a line to escape, or simply not be quite *exactly* where our glorified counters are.

Definitely filed under "feels weird but it's 8th, baby". Thanks for all the input! We couldn't find anything prohibiting such a move, but have figured you don't have a free hand to move through other units' 1" bubbles. Just the one you're fleeing from.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
I think Falling Back is giving you permission to move a model out of the 1" exclusion zone around an Enemy Model, but you still can't "break the bubble" on any other model(s). This includes any other Enemy models in the same unit.

The OPs move is entirely legal as long as all moving models stay 1" away from models in P1 and P2.

Fall Back only references within 1" of *units* though, whereas Movement references within 1" of *models*. So I'm not sure this model by mode interpretation holds up.

So far we've rationalised it as Fight Phase being a swirling melee and literal miniature positions being fluid. So whilst static models may seem to be moving round, they could be retreating by smashing through a line to escape, or simply not be quite *exactly* where our glorified counters are.

Definitely filed under "feels weird but it's 8th, baby". Thanks for all the input! We couldn't find anything prohibiting such a move, but have figured you don't have a free hand to move through other units' 1" bubbles. Just the one you're fleeing from.

Until FAQ'd at least...

You're free to go into any bubble as long as you end outside all bubbles.