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Now that R&H can take cheap snipers in the form of Marauders, what is the real-terms value of them on the table? Sniper rifles are really just bolters with a 16.5% chance to cause a mortal wound. What would be the critical mass for this weapon, to be able to realistically threaten characters? With only 2 weapons per squad multiple Marauder units would have to be fielded but how many before they start to become effective and not just a long-shot chance at plinking off a wound every other turn?

If they're proper snipers, they can target characters that are hiding behind units (normally, you can only target characters if they're the closest unit or something to that effect; snipers can always target them).

I'm not that impressed. You can only take 2 snipers and every time you take a casualty there is a 1/6 chance of wiping the squad. The stalkers rule is nice I guess. I would rather make Marauders into sacrificial meat shields, using brutes to tank wounds and with a 4+ save. As the casualty amount doesn't really affect them they are suited to dying and shotguns make them good at close up work.

"The" point of snipers appears to simply be picking out opposing characters. That'll mean they vary immensely in usefulness depending on who your opponent runs.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm not that impressed. You can only take 2 snipers and every time you take a casualty there is a 1/6 chance of wiping the squad. The stalkers rule is nice I guess. I would rather make Marauders into sacrificial meat shields, using brutes to tank wounds and with a 4+ save. As the casualty amount doesn't really affect them they are suited to dying and shotguns make them good at close up work.

Speaking of the Stalker rule, the +1 for being in cover, think that means they are +2 to their armor for being in cover? Basically this unit would be like marine snipers in that sense, but the -1 to hit them is pretty solid. I agree that they seem more suited for up close and personal work. They are pretty much exactly the same as they were in 7th, but just a little cheaper. They also changed brutes from T4 to T3 to avoid mixed toughness. I've been wanting to convert a squad of these guys to function like a renegade inquisition, or rag tag A-Team of outcasts. In the moral rule was too gakky. Now you can at least re-roll that one, or take an enforcer with them.

2 snipers is pretty bleh though.

Well you can take marauders as meat shields and close range killers but that's not what I'm asking :-) I want them as snipers for my Alpha Legion force. But at two weapons per squad how many will I need? My current thoughts are to field 2 squads in a Valkyrie and drop them somewhere nice to snipe from. With -1 to hit and a 3+ save in cover they're gonna be a pain to remove, and that 1/6 chance to completely flee isn't worth worrying about at all. If they get shot they'll likely take more than 1 casualty anyway, not likely that they take only 1 casualty and then you roll a 1. And if you do, well that's why you took 3 detachments and loaded up on command points right? 1/6 is easily mitigated by a re-roll.

So would 4 sniper rifles really be bothering characters? Or would I need 4 squads for 8 guns? I like the idea of using Marauders as spec-op sniper teams. They're as close as I can get to chaos scouts.

4 squads of sniper Marauders are coming in at only a little more than a single Heavy Bolter/Autocannon even split Havoc squad. That havoc squad can pump out tons of shots and threaten many things, would 8 sniper rifles bring to the table that amount of value?

It depends on what you're facing, Nids, probably not as most of their charters are to big to hide.

Necrons and Guard, definitely as the buffs some of there characters give would make them a primary target before you open up with other units.

A full conscript squad isn't going anywhere with a commissar behind it, but take him out and they run in drovers.

Personally, I'm running with a full scout sniper squad (combat squad split) to give me the table coverage. If you want 1 turn kills then you probably need the 4 units but if your happy to plug away then 1-2 units should be fine. Who knows, they might pop a hive tyrant with the odd mortal wound.

A unit of 5 with 2 snipers isn't horribly bad I guess. 34 pts makes them spamable, although they are behind the 5 ratlings you would get for 35 pts. They are far more durable than the ratlings though, with t3 and the -1 to hit from being stalkers. So they are not really the best snipers but you could probably manage something with them.

 Trickstick wrote:
A unit of 5 with 2 snipers isn't horribly bad I guess. 34 pts makes them spamable, although they are behind the 5 ratlings you would get for 35 pts. They are far more durable than the ratlings though, with t3 and the -1 to hit from being stalkers. So they are not really the best snipers but you could probably manage something with them.

Didn't realize they were that cheap, that gives you 5 units (10 rifles) for the about same price as a 10 man camo scout unit and you can cover a lot more of the board. If you've got the slots I'd probably take at least 3 units and add a few units that my opponent couldn't afford to ignore early on.

So my plan is to build a R&H force to go with my Alpha Legion, all spec-ops type stuff except for cultists which will be my bubble-wrap mandatory troop choices. For many game I'll be rockin a Land Raider Achilles, a beast you just can't ignore (though you can barely kill it either...). Big stuff doesn't concern me as between the metric-ton of mortal wounds that thing throws out, and the multi-melta's, and my preds I got the big stuff covered and I have the priority targets already.

I'm looking at Marauder snipers backed up by Disciples to fill out my model mass and give me cheaper elite shooting (BS3+ all around and lots of plasma). But it's been a long time since I played, back then snipers were good. I know they got crap in 7th but I don't know just how good they are in 8th yet.

With 36" range on these sniper rifles is that enough to deploy them in cover game start or should I be considering airdropping them via Valkyries onto the board? I'm interested to try the gamble and have the birds blaze across the table and chuck out a couple sniper teams into choice terrain, suffering the risk of death and -1 to hit the turn they drop. My own Hydra Drop Troops! I like the idea of this but I'm approaching this practically, if they can serve by deploying them right away I'll look at putting the Valkyrie points elsewhere.