What's so bad about scorpions?

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**CynosureEldar**

Deep strike + charge + mandibalsters/chainswords = a good time, so why is there so much hate?

**GodDamUser**

Because haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate...

You forgot the pistol

But really people may feel that there are better options to spend their points on

**Slayer-Fan123**

They're one of the better infantry shredders in melee. I'd definitely use them against things like Gaunts and Conscripts.

Of course I'm not an Eldar player but whatever.

**Marsyas**

Mostly it's the pincers. Looking at them creeps me out. I can deal with the legs and the tail, but the pincers? Ugh.

**DanielFM**

They are pretty expensive and relatively fragile for their cost. They lost Stealth (improved cover) in 8th edition, so people is missing it.
But they are rather decent. I ran some maths in another thread, you can see they are more killy (but far more fragile) than an equivalent Tyranid unit.

Hi. Trying to find how overpriced (or not?) are Striking Scorpions, I did some maths for the Ynnari thread:

I run some numbers of Striking Scorpions and a directly comparable unit, Tyranid Raveners.
Against a toughness 3, 5+ save in cover 6 Raveners (138 points) do 7,7 wounds on average.
Against the same unit a 5 SS unit (Exarch with Biting blade 107 points, with Chainsabres 111 points) do 7,71/8,25 wounds on average (pistols+mandiblasters+CC).

Not bad at all for a significantly cheaper unit! I know that may be an ideal scenario, but maybe it informs about the kind of target SS should pick.

To add some value to the half-assed maths, I also run the average resilience against 10 Marines rapid-firing bolters (130 points, approximately comparable).

SS (out of cover) would suffer 3 casualties, and probably pass their morale test (or suffer another casualty tops).
Raveners would suffer around 4.4 wounds (a full dead Ravener plus a wounded one), and would have a 1/3 chance of losing at least 1 more model due to morale.

I looks like Raveners clearly win at resilience, but that was to be expected at least by the 31/27 difference in points.

You could say: hey Daniel, why would I spend around 110 points for killing a GEQ squad in cover when I could do it with shooting? I guess a backfield, entrenched squad could be a problem to target .
Let's see how a 3 man Dark reaper squad with Tempest launcher (115 points) would do. To cut some slack for the underdog, let's assume the target is out of sight and only the Tempest launcher can fire. An average of 2.59 wounds. A Shadow Weaver would perform worse.

My point? SS are overpriced, but they are comparable to similar units, and have a role to play in which they are moderately efficient.

**BrianDavion**

the answer is simple, 270 point wraithknights. after that everything seems to suck

**BlaxicanX**

1. You're going to fail that charge the majority of the time even with reroll, leaving your expensive t3 squad out in the open for an asskicking in the shooting phase.

2. You may make the charge but there's every chance that what you're charging will kick your Scorpions' ass in melee, like genestealers or daemonettes while also costing less.

Too expensive, too fragile, not enough attacks per model.

Just like Banshees.

**CynosureEldar**

cue me googling probability for a bit, and realizing how bad a 9 inch charge is. It's not like terminations, which can survive a failed charge.....

**pm713**

Plus they went from having a very good Exarch weapon to that weapon being garbage so a lot of people get stuck with that unless they want to shell out for another squad.

**DanielFM**

Keep in mind Yvraine's (or Yncarne's) Word of the Phoenix would allow an almost guaranteed charge.

**Karhedron**

Wraithblades with Swords look like the most effective of the Eldar's melee units. The Axe and Shield Wraithblades are hugely expensive, Banshees and fragile and struggle to wound without Doom, Scorpions are not especially points effective.

However, people seem to be underestimating the value of melee units in Wave Serpents. The Wave Serpent is incredibly durable, pretty fast and very shooty. Banshees etc can disembark 3", make their normal 8" move and then assault. This gives them an average 18" threat range for the starting point of the Wave Serpent which is not bad at all.

People tend to make complain that units can just retreat from assault units in transports and while that is true up to a point, it means that they are backing themselves out of Rapid Fire range, giving themselves a -1 to hit on the their heavy weapons and still not backing away as fast as the Wave Serpent can advance. I am planning to test Banshees in a Serpent as I feel we may be underestimating them. Don't forget we can now add a cheap Warlock with Enhance/Drain to give them a bit of an edge in combat.

The real trick with Banshees is not to assault in the centre of the enemy's lines. You target will disengage and their buddies will shoot you up. Attack on the flanks and either use the Wave Serpent to eat overwatch or charge an adjacent unit to prevent them shooting. Serpents can disengage and shoot without penalty thanks tot he FLY keyword.

**DanielFM**

Karhedron wrote:
Scorpions are not especially points effective.

They may not seem point effective because they have their "transport" integrated into their cost. You can't compare them point for point against non-deepstriking units and expect them to be equal.
Maybe it would be interesting to compare them to Swooping Hawks, but it's not straightforward. Hawks can harm enemies the turn they fall, reliably. They can also kill and move onto another target easily. However, they can't tie a shooty unit like Scoprions would.

The real trick with Banshees is not to assault in the centre of the enemy's lines. You target will disengage and their buddies will shoot you up. Attack on the flanks and either use the Wave Serpent to eat overwatch or charge an adjacent unit to prevent them shooting. Serpents can disengage and shoot without penalty thanks tot he FLY keyword.

The same applies for Scorpions. They will be targetting isolated backfield units, usually in cover (hader to shift through shooting). Not every game will have a chance for them to shine, but several should.
It's a shame the Scorpion Claw is so weak, it would have helped Scorpions to have some bite (pun fully intended) against backfield artillery.

**DanielFM**

Just because I said I would do it (and to keep my crusade for Striking Scorpions redemption

)

5 Swooping Hawks plus Exarch with Hawk's Talon (105 points) deal 4.21 wounds on average to t 3 5+ save guys in cover. Compare with the 7.7 wounds an equivalent unit of Scorpions could do.
Yes, they have it easier dealing the damage the turn they arrive (guaranteed, in fact), but they are way more fragile by virtue of their 4+ save and not being safe from shooting as they would be in combat.

I see a pattern of balance in mediocrity

nah, jk. I mean, most Aspect warriors show internal balance and a bit of poor external balance, but I think they are all playable.