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All I can think of to use them for is some sort of shield wall of maybe 3 to hide characters behind as they march upfield firing at 5+ and re rolls of 1s. It seems not many things will survive before getting gunned down in daemon lists now. I was thinking of using belakor but since his psychic powers affect mainly csm I'm leaning towards maybe defilers for warp time? They can't shoot when they move they have 3 attacks in assault and they can't hit most things. Maybe have several characters hide behind a "wall" unit and summon them in as extra walls to protect against being targeted?

Serve as a distraction? I think deep striking them in first turn might be good. Then they are 9 inches away from the enemy and can make use of all of their wide variety of weapons.

If you are lucky, can even charge into combat on turn one straight after you deep strike if you roll high enough. With exact placement a thing now, we no longer need to worry about deep strike scatter. So, it doesn't matter that it has a large foot print.

And actually, they can move and fire, its just that they suffer a -1 to hit on their heavy weapons. That's very different from not being able to shoot when they move.

I've only played mine once so far, but he's feeling really incompetent with all those 4+ (or worse) to hits, combined with a pretty pitiful spread of attaks in the first place. Rocking warpclaw + Tzeentch, and at the moment it feels like all he has going for him is being 14 wounds with a 3/4+ save ... and already painted I can't even say his long range is nice (I play daemons), since he never hits with those guns!

I've got a Tizz Helbrute built and primed, so am thinking I'll get him painted and swapped in. Nowhere near the survivability but is a cheaper distraction that might just kill something, or at least hit it.

- Salvage

Where are y'all seeing that you can deep strike a soul grinder? These things are trash now tbh, hits on a 5+ after moving and moves slow as molasses. Things will just avoid it.

For 235 points you can get something actually useful.

Pretty sure they're talking about summoning one in? 11 power isn't insane on 3 dice ...

Debilitate wrote:
For 235 points you can get something actually useful.

Like 1.4 more daemon princes, m'right?

- Salvage

Or a Heldrake, which has a very similar stat line/durability, auto hits with its shooting and has RIDICULUSLY good movement. All for 20pts LESS than a Grinder

Good times

Smart, and I do need to finish this helturkey too ...

- Salvage

Summary
The soul grinder is not the best unit. It suffers from the 'hybrid tax' that GW places on all units that are good at multiple things.
It's not the worst unit in the codex -- that dubious 'honor' still goes to screamers. If were to want to find a place for them, it would be units that are just simply hard to kill.
Below I tried to cover the good and bad of the grinder.

The Good : Punching Tanks
Iron Claw is actually quite good against tanks, with damage ratios of a 64. While not the best damage ratio, it comes on very durable platform.
Basically, it's going to be hitting 1.5 times at 8+ wounds or 1 time at 4-7 wounds. When it hits, it will be wounding on a 2+ with a -3 to Save and d6 damage. That's not bad at all.

The Good : Tough
Tough. Nurgle is the way to go with these guys -- unless you have the changing nearby. Even still, I would run these guys as Nurgle with the tallyman - which lets the reroll 1s to hit after 2 enemy units are killed. Hitting 58.88% of the time instead of 50% of the time helps.
IMHO I've also found that a 3+/5++ with DR is better than a 3+/4++. Often you will be getting your 3+ save, and that DR stacks. The 4++ 5% less effective off the top, and is useless against bolters.
14 wounds is a bear to remove. Since you are taking Nurgle, that's the same as 21 wounds on a Khorne Grinder. A Nurgle caster nearby can also throw d3 wounds back on it. They can be killed, they just take a lot of firepower to do so.
Compare them to a knight at 24 wounds for twice the price. That's the best thing these guys have going for them, and they are built tough.

The OK: Punching MEQ
The warp claw is the way to go with these guys every time. Doubling the attacks to 6 attacks is very good. STR 8, AP -2, D3 wounds is actually pretty darn good and will be wounding marines on a 2+. The D3 wounds means it's extra good against bikes.
That said, it's no daemon prince, who has more attacks and hits 35/36 of the time.

The OK: Guns
If the grinder could hit on a 3+ and could move and shoot heavy weapons, people would be saying the grinders are OP. That's because these guns are actually rather good.
The harvester cannon is an autocannon that has 1 extra shot, and the Phlem is great against armor. STR 8, -2 AP, 3 Damage is just bad news for vehicles.
But the problem boils down to the same issue -- hitting on a 5+ sucks. Even a nearby daemon prince will not be that helpful. You often will just forego shooting all together to advance.
If these weapons were assault, they would be perfect -- but someone goofed here. The fact is you always want your grinders in smashing someone's face and not sitting and shooting.
The reason the guns are in OK and not bad is because you can actually use them and hit on a 5+ -- it's just a nice surprise when it happens.

The OK: Movement
8" move out of the gate does not suck. If you are advancing you should be engaged by turn two. It's not as fast as a helldrake, but it is as fast as bloodcrushers.
The grinder does not hit nearly as hard as the bloodcrushers, but is a hell of a lot harder to kill.

The Bad: Hitting on 4s
This is just horrible. I hope GW fixes this in the codex release

The Bad: 3 Attacks
I get that the grinder is a 'tough unit' and not a 'glass cannon' but it's damage output is still lacking IMHO. They should have given it 4 attacks.

That seems to about sum it up. I might give mine a try, as I did work hard on painting it and I'm rather proud of it. His red skin doesn't really look very Nurgle-y, though, and that's most likely how I'd run him.

Tell me about it. I got not one but two defilers! :(

One other way is to have two move up at their normal speed accompanied by a babysitter chaos lord between them to give them a better chance at hitting. (or a dark apostle).

Defiler actually has a chance to wreck stuff with the Gorestorm Cannon, but suffers from the same problems as the Grinder, and can't benefit from demon marks.

Debilitate wrote:
Defiler actually has a chance to wreck stuff with the Gorestorm Cannon, but suffers from the same problems as the Grinder, and can't benefit from demon marks.

Defiler is in a bit better of a place though because you can cast Prescience on it. Not sure if it's enough to make it Good, but it's probably worth a shot.

Huh? I don't think Defiler can use gorestorm cannon. @_@ Gorestorm cannon is an option only for Lord of Skulls.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
One other way is to have two move up at their normal speed accompanied by a babysitter chaos lord between them to give them a better chance at hitting. (or a dark apostle).

Sadly they cannot benifit from a Dark Apostile because they do not have they required keyword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Debilitate wrote:
Defiler actually has a chance to wreck stuff with the Gorestorm Cannon, but suffers from the same problems as the Grinder, and can't benefit from demon marks.

The defiler can go tzeentch and have the changling nearby for a -1 to hit, combining hilariously with smoke launchers.
The defiler can take advantage of the tallymaster if going nurgle.
The defiler CAN take advantage of a Dark Apostile or warpsmiths.
The defiler can take advantage of heralds.
The defiler can bring 2 heavy flamers and a combi flamer.
The defiler can bring a defiler scourge, which is a pretty nice weapon.
The defiler auto-heals 1 wound per turn, which is pretty sweet.

Overall I like the defiler. I wish I had one instead of the 3 soul grinders in my collection

Part of the issue with both the grinder and the defiler is how much better the specialized high toughness platforms for CSM are.

For one Defiler, you can get TWO melee Hellbrutes (Fist/scourge). That's 5 power fist attacks and 3 power scourge attacks, all at 3+. And the Hellbrute does not degenerate as it takes wounds. That's a huge melee monster.

Or if you want to duplicate the Defiler's focus on melee and range, you could get a las Pred and a Hellbrute for not that many more points. A single Laspred provides better firepower than the Defiler, due to it's BS3+. And hell, a cannon pred even offers the same versatility of the battle cannon, and arguably is still more reliable ranged than a Defiler.

And therein lies the problem. The defiler gives nothing unique, it just combines a high toughness fire support with high toughness melee, however it can only do one at a time. But specialized versions of those are better, and dont suffer from the opportunity cost either meleeing or shooting.

For a good hybrid unit, see the land raider. Yes, it's a transport and fire support, but the two functions do not compete. He can transport things in Turn 1, AND then provide fire support. And it offers 2+ transportation that is unique.

What does the Defiler offer?

I suppose the Soul Grinder's only real selling point is that it's summonable, but why would you?