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Although I main Orks I was recently given an opportunity at a lot of Tau, and I would love a more elite army for days when I just can't be asked to unpack 200+ models. While it does seem like Tau took a big hit and some circles are doom and gloom I think Commander Spam is a super viable list and actually pretty fun to play in terms of positioning and movement. Here's what I have as a v1.0:

1 Coldstar Commander w/ HYBC, MP, DC and ATS
12x Commanders w/ 2 CIB, 1 BC, and 1 ATS
26 Gun Drones
2 Cadre Fireblades

3x Supreme Command Detachment - 6 Command Points

Edited the Edit: Changed the list based on feedback from more experienced MathHammer'ers. It is much the same as the initial incarnation but we made some changes.

Everyone has an ATS now, statistically it does seem better and the only downside is shooting the CIB into models with 6+ Saves, which is going to be SUPER rare. Orks should always have a KFF if they're on foot, 'Nids are mixed arms, and so on. I also swapped the MPs for CIBs, there are pros and cons with the MPs having some extra range but I think for the price difference the CIB is the right call from a list building perspective. They are generally better against Vehicles as well, with Markerlights, since they can wound on 3/4 instead of 4/5 with Overcharge. This makes the army significantly better against Knights/Land Raiders. I retain my argument against Fusion Blasters that I've laid out below, while they have the same range as my other guns the CIBs are significantly more multi-purpose which doesn't make the range hurt.

I picked up a Coldstar, this isn't something I'm excited for since I don't think he's good but I had like 16pts leftover and no way to spend it with the Detachments I have to take. He's a bit more of an anti-infantry guy but the one shining thing is the Drone Controller. I have a ton of Drones in this list and with the Fireblade them hitting on 4's is really, really good. I could give him a 4++ but I don't think it's worth it, if he's taking big gun shots then something has gone wrong and I'm almost certainly losing.

The rest of the list is the same except I was able to pick up 3 more Drones with my point savings, which is great. I am legitimately excited to play this army and think it's extremely strong, as I have thought the whole time. Thanks to those who continue to put their feedback in, even if I don't agree I do appreciate having to think about things.

Uhh. What FOC are you using to take that many HQ? I didn't know that unbound was still allowed. Also, I'd take a squad of gun drones for each commander. 48 STR 5 shots for 98 points. I'd also take some fusion on the commanders to take out tanks. Ghostkneels and Stealth Suits are decent now. Might want to take a few of those.

It's 3 supreme command detachments, seeing them pop up all over!

You don't have enough firepower, need more fusion and I'd go 3 MP and 1x flamer or 3 MP ATS or 4 MP on other commanders

I was considering 3 MP 1 Flamer. I don't think Fusion is that good in most situations, it's a very situational gun. Mass MPs will kill anything but T8 skew and I'm really not sure that's worth planning for. But magnets are a friend indeed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited with some big changes.

Knights are very popular and T8 so be care for that.

I've considered this list myself, but math wise spammed pathfinders with ion rifles are actually better at killing things than commanders for the points, like significantly better -- at the cost of durability of course.

Consider throwing in a few drone controllers in there, with the fire blades your drones at 9" range will get 6 shots each, buff their BS by 1 and they'll probably start to out dmg your commanders at close range.

Were I to do something like this I'd probably have single weapon type commanders rather than mixed. That way it makes it easier to protect the weapons you need (with drones) and unload them in a single volley at the enemy. 3MP 1FL just sounds like a bad combo in terms of range differences.

 Typhon wrote:
Knights are very popular and T8 so be care for that.

I've considered this list myself, but math wise spammed pathfinders with ion rifles are actually better at killing things than commanders for the points, like significantly better -- at the cost of durability of course.

Consider throwing in a few drone controllers in there, with the fire blades your drones at 9" range will get 6 shots each, buff their BS by 1 and they'll probably start to out dmg your commanders at close range.

Were I to do something like this I'd probably have single weapon type commanders rather than mixed. That way it makes it easier to protect the weapons you need (with drones) and unload them in a single volley at the enemy. 3MP 1FL just sounds like a bad combo in terms of range differences.

I haven't done the math on the Pathfinders but I'll take your word for it, that list just sounds like it'd be very squishy. Between Morale and all guns impacting you I think it'd have a much tougher go into many matchups, also much more static. I don't think this list would work without the Commanders being Characters. At that point I'd probably just be better shifting to Foot IG if I'm going 100% competitive.

Yeah the DC is tempting, I think I will run the list a few times and get a feel for how it moves. Auras are very tricky to just imagine, it depends on the rate the Drones die, where I'm positioned, etc.

I prefer the mixed types because on paper I can get focused down for fixed weapon types, again that may not play out on the table and I will test it. Certainly a very valid point.

Knights are popular but statistically the army can kill one, with wounds to spare, in one turn assuming 1 Markerlight and no Cover. That seems like decent attrition but it really depends on build. I think 1-2 Knights will be way more popular, 3-4 Knights is way too R/P/S and has massive mission problems, also they don't deal with Hordes well. So it's a meta call but yes, that would be an unfavorable matchup on paper.

Id suggest a few commanders with 4 fusion blasters, really good at taking out big stuff and always for me so far made their points back, the deepstriking commanders put 2 gun drones on each and backfield ones equip with missile pods and 1 with a DC with a mixture of gun/marker drones.

Ion blasters are another take when overcharged with rerolling 1s.

I think that you are wrong about fusion. I would highly recommend taking at LEAST a few quad fusion commanders. It's actually not the d6 damage that makes them great (although that is nice when popping high wound targets), it's the -4 ap that makes these fusion great. You get great mileage transferring wounds to damage.

Other than that you are going to struggle with high model count armies. I would think about taking a few less commanders and add either more gun drones or fire warriors in devilfish.

Missle pods are overpriced, I prefer the Ion blasters. I think a more competitive build is going to wind up being 6-8 commanders with a lot of small arms spam to back the commanders up.

IF you're running all 12 with 2MP and 2BurstCannon, that is 1 more MP than a coldstar commander, but the coldstar commander for 150 points also has ATS and a shield generator which is HUGE

dabush reminded me of ATS -- it's actually a better take than a fourth weapon in all cases except for with FBs. Your commanders will do more damage for less points vs all targets (except 6+ sv..)

3MP+ATS is better than 4MP by 5 points per damage dealt.

For perspective, a 4MP commander costs 51.6 points to do 1 dmg to a T7 SV3+ model (most vehicles)
A 3MP+ATS commander costs 46.8 points per dmg
A 5 man pathfinder team with 3 ion rifles overcharged costs 44 points per dmg

Missile broadsides with a multitracker are 87 pts/dmg
ATS broadsides are 78 points per dmg (which is garbage)
Missile drones however, with a drone controller are a flat 40 pts/dmg (but still need the drone controller platform)

Firewarriors are 144 pts/dmg

The above said, 5 man ion rifle pathfinder teams with overcharge, by points, are the most effective unit the tau have vs all targets T5 and above with vespid outperforming firewarriors at T5 and below. (vespid are really, really good)

EDIT: I lied, gun drones + a fireblade and with a drone controller nearby, at 9", are the strongest unit in the tau dex at 24 pts/T7sv3+ dmg. If you can take a pulse accel drone you can increase that range to 12".
-- EVEN WITHOUT A DRONE CONTROLLER THEY OUTPERFORM FIRE WARRIORS, TWIN PULSE CARBINES OP

Suks wrote:
I think that you are wrong about fusion. I would highly recommend taking at LEAST a few quad fusion commanders. It's actually not the d6 damage that makes them great (although that is nice when popping high wound targets), it's the -4 ap that makes these fusion great. You get great mileage transferring wounds to damage.

Other than that you are going to struggle with high model count armies. I would think about taking a few less commanders and add either more gun drones or fire warriors in devilfish.

Missle pods are overpriced, I prefer the Ion blasters. I think a more competitive build is going to wind up being 6-8 commanders with a lot of small arms spam to back the commanders up.

I maintain my stance on the FBs, I don't think they work out on the table compared to paper. You can't just look at expected damage, you have to examine how the army plays. Getting that close is not always going to be viable and FBs are insanely easy to counter with bubble-wrap. 8th Edition is going to be very heavy on chaff. Only Marines can't really do that and ONLY if they don't take Conscripts, which any competitive list will. Range is a very valuable stat. There's going to be a big emphasis to prevent these kind of Deep Strike hits, and with Infiltrate or me going second it's VERY easy to keep me out of 18" on a Vehicle/Monster.

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ATS sounds good to me, I will run some numbers and see how that goes. Cheaper cost adds up over a list.

Not sold on the Coldstar, his extra movement is whatever and the Invulnerable doesn't excite me. I don't see it as a valuable bonus in this type of army. Paying more points for less guns in return for things I don't feel I want right now is a hard sell. Testing may determine otherwise, the best I can see him doing is tanking big shots if the Drones all go down for the other Commanders, but even that is super dicey.

So it looks like commander spam beats out crisis suits. My typical 3 man crisis teams with 6 drones cost almost the same as 2 commanders with 4 drones. The commanders have BS2 and can almost bring the same number of weapons.

The disadvantage is that it would be harder to hold an objective with the commander and if they can get through the drones then they are vulnerable to high damage weapons.

Thanks for the ideas - I'm going to experiment with with 1 supreme command detachment and 1 vanguard detachment.

Missile pods with ATS and 4x fusion seem like they would be the optimal loads.

Made some further changes.

Hey, I could be wrong, but this seems like it's one of those lists that's pretty RPS based. If you check out the Frontline Gaming guys (who are playtesters, have played a ton, etc.) they seem to think things like this are going to fall by the wayside in favor of more balanced lists.

I'm not sure if you agree, but if so this seems like a good opportunity to get a jump on the meta by looking into lists that incorporate a wider mix of units - just something to consider.

I can see how you'd have that opinion, however I've always been someone who favors presenting one type of target while dealing with multiple types of targets. A true RPS list is like 3-4 Knights, it has so much Toughness and Wounds that most armies can't deal with it, depending on mission, but if they can then it loses hard. My goal for this list was to be able to deal with many types of threats, which I think the guns I settled on do well. However it only presents one type of target for my opponent, meaning that small arms fire is a little less powerful and I can take out what threatens me. This is something that true RPS lists can struggle with, Knights for example can't often bring enough firepower to deal with a tank army which could in turn counter them.

Hordes lists are the same way, my Ork armies are all Infantry which makes anti-tank shooting less effective. However I take things that let me deal with tanks, so I'm more all comers. I do watch the Frontline guys a lot and I see what they're talking about, stuff like Knights and Conscript spam and all that. But this list has decent numbers, good speed, great maneuverability, and can deal with pretty extreme lists skewing towards hyper elite and hordes. I don't think it's unbeatable but I think it's a solid all comers Tau build that's not going to have only auto-wins and auto-losses, which is what RPS usually does.