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I always tend to focus on a particular SM chapter during different editions. In the past it's been white scars and iron hands, however I think 8th edition will be an edition where space wolves really shine. I like building TAC lists, I love snowflake rules, and I try to build lists that extract maximum value/efficiency. The Space Wolves have stood out to me in this regard, this list reflects that, and here are a few of units and ideas that really stand out to me. 8th edition, I think, will be the edition of the lascannon, and the space wolves do lascannons pretty well. I think long fangs are pretty bonkers now. 40 points for a BS 3+ lascannon that also rerolls 1's to hit is incredible value. Fire discipline as a built in snowflake rule on what are basically standard marines is a real standout and I started my list with some long fangs. I wanted a battalion for at least 6 command points so I wanted one of my HQ's to cheaper; I went with a bare bones rune priest to tuck in with the long fangs and provide them with storm caller for a +1 to saves for added durability. The other HQ is just insane value, I really think some one made a mistake with the point cost. Consider Arjac Rockfist at 140 points: WS 2, STR 5, wounds 5, attacks 4, 2+ save, ok pretty standard so far, 3++ reducing all damage by 1 (cause why not), rerolls failed hits against characters, +1 attacks to nearby wolf guard (easily worth 30-50 points), reroll to wound rolls of 1 for all nearby SPACE WOLVES (what?), and swings at WS 2+ with a STR 10 ap -3 hammer that does d3 wounds, a flat 3 against characters or monsters, and can also be shot at 12 inch range before charging (what the kids call killy). This guy is a beast for 140 points. Pairing him with a unit of wolf guard terminators, 3 attacks each now, to deep strike in. I think thunderwolf cavalry have retained their potency and I'm excited to include them, with toughness 5 and 3 wounds each they're durable, and with 5 attacks each they're going to put on the hurt - i've included a unit of fenrisian wolves to absorb wounds for them as they lope across the battlefield, plus, style points. Finally I think the razorback is back, it's a cheap way to bring a twin lascannon while also providing durable and mobile protection for your msu troop choices. This list puts out a staggering 16 lascannon shots a turn, which is borderline overkill ant-mech/monster, but it also allowed me to go with frost swords on the two melee units; I have more than enough multi damage shots, so now I save a lot of points, strike at WS, and still get str 5 -3 ap.


Battalion Detachment

HQ – Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword (Long Fangs)

HQ – Arjac Rockfist

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Melta Gun
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Lascannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Melta Gun
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Lascannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Melta Gun
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Lascannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Melta Gun
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Lascannon

Elites – 5x Wolf Guard Terminators w/ Frost Swords & Storm Shields (deepstrike with Arjac)

Fast Attack – 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ Frost Swords & Storm Shields
Fast Attack – 8x Fenrisian Wolves

Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon
Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon

i think your list is good but not really optimized for 8th. Your meta may vary of course. The HQs are solid. There's no arguing that Arjac isn't a tremendous value for what he does. I like to deep strike him in to bolster an assault. I think plasma is the better weapon over melta currently. It has better range and fire output than melta guns. Twin Lascannons are very pricy. Twin assault cannons are better for horde control and put out a ton of shots. You have enough lascannons in your long fangs, and even that may be too many. Terminators are better assigned a shooting role with a couple of close combat weapons and maybe a shield. Mortal wounds bypass invul saves so investing a lot of points here is questionable. The same applies to the TWC. Their storm shields are way too expensive. If I bring TWC at all I go with one shield for every three models. Again, mortal wounds hurt an already expensive model. The Fenrisian Wolves will fold pretty quickly to battle shock and are an easy source of first blood for your opponent. I've tried to make them work and they just don't survive.

Thanks for the input, valid points. It sounds like you like the bones of the list, but would change around various load outs, I can see that. Plasma for melta is an easy swap and is basically points neutral. Same with twin assault cannons versus lascannons, 42 points compared to 50. I think the swords are cheap enough on the terminators and I mainly include them to take advantage of the +1 attack for arjac. I agree on the fenrisian wolves, but two points, one, if they choose to waste shots on them to completely wipe them out, it may sometimes be worth giving up that one victory point to protect a more valuable unit, and two, I just love the way they look with thunderwolves lol. Finally, you other main critique is to cut down on the number of stormshields, that's going to free up some amount of points, do you have suggestions for those points?

People seem to criticize storm shields since they claim all armies throw around Mortal wounds left and right. I disagree with the statement. I don't think Mortal wounds are all that common outside of Smite spam which I don't think will be a common tactic. Consider if you'd face a mirror list with 16 lascannons. You'd really want to have those storm shields around.

But I agree that you might have a few too many lascannons in case you face a horde army.

Yeah Weazel, I didn't say it but was thinking it. Mortal wounds are a thing, but I just haven't seen them much in my testing, with the exception of smite of course. They really appear to only come in on psychic powers or as special rules on named characters melee weapons.

 Weazel wrote:
People seem to criticize storm shields since they claim all armies throw around Mortal wounds left and right. I disagree with the statement. I don't think Mortal wounds are all that common outside of Smite spam which I don't think will be a common tactic. Consider if you'd face a mirror list with 16 lascannons. You'd really want to have those storm shields around.

But I agree that you might have a few too many lascannons in case you face a horde army.

I've seen quite a bit of mortal wounds capability in my opponent's lists. Smite, GK version of smite, sniper rifles, Typhus, etc. I didn't say that storm shield were totally useless but that every model doesn't need to have one, especially at 15 points each. One or two at the front of a pack to ensure you make it to combat is usually sufficient.

@peteralmo: yes, I do like the framework of the list but not the particular load out. Twin assault cannons only cost 35 points compared to twin las, which is a significant savings in a points constrained environment. For the terminators I'd probably keep the frost swords, maybe a chain fist or hammer, and then have the rest with storm bolters or a combi or two. Drop them in cover or on an objective to make your opponent dig them out. The rule of cool for the Fenrisian Wolves is okay but far too many games are decided by that single point from first blood for me to consider including a soft unit in a competitive list. I have been experimenting with wolf guard using jump packs and storm bolters. They have been pretty good in both ranged and melee combat. I use them primarily for counter horde work.

My goodness you're right, I hadn't caught that on the twin assault cannons, they don't follow the same point rule on other guns by simply doubling the cost for the twin version, at 21 a piece but only 35 for a twin that's great value, good catch, I'll certainly be utilizing that.


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What do you think of this change, I dropped the fenrisian wolves, changed the twin lascannon to twin assault cannon on the razorbacks, dropped the melta guns, and so was able to increase the total number of thunderwolves by 3. I made them into two 4 man squads and included only one thunder hammer / storm shield in each to tank wounds, the other three still have frost swords, but with plasma pistols instead of storm shields, they seemed like great value for only 7 points each and being able to shoot them even in combat on your turns is excellent. I had 20 points left over and has an awkward time slotting it in somewhere, hence the grey hunter pack leaders have power axes.


Battalion Detachment

HQ – Rune Priest w/ Runic Sword (Long Fangs)
HQ – Arjac Rockfist

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords & Power Axe
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords & Power Axe
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords & Power Axe
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords & Power Axe
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Elites – 5x Wolf Guard Terminators w/ Frost Swords & Storm Shields (Deepstrike with Arjac)

Fast Attack – 4x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 1x TH-SS & 3x Frost Swords-Plasma Pistols
Fast Attack – 4x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 1x TH-SS & 3x Frost Swords-Plasma Pistols

Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon
Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon

That looks pretty good. I would recommend that you reallocate the plasma pistols to your grey hunters but that is more of a preference thing. As far as your tactics, I would consider using Arjac to support your TWC assault. They have the wolf guard keyword so benefit from his buff. Maximizing those attacks is pretty great.

Again, OMG, didn't connect the fine prints lol, thanks! That is just more added built in value I was over-looking.

Another idea concerning your TWC is to run one guy in each pack with just a storm shield and chainsword to tank the big stuff. You don't want to lose your thunder hammer due to tanking wounds.

Ya just pare down by about 4 lascannons. Grab Missile Launchers or even just heavy bolters for some anti blob in place of those cannons.

My meta is VERY mechanized, for me, keeping the lascannons is a specific need, but I like the idea of not investing further points into the storm shield since he will indeed be trying to tank the big hits.

What i would do for maximum efficiency , i dont know what models you have but anyway

Keep arjack, he is great

Change runepriest with a biker wolf lord with twin bolters and TH/SS

Replace terminators with bikers (all shields, all storm bolters, all twin bolters, 1 thunderhammer to the leader)

Loose one troop squad with its transport and add wolf guard jump packers (2-3 shields, 3-4 combis, 1 thunder hammer on leader)

Keep thunderwolves with shields maybe reduce them to 4 but loose the frost swords (chainswords are fine) but add a thunder hammer to the pack leader

keep the 2 long fang squads with las cannons

add a scout squad with plasma - combi plasma, or melta - combi melta and 1-2 plasma pistols for bakc line harassment

use the rest of the points for 3 troops and 3 razorbacks


In that way you get +1 A to thunderwolves, bikers and jump packers from arjack, reroll 1s to hit from lord and 1s to wound from arjack, 40 bolters shots from bikers with rerolls. Arjack dros with jump packers and is supported by biker lord, bikers and thunderwolves. Long fangs provide long range fire support, scouts drop where needed. Troops move inside their transports. If you got spare points replace biker lord with logan for reroll everything.

Cool looking list, but do you end up with a mobility problem? The initial drop in will be fine, but beyond that first engagement Arjac wont be able to keep up with thunderwolves, bikes, or jump packs. I'm also noticing that on all your melee units, jump packs, bikes, and thunderwolves, you have no upgraded melee weapons save a single thunder hammer in each group. Do you really think mass str 4 ap 0 will pack enough of a bite? Even with the increased weight of attacks?

Lord , bikers , jump packers thunderwolves and razorbacks are pretty mobile, arjack will buff them for a turn or two and then he will head for a charge somewhere. 40 str4 shots with rerolls can wreck face especially horde armies (nids, orks, astra militarum etc). You have the lascannons , combi weapons and scouts for anti tank - anti MC, and you have the bikers and assault cannons on razorbacks for anti horde - anti light vehicles. Regular thunderwolves have 2 attacks its not worth it to give them a special melee weapon , the pack leader though has 3 and he can always die last.

That's insanely awesome!

I laughed when I realized what you were saying. Five Wolf Guard bikers at 12" range can throw down forty boltgun shots and using the Wolf Lord and Arjac to reroll ones is just mean.

Sounds like it's time to dust off some bikes. I haven't used them since third edition, but it sounds like it may be time to see if they can get there points back!

Thank you!

40 shots, are you thinking the bikes are a 10 man squad?


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Or can bikes now fire off there twin bolters and storm bolters in the same turn?


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Yeah, I see it now, that's cool. Any thoughts on Wulfen in 8th?


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Thinking of something like this, it's a bit of a mixture using some of your ideas and some of my own. I drop the fourth grey hunter unit but keep the twin assault cannon razorback by attaching it to one of the long fang units, it can serve as protection in the backfield instead of the scouts. I include your biker unit with the Wolf Guard Battle Leader on bike to create the massive bolter goodness; but in lieu of the jump pack wolf guard I went with a hefty group of wulfen all with sword and hammers - they don't benefit from Arjac's +1 attack, but with 3 base and hammers they're already extremely killy, but, they give out an additional +1 attack to everything around them, which is pretty insane, having the wolf guard bikes and thunderwolves on +2 attack (i wonder if the wolves themselves also get +1 attack from the wulfen, would be very sweet).


Battalion Detachment

HQ – Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Bike, Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
HQ – Arjac Rockfist

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Elites – 5x Wulfen w/ Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

Fast Attack – 5x Wolf Guard w/ Bikes, 5x Storm Shields, 4x Storm Bolters & Thunder Hammer

Fast Attack – 4x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ Thunder Hammer & 2x Storm Shields

Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon
Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

I believe that the WGBL and Arjac both let you reroll 1's to wound.

So what you want is a Wolf Lord that let's you reroll 1's to hit along with either Arjac or a WGBL. So that you'll be rerolling 1's to hit and 1's to wound. That's were the magic happens when you're throwing 40 dice down on the table from one units shooting.

Agreed, though I'm not sure off the top of my head what within the SW index gives re rolls on 1's to hit, though having the +2 attacks is sort of accomplishing the same math.

Yea wolflord rerolls 1s to hit, battle leader/ arjack 1s to wound. So you need the lord or logan . Wulfen must always take a pack leader and he must always have twin claws, no thunder hsmmer/ss option for him. The list is good, i would make the wulfen 3th/ss 2claws and loose 1 or 2 thunder hammers here and there and upgrade battle leader to wolf lord and you are good to go.

A couple questions, where in the wording of the Wulfen does it say the pack leader has to only have frost claws, I see that it says he has to start with them, but then it says any wulfen can exchange etc etc, isn't he considered wulfen?

And second, The Wolf Lord only comes in Foot Slogging or Thunderwolf variety, the above suggestion was for him on a bike, which is why I thought he meant WGBL, am I missing something there?


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Here's one possible alteration. Now you're getting your re rolls of 1's on hits and wounds, and + 2 attacks on the bikes and thunderwolves, +1 attack on the two HQ's, the Wulfen are already three attacks base and with death frenzy it offsets the loss of + attacks anyway. The biker unit alone can fire off 40 bolter shots at 12 inch range and then charge in with 20 chainsword attacks and 5 thunder hammer swings lol.


Battalion Detachment

HQ – Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf w/ Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
HQ – Arjac Rockfist

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon & Storm Bolter

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Troops – 5x Grey Hunters w/ Chainswords
Transport – Razorback w/ Twin Assault Cannon

Elites – 5x Wulfen w/ Frost Claws, 4x Thunder Hammers & 4x Storm Shields

Fast Attack – 5x Wolf Guard Bikers w/ 5x Storm Shields, 5x Storm Bolters & Thunder Hammer

Fast Attack – 5x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/ 2x Thunder Hammers & 2x Storm Shields

Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon
Heavy Support – 5x Long Fangs w/ 4x Lascannon

On page 130 of Index: Imperium 1; it specific lists that in order to use a generic Wolf Lord you are to use the Space Marinre Captain from (pg 12). Two entries below that say that if you want a Wolf Lord on a Bike, you need to use the Captain on a Bike from (pg 14).

Problem of a Wolf Lord on a bike: Solved! Let's reroll some 1's to hit!

Under the entry for the Wulfen, it says that any Wulfen can be upgraded to a TH/SS, but gives no provision for an upgrade to the Pack Leader. One may think that the PL is a Wulfen too; however upon examining every other datasheet, we realize that PL upgrades are always listed separately from the rest of the unit. So without a specific entry to upgrade the PL to a TH/SS we must deduce that he is stuck with a pair of Frost Claws until further notice. Silly, but the way it is.

Hope that clears some things up.

I am so very much looking forward to running a unit of Wolf Guard Bikes. I've never been a fan of TWC. Marines riding giant wolves has never felt right, and I was never really impressed with the models. So while everyone else was running TWC Deathstars, I was still using massed units of Blood Claws and Grey Hunters with armored support. I wish SW's had scout bikers, as the idea of elite outriders doing recon ahead of the main force works, but as it is it looks like for now Wolf Guard will be filling role, and probably doing a good job of it.

Thanks for clearing that up. So it's basically a difference of 30 points. The Lord on Bike kitted exactly the same is 30 points cheaper than the thunderwolf lord listed. For those 30 points your gaining a wound and 3 attacks from the thunderwolf itself. Am I missing any clear reason to have him on a bike rather than a wolf?

Not really.

The bikes are a little faster and come stock with Twin-Boltguns. So by taking the TWC mount you pay thirty points to gain the wound and the three CCW attacks, but you give up 4" of movement and four Boltgun shots at 12".

It's really all in how you want to play it.

the last list is great,i would go with the mobility of the wolf lord on bike and use the spare points for more shields in twc. Thats all i would do. Allin all very optimized list and great variety which willmake it fun to play for sure

PS the difference between bike lord and t-wolf lord is 28 points cause pou pay for the twin bolter 2 points no free rides anymore

Thanks lonewolf81, appreciate the feedback, not sure which way I'll go on the Lord, but either way he'll be good. I was a little hesitant to include the Wulfen, being as pricey as they are and not having the wolf guard keyword for added synergy. But I got a chance to see them in use recently against a khorne force and they were pretty unbelievably good lol.

Lonewolf81 is spot on with the points it's a 28 not 30 point difference, sorry. I'm still trying to unlearn the last twenty years of list building and wargaming and trying to account for every piece of wargear gets a bit tiresome.

Something else you may want to consider is looking into a five man unit of Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles. The way Space Wolf Scouts now deploy, and the fact that they have the ability to cause Mortal Wounds and you can shoot with Sniper Rifles even when you move, albeit hitting on 4's most of the time, they can be positioned to target enemy Characters that are hiding out of LOS (Commissars come to mind). They can also be set up to move on an out of the way objective late game, or even just set up for line breaker, which really should't be a problem with the speed of your army, but every tool has it's place.

I've used my scouts a few times and had pretty good success so far.

I fully intend to use a unit of scouts with sniper rifles to move on from my enemies board edge and claim objectives or slot some characters that are out of LOS for the rest of my army.

Gives your opponent a nice headache when they are moving, not knowing exactly where that threat will come from.


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Also, you now have no anti psycher of any stripe and are potentally at the mercy of your enemies worst powers. How important is arjac? Because a RP on a bike using jaws of the world wolf would be a wonderful addition. You ,ay get thd points by dropping a few other bits in your list like some shields etc

Fitting in Psychic is always nice, but it's not uncommon to have play psykerless armies, and if you read the initial post, Arjac is a major force multiplier here, he kind of ties the list together, but thanks for the feedback.

I apprecite that, trust me! I want to find a way to use arjac without a landraider, because as you say he is a cool force multiplier. Also a cool model!

Are you going to use him by Deepstriking him in when your WG are able to make the charge so that you can use his bubbles? So he becomes a potential FM for one turn or so before he footslogs around.

Personally if it were me i would assume you are charging something dangerous with your WG bikers, i would spend the CP to attack first and thin them out so Arjacs bubbles dont haves as great of an effect. I appreciate that can be done by anyone for any charge, but if you can expect the hammer that one turn then you can plan to try and break it a little first!