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We are still testing the 8th edition. Unfortunately, our favorite Chaos hasn’t shown any impressive results yet. Everything that used to perform above average is now much weaker and everything that used to play only under Legion and formation buffs has now lost it. Well, it’s time to search the very bottom and check whether it’s time to take some units from the dusty shelves. Remember, we were promised that “Everything will be playable»?

We consciously refused of God’s units – it’s a topic for another article. Also, we excluded nameless Lords, who are totally useless until we have artifacts again. So, why don’t we choose Huron as a warlord and create an army of Red Corsairs – unusual, however, not changing anything concept.

Lord Huron himself hasn’t changed much. He can 2 psychic powers instead of 1 and they are no longer random. And he hits better. So – a nice leader, who can support his unit with magic and deal some damage in close combat.

I really want to test the Possessed. Now they are less random – constant rend -2, and 7 inches movement is nice bonuses. Unfortunately, they are still too expensive, if you count in points. But they have almost the same power level as a tactical squad, which is much better.

Another unit, that everyone laughed at – Warp Talons. While the Possessed have lost some of their disadvantages, Warp Talons are almost the same (only the price is lower). Close combat unit with only 1 attack in profile can’t count as effective. The Possessed at least have the chance to get 3. They had the chance to charge after Deep Strike with the formation – so nothing special here. Even the number of attacks is the same. Well, the lack of grenades is no longer a problem. Fine. They could be a suitable unit for cleansing enemy rearward or scoring, but with the new Deep strike, it’s not easy to find a 9-inch space near the place you need.

Mutilators…Well, if you successfully charge after coming from the reserves, you have the chance to hurt a weak infantry unit. Again – in case if you are lucky and your random weapon works well. In contrast to Obliterators, their minimum strength is 6 and you can’t seriously threaten vehicles. They could be effective holders, but they could be effective holders, but now everyone can easily leave close combat. So – it’s total fail, whatever you take.

Hellbrut and Defiler are the only units, which used to be useless but became better. The first one works the same as the loyal dreadnaught – as a fire platform for lascannons and missiles. His crazed table finally doesn’t degrade him and gives a chance to attack one more time. Also, he’s a bit more durable now. 8-inch movement allows you to use him also with close combat wargear.

Defiler is now much more dangerous. A usual claw now hits with 16th strength which lets you destroy everything with no effort. Also, you can exchange flamers for the scourges in order to get some more attacks with strength 12. The only problem is that when it moves, it hits only on 5+ with ranged weapons. So, you have to choose – what’s more important. However, the close combat potential is so huge that it’s worth loosing ballistic skill for a while

Fiends are mostly the same – if you liked them before, you’ll like them now. Shooting edition can still destroy enemies with Hades autocannons (ectoplasma’s range makes you come closer, and here we lose BS again). It’s a mistery why Maulerfiend has lost his movement distance – in won’t destroy the balance anyway.

As you can see, nothing has greatly changed. While Tyranid players are getting all the boxes, since they really have the whole army playable, Chaos martyrs will still have a lot of their miniatures on the shelves. I don’t understand, what gamedesigners were thinking about – with magic, obliterators, helldrakes being nerfed they didn’t give us any alternatives. The only way to play Chaos effectively is to use the same Predators-HWT-gunline as loyalists. But there’s no Guilliman and Centurions…

Read more in our blog: https://warzone40k.com/chaos-weak-units

Warp talons have two attacks as they have dual lightning claws (so they will have the same amount of attacks as the possessed average). Still overpriced compared to raptors for alpha-strike, though.

Chaos martyrs?

Says it all, really.

As analysis goes, very shallow observations , and missing a lot of details.

Also, we excluded nameless Lords, who are totally useless until we have artifacts again

I.. What? There seems to be a weird looking at the units going on here.

I basically understood the kind of "analysis" this is when i read: Chaos Lord useless.
You guys clearly needs more playtesting WITHOUT having a preset idea. Play the new game. Chaos lords are never useless, they are tactical.
Defiler became good? yeah if it was for free. more than 200 pts for the thing is ridiculous (where it WS3+ and BS 3+, then...)
As a Chaos Martyr myself i can say that this is the first time since like forever where i can field a lot of raptors and not be crippled by the fact.
Also, this post will never be read by op..so, whatever.

Tomorrow (hopefully) have a rematch game where I took what are arguably the worst 7th ed units and played with a friend under 7th ed rules (he played Dark Eldar). My list includes possessed, dark apostle, obliterators, havocs with heavy bolters, warp talons, chosen with CCWs, and a helbrute. I'm hopeful it won't be as bad as indicated here (I'm actually fairly optimistic about it).

Hellbrut and Defiler are the only units, which used to be useless but became better. The first one works the same as the loyal dreadnaught – as a fire platform for lascannons and missiles. His crazed table finally doesn’t degrade him and gives a chance to attack one more time. Also, he’s a bit more durable now. 8-inch movement allows you to use him also with close combat wargear.

You should always be taking a CCW with your hellbrute.
They come with 4 base attacks, and adding that CCW gives them a nice additional threat. If you are just looking to stuff heavy weapons into your army, you should be looking at Havocs and not Hellbrutes.

 Teena Hancock wrote:
We are still testing the 8th edition. Unfortunately, our favorite Chaos hasn’t shown any impressive results yet. Everything that used to perform above average is now much weaker and everything that used to play only under Legion and formation buffs has now lost it. Well, it’s time to search the very bottom and check whether it’s time to take some units from the dusty shelves.

Why not wait until the codex is released before you put the 'nail in the coffin' for Chaos forces.

I've also had good luck with my CSM forces. They are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Hellbrut and Defiler are the only units, which used to be useless but became better. The first one works the same as the loyal dreadnaught – as a fire platform for lascannons and missiles. His crazed table finally doesn’t degrade him and gives a chance to attack one more time. Also, he’s a bit more durable now. 8-inch movement allows you to use him also with close combat wargear.

You should always be taking a CCW with your hellbrute.
They come with 4 base attacks, and adding that CCW gives them a nice additional threat. If you are just looking to stuff heavy weapons into your army, you should be looking at Havocs and not Hellbrutes.

Predators are also pretty good if you want your heavy weapons loaded on something a bit tougher.

SilverAlien wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

Hellbrut and Defiler are the only units, which used to be useless but became better. The first one works the same as the loyal dreadnaught – as a fire platform for lascannons and missiles. His crazed table finally doesn’t degrade him and gives a chance to attack one more time. Also, he’s a bit more durable now. 8-inch movement allows you to use him also with close combat wargear.

You should always be taking a CCW with your hellbrute.
They come with 4 base attacks, and adding that CCW gives them a nice additional threat. If you are just looking to stuff heavy weapons into your army, you should be looking at Havocs and not Hellbrutes.

Predators are also pretty good if you want your heavy weapons loaded on something a bit tougher.

Very true.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Hellbrut and Defiler are the only units, which used to be useless but became better. The first one works the same as the loyal dreadnaught – as a fire platform for lascannons and missiles. His crazed table finally doesn’t degrade him and gives a chance to attack one more time. Also, he’s a bit more durable now. 8-inch movement allows you to use him also with close combat wargear.

You should always be taking a CCW with your hellbrute.
They come with 4 base attacks, and adding that CCW gives them a nice additional threat. If you are just looking to stuff heavy weapons into your army, you should be looking at Havocs and not Hellbrutes.

I'm always going to advocate that you should trade in the base helbrute hammer for a Scourge, it's only 3 points more but you go from a more specific form of killy (High wound targets) to unit blender as you now have 7 attacks.