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I'm really in need of a good brush that won't eventually curve on me, but it seems that Sable brushes come from skinning the pelts off weasels which I'm not into. I'd rather not support this practice just to have a good brush to paint with. Anyone have experiences with great alternative brushes?

All synthetics will eventually curve. That said, you could give these a try.

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/black-swan-brush-sets

You going to stop using money(10 million a year death toll) and buying things that are shipped via vehicles combustion? All joking aside sure a vegan paint supply place exist. Or better yet make your own paint. After all oil is in paint. Plastics bottels pigment derived from animal sources. I hear good things about finger painting.

I did a quick google search and synthetic sable seems to be a thing, whether it eventually curves like other synthetics I can't say for sure.

I use some no name brushes I get at the art store, apparently they're ox hair which is just cow tail hair. I'm not sure if the qualms comes from killing an animal or just doing it for the hairs, but these would just come from animals that are already going to be eaten anyway so that might be a little more ethical.

 ForceChoke wrote:
You going to stop using money(10 million a year death toll) and buying things that are shipped via vehicles combustion? All joking aside sure a vegan paint supply place exist. Or better yet make your own paint. After all oil is in paint. Plastics bottels pigment derived from animal sources. I hear good things about finger painting.

None of which is actually relevant, nor a useful answer to the question. Please keep the editorialising for elsewhere and stick to the topic.

As noted, synthetics all curl. It's really hard to get a good brush not made from real hairs.

Maybe some of these paint brush makers could look into the synthetics being used in newer synthetic shaving brushes. The good ones can perform as good as, if not better, than high end badger or boar shaving brushes. Unless it's already been tried? Then again, I haven't looked very closely at my Razorock shave brush to see if any have curled or not.

EDIT: Oh well, just took a close look at my synthetic shave brush, and the tips do have little curls to them. Not a problem for a shaving brush, obviously. I just know that synthetics have taken the shaving brush industry by the storm in the past several years due to increased quality, so I wondered if it was at the point where it could work for painting.

IIRC for synthetics they do ALL curl
from what i remember however you can keep them alive a little longer by cleaning them with a good brush soap as normal but also wash them in colder water

warm or hot water will feth up most brushes in general.

 ForceChoke wrote:
You going to stop using money(10 million a year death toll) and buying things that are shipped via vehicles combustion? All joking aside sure a vegan paint supply place exist. Or better yet make your own paint. After all oil is in paint. Plastics bottels pigment derived from animal sources. I hear good things about finger painting.

you can't avoid causing some harm, so what's the point in trying to cause less, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Todosi wrote:
All synthetics will eventually curve. That said, you could give these a try.

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/black-swan-brush-sets

thanks, I was looking at these ones as well:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/escoda-versatil-brushes/

sounds like they have similar quality, but couldn't find anything about their durability -which is really what i'm after


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
IIRC for synthetics they do ALL curl
from what i remember however you can keep them alive a little longer by cleaning them with a good brush soap as normal but also wash them in colder water

warm or hot water will feth up most brushes in general.

hm, didn't know that about warm water, thanks. I just got on to the brush cleaner recently, but it seems the brushes still curl :/

If it makes any difference, the weasels used for sable brushes aren't only harvested for making brushes.... The rest of the fur would be used elsewhere, and the meat is also apparently used.

And they're an environmental pest, so would be trapped anyway.


If you would prefer to avoid animal hair brushes, there's nothing wrong with good quality synthetics for the average painter. They just won't last as long. The difference they'll make to your paintjobs is unlikely to be a real factor for anyone other than high-end painters.

 insaniak wrote:
If it makes any difference, the weasels used for sable brushes aren't only harvested for making brushes.... The rest of the fur would be used elsewhere, and the meat is also apparently used.

And they're an environmental pest, so would be trapped anyway.


If you would prefer to avoid animal hair brushes, there's nothing wrong with good quality synthetics for the average painter. They just won't last as long. The difference they'll make to your paintjobs is unlikely to be a real factor for anyone other than high-end painters.

Yeah, I did read that, but I also found a site saying:
"Apparently, these weasels are caught in leghold traps or snares, and the pelts are sold to the brushmakers who pluck and sort the hairs. An RSPCA survey in 2011 showed that 95% of British people would not wear real fur. And leghold traps are so cruel they were banned in England & Wales in the 1950s for being “too inhumane”. Further to that, Russia and China have minimal animal protection laws. In countries like Canada or Denmark, in theory, animals should not be left in traps for more than a day (they end up trying to chew their own leg off or dying in some other grisly way). China or Russia don’t have similar animal welfare standards."

 benlac wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:
You going to stop using money(10 million a year death toll) and buying things that are shipped via vehicles combustion? All joking aside sure a vegan paint supply place exist. Or better yet make your own paint. After all oil is in paint. Plastics bottels pigment derived from animal sources. I hear good things about finger painting.

you can't avoid causing some harm, so what's the point in trying to cause less, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Todosi wrote:
All synthetics will eventually curve. That said, you could give these a try.

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/black-swan-brush-sets

thanks, I was looking at these ones as well:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/escoda-versatil-brushes/

sounds like they have similar quality, but couldn't find anything about their durability -which is really what i'm after


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
IIRC for synthetics they do ALL curl
from what i remember however you can keep them alive a little longer by cleaning them with a good brush soap as normal but also wash them in colder water

warm or hot water will feth up most brushes in general.

hm, didn't know that about warm water, thanks. I just got on to the brush cleaner recently, but it seems the brushes still curl :/

You can't really cause less.

 ForceChoke wrote:


You can't really cause less.

we get it you are edgy

is there anything P & M wise you would like to add?

 benlac wrote:
but it seems that Sable brushes come from skinning the pelts off weasels which I'm not into.

The brushes don't come from 'skinning', they come from the tail.

 benlac wrote:
In countries like Canada or Denmark, in theory, animals should not be left in traps for more than a day (they end up trying to chew their own leg off or dying in some other grisly way). China or Russia don’t have similar animal welfare standards."

I would suspect that the existence or lack thereof of time limit laws for trapping would make little difference to the fur trade... You wouldn't want to leave a potential pelt in a trap for any longer than absolutely necessary anyway, as the longer it's in there, the more chance there is it will end up damaged. [/armchair expert]


Having said that, I can totally understand not wanting to support the fur trade. As I mentioned earlier, synthetics can be more than adequate. Although for synthetics, I tend to stick with the cheap taklon... I've been unimpressed with the synthetic sable brushes I've tried.

 insaniak wrote:

 benlac wrote:
In countries like Canada or Denmark, in theory, animals should not be left in traps for more than a day (they end up trying to chew their own leg off or dying in some other grisly way). China or Russia don’t have similar animal welfare standards."

I would suspect that the existence or lack thereof of time limit laws for trapping would make little difference to the fur trade... You wouldn't want to leave a potential pelt in a trap for any longer than absolutely necessary anyway, as the longer it's in there, the more chance there is it will end up damaged. [/armchair expert]


Having said that, I can totally understand not wanting to support the fur trade. As I mentioned earlier, synthetics can be more than adequate. Although for synthetics, I tend to stick with the cheap taklon... I've been unimpressed with the synthetic sable brushes I've tried.

unimpressed in quality or in how long it's lasted?

 benlac wrote:
In countries like Canada or Denmark, in theory, animals should not be left in traps for more than a day (they end up trying to chew their own leg off or dying in some other grisly way). China or Russia don’t have similar animal welfare standards."

China and Russia don't have similar, or even particularly high, human welfare standards.

The few synthetic sables I've used are nice at first-- they really are-- but they curl and fray, like any other synthetic. I've been painting a long time. I know proper brush care, so it's not me. Use the cheap synthetics like taklon for most work-- base-coating and such, and the synthetic sables sparingly, for the details, to make them last longer. You will still need to replace them far more frequently than a natural sable brush. They are usable though. I have no idea about these black swan brushes. If you get them, a review would be welcomed.

I have heard that some brushes for cosmetics use squirrel hair, but that the brush is cruelty free, that the squirrel is not killed, just plucked somehow-- maybe with a stripping comb? --, and then left to regrow its hairs. Or the manufacturer collects the hairs that the squirrel has shed. Or it's just BS. I suspect BS.

 benlac wrote:

unimpressed in quality or in how long it's lasted?

More expensive than taklon, not really any different to use, and started losing shape almost instantly.

I also stay away from animal-derived brushes.

At the moment I mostly use W&N cotman brushes (round, series 111). I can't say they're miles ahead of cheap brushes you'd find anywhere, but so far they've been amongst the longest-lasting ones.