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You would have thought that Chaos would love to engage in Assassinations and murder. After all, they have no qualms about the morality of killing people at all. How is it that in the entire arsenal of chao core GW, we don't have any snipers at all. And we don't have any sort of more organised groups of snipers like the way the Imperium has their vindicare assassins and such. How the heck are the cultists or Alpha legion doing it? How do you have subversion, plots and such without any form of assassination at all?

So every time chaos wants to "assassinate" someone, they send in some hulking chaos space marine in bulky armor? lol

Chaos does have assassins, they just tend to be the bomb strapped to the chest variety.

It's not really the Chaos MO. Chaos doesn't simply want your flesh, it wants your soul.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Chaos does have assassins, they just tend to be the bomb strapped to the chest variety.

No, the suicide bombers were Imperial.

Regarding it not being Chaos MO... but Alpha legion deals in plots and subversion. So does Tzeentch and Slanaash. Not everyone is all about Kill, Miam and burn! lol

They do. They even sent one out to kill the Emperor. He failed of course.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nemesis_(Novel)

They just don't have rules for them on the tabletop.

Chaos doesn't have any kind of standardized equipment and training for its assassins the way the Imperium does, so their abilities and appearance would vary drastically in every situation.

It's been stated multiple times that some death cult assassins worship Khorne, so you could use the allies rules to have Chaos death cult assassins on the tabletop.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Death_Cult_Assassin

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Regarding it not being Chaos MO... but Alpha legion deals in plots and subversion. So does Tzeentch and Slanaash. Not everyone is all about Kill, Miam and burn! lol

If you're an individual of significance the Chaos MO would be to corrupt your soul. Simply assassinating someone seems like a bit of a waste does it not? As a method it would only be preferred if a 'short game' was necessary, but Chaos specialises in the long game. It operates on an eternal time scale so what's the rush?

The removal of a powerful hero may harm the Imperium in the short term. But corrupting that same individual will also bring all those who answer to him under the influence of the Chaos Gods. The tendrils of corruption reach out and taint his past and future deeds.

Assassination as a method honed to an art makes perfect sense for the Imperium because it is constantly waging war against the inherent corruptibility of man. The Imperium requires powerful assassins for the very reason that its most powerful heroes present the greatest risk of corruption.

I would love rules for a Nemesis type assassin. Combine the culexus, callidus and eversor into one beast with triple the hp and triple the cost.

It's basically for the same reason Chaos doesn't have Razorbacks, Landspeeders, or any of the myriad other things that they theoretically should have but don't - to differentiate them from Loyalists.

If Chaos had access to everything Loyalists have, but with the addition of all the Chaos toys, there would be little point in having a separate Loyalist army book. At that point, you might as well just put it all in one book that allows you to build a loyalist or chaos force as you choose.


Whether or not that would be a good thing, I'll leave up to you.

Also, 10 000 years have passed since they were part of the Imperium. Why would they still use the same toys? This is why I love the new Death Guard so much, because even though they still wear their old power armour, they are using completely new things as well.

Hoping to see even more differing units in the future, like a new Death Guard tank that looks nothing like a Predator or something. The Helldrake and those other releases a few years ago were great additions to the CSM line up, as the regular SM do not have anything like them.

Because when you're so damn badass that nobody talks back for fear of you the Chaos Gods' best offers seem somewhat redundant.

They have a few assassiny types.

Karanak the hunter for example. He hunts you through space/time until he eats you.

Skulltaker is a master character assassin, he just prefers an audience while he works... subtle he ain't

 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Regarding it not being Chaos MO... but Alpha legion deals in plots and subversion. So does Tzeentch and Slanaash. Not everyone is all about Kill, Miam and burn! lol

If you're an individual of significance the Chaos MO would be to corrupt your soul. Simply assassinating someone seems like a bit of a waste does it not? As a method it would only be preferred if a 'short game' was necessary, but Chaos specialises in the long game. It operates on an eternal time scale so what's the rush?

The removal of a powerful hero may harm the Imperium in the short term. But corrupting that same individual will also bring all those who answer to him under the influence of the Chaos Gods. The tendrils of corruption reach out and taint his past and future deeds.

Assassination as a method honed to an art makes perfect sense for the Imperium because it is constantly waging war against the inherent corruptibility of man. The Imperium requires powerful assassins for the very reason that its most powerful heroes present the greatest risk of corruption.

This is a faulty argument and is just plain wrong.

First off, killing someone is just easier and faster than corrupting him, by far. If killing one would cause a whole planet to be vulnerable, why not?

Chaos is pragmatic. They do corrupt people but they also murder them. For instance, in the awful Word Bearers cycle they invade this planet but the first preliminary step before the invasion is the assassination of the Governor and all his councillors.

Bluebeard wrote:

 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Regarding it not being Chaos MO... but Alpha legion deals in plots and subversion. So does Tzeentch and Slanaash. Not everyone is all about Kill, Miam and burn! lol

If you're an individual of significance the Chaos MO would be to corrupt your soul. Simply assassinating someone seems like a bit of a waste does it not? As a method it would only be preferred if a 'short game' was necessary, but Chaos specialises in the long game. It operates on an eternal time scale so what's the rush?

The removal of a powerful hero may harm the Imperium in the short term. But corrupting that same individual will also bring all those who answer to him under the influence of the Chaos Gods. The tendrils of corruption reach out and taint his past and future deeds.

Assassination as a method honed to an art makes perfect sense for the Imperium because it is constantly waging war against the inherent corruptibility of man. The Imperium requires powerful assassins for the very reason that its most powerful heroes present the greatest risk of corruption.

This is a faulty argument and is just plain wrong.

First off, killing someone is just easier and faster than corrupting him, by far. If killing one would cause a whole planet to be vulnerable, why not?

Chaos is pragmatic. They do corrupt people but they also murder them. For instance, in the awful Word Bearers cycle they invade this planet but the first preliminary step before the invasion is the assassination of the Governor and all his councillors.

It's wrong if you take what I wrote at its most literal interpretation but I already qualified my argument which easily covers the scenario you proposed. I'm talking in thematic terms - not suggesting that Chaos would never assassinate an enemy leader.

Assassins fit the theme of the Imperium because the Assassins are an extreme solution to the extreme dangers faced by the Imperium. There are even more extreme solutions such as Exterminatus but the general flavour is that the Inquisition will throw the kitchen sink at any perceived risk of Chaos taint.

I doubt you would have much trouble shoehorning Chaos assassins into the game if you really wanted them but that doesn't mean they're a necessary or justified addition. They're simply extraneous to Chaos as a tabletop faction in terms of both theme and playstyle. And here are plenty of other units we could imagine exist in the fluff in order to shoehorn them into the game if we so desired (and of course GW is more interested in selling plastic crack than thematic integrity).

Voss wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Chaos does have assassins, they just tend to be the bomb strapped to the chest variety.

No, the suicide bombers were Imperial.

'Torias Telion: The Eye of Vengeance' - Chaos suicide bombers attack Macragge.

Because GW haven't finished writing yet another travesty of fluff that would allow them to make a Chaos Officio Assassinorum army.

Give it a year or two.

You can get snipers in the new Lost & Damned forge world list. The Astra Militarum book.

It has annoyed me for years that chaos does not have assassins. In the fluff many death cults are dedicated to Khorne.

But this is just a part of a bigger problem of no-marine or non-demon chaos forces being pretty much ignored. They're the biggest bunch of chaos followers in the fluff, but rather non-existent on the tabletop. There are cultists and some FW stuff that for some reason has stupid random leadership and otherwise is just bad. I'd like to see proper support for normal human chaos worshippers with a lot of variety.

In 4e they could infiltrate at least, and alpha legion (the only legion who could field cultists back then) had the option to make them assassins (though if the sneak up and stab you to death sort). So it's mostly been the focus on chaos powers while ignoring legion stuff that left CSM without "assassin" units.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You would have thought that Chaos would love to engage in Assassinations and murder. After all, they have no qualms about the morality of killing people at all. How is it that in the entire arsenal of chao core GW, we don't have any snipers at all. And we don't have any sort of more organised groups of snipers like the way the Imperium has their vindicare assassins and such. How the heck are the cultists or Alpha legion doing it? How do you have subversion, plots and such without any form of assassination at all?

So every time chaos wants to "assassinate" someone, they send in some hulking chaos space marine in bulky armor? lol

Well, chaos isn't very organised.

I bet that taking part in Officio Assassinorum type of training would drive a typical chaos worshipper sane. Or instead so much more insane that they'd just grab the nearest chain axe and run away screaming from the chaotic assassin temple. Either way, people who align with chaos don't seem like they would care to foster a culture that could produce such an orderly structured institution as Officio Assassinorum.

If chaos were to have assassin units/models, they should be at the level of death cult assassins, tops. That is how far a mere obsession with slitting throaths and/or shooting people will get you in assassination business. To challenge imperial assassins, as an institution,, would require much more.

Chaos doesn't need dedicated training facilities to explain assassins. The human populations around the warp no doubt have a ton of assassins, but they're mostly the run-of-the-mill type of assassin.
There's also going to be the odd mercenary group that are on the level of storm troopers that might perform assassinations, but nothing quite as extreme as the assassinorum temples.
The closest would be cult assassins that worship khorne, though I wouldn't think those are a common sight.

For heretic astartes, an assassin is basically a chosen, so more like special ops soldiers. It wouldn't be a common occurrence for them to perform such a task though.
Alpha legion chosen would be seen more often in this role and as forward scouts, hence them gaining infiltrate in the 7th supplement, but even then they wouldn't be overly specialized for the task.

So on the one hand they are common, but on the other there is no common thread here. They're also not exactly high profile assassins for the most part.
They're a thing, but not enough to make it onto the tabletop.

Let's be honest...an assassin doesn't belong on a battlefield (realistically). Short of a special scenario, an assassin even being present means he screwed up somehow.

 Enigma of the Absolute wrote:
It's not really the Chaos MO. Chaos doesn't simply want your flesh, it wants your soul.

It can be for tzennench.

the whole power play political thing tends to have assassins on occasion.

but as to why. its probably because the 4 assassins require an ungodly amount of resources and technology to produce that i highly doubt the dark mechanicum has access to patience for.

why bother when you can make 20 more dinobots.


not to say the alpha legion dont have assassins or infiltrated agents. but that's non of my business.

The Imperium devotes vast resources from a galaxy spanning empire to create living weapons for the Officio Assassinorum. Chaos is a...chaotic hodgepodge of an infinite array of disorganized groups with different goals who gain great powers from the gods and what they can forge themselves. Very different circumstances, roles and goals.

The forces of Chaos probably arent going to have an Ubersniper assassin because most of the time killing a single high value target in that manner isnt typically a Chaos goal or need, and if it is, they have other methods of accomplishing that.

Chaos assassins are called "raptor lord with chainfist"

Alpha legion will. But they do not build the super human, ultra specials. They are more likely to plot with in plot and just let a rival do it. Trigger a mini civil war in leadership. All off hand, plot with in plots.

Weaken planet with a insurgency, and then decide there time to come has arrived.

I also love the fact we are ignoring that guard and normal space marines can field "assassins" in large numbers. Not even talking about assassin temples, just the huge number of sniper rifles both armies seem to have ready to hand out.

Chaos marines should have snipers of some sort, even if it's just guys who've spent millennia practicing with and customizing their bolters. But we won't because for some reason people still seem to think of chaos marines as all being world eaters who mindlessly charge the enemy.

 alleus wrote:
Also, 10 000 years have passed since they were part of the Imperium..

Only for the original Traitor Legions, not for anyone who turned in the 10000 years since then.

And even for the originals Legions and those who turned with them, it's only been 10000 years in the material universe. Time works differently in the warp.

This reminds me of the Black Hand assassins guild in oblivion. The majority of assassins in the guild are stealthy but this 1 orc straight up knocks on the front door and slays in broad daylight.

All chaos from Heretic Astartes to Cultist are assassins who takes a direct and overt approach instead of subterfuge and covert approach.

Chaos do have assassins in a fashion.

Read the Gaunts Ghosts books and in one Chaos send the 'Paters' to kill Gaunt.

One of which was a dreadnought!