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[Warning: Lots of Math done at 4AM in this thread. I'm talking more about concepts and less about pure MathHammer.]

I've been pouring over Orks since the leaks for 8th Edition dropped and really liking what I see with the exception of one thing: the factions ability to deal with armor. Initially I wasn't sure how big a deal that would be since who knew what the meta would be but for the moment Mech is very powerful. A lot of early days builds are revolving around 3-5 Waveserpents, 5+ Razorbacks, 3-5 Fliers, 1-2 Super Heavies, and so on. Much is this is coming from Marines since some of these options are underpriced and can have too many buffs layered on them but that's neither here nor there. The fact is that armor is a thing and Orks need a way to deal with it.

For our popular tools we have the following, let me know if I missed anything:

Powerklaws
Rokkits
Tankbustas
Lootas
Smite
Mek Gunz/Big Gunz

I have neglected to add Flamers since although it's funny that Flamers auto-hit Fliers it's not practical to get them in range repeatedly, and do enough damage, to bring down any meaningful tanks or fliers. I'm also not including massed Big Shootas/Shootas since the math on them is extremely bad. I'm also leaving out massed melee attacks, as someone who plays Green Tide this will get the job done but typically takes 2-3 Turns and obviously requires a Charge, both of which have a lot of pitfalls and do not impact Fliers in anyway.


Powerklaws
When I say Powerklaws I am talking about mass Powerklaws, so either Meganobz/Nobz or several Characters. By itself a Meganob will average about 1.5 Wounds on your average Tank, T7 and a 3+ Save, discounting possible penalties to hit besides the PK itself, Invulnerable Saves, and so on. This does improve if you have a Waaagh! Banner around but that can be difficult to engineer depending on the Charge and the table/footprint of the target so I don't assume that's a given. Meganobz also obviously cannot attack Fliers so they aren't much help there. In practicality Meganobz also need a delivery system since they're slow and prone to getting shot up, screened, or assaulted. This all applies to Nobz as well. Characters are a bit different for Warbosses but the rest are about the same although easier to deliver because of the Character Rule and possible Warbikes, although they're of course much more expensive.

Powerklaws have a lot of obvious downsides with being unable to project force, being unable to impact the game until Turn 2-3, having to concentrate on one target against a canny player, and so on. They also cannot impact Fliers which are shaping up to be a major "thing" in the game because of their powerful rules, which means they're a tool which doesn't work on every job. For this reason I've mostly discounted Powerklaws due to their expense, delivery requirements, and inability to smack things with wings. Zhadsnark is an exception to this in my experience since his math is much better, have +1 to Hit and Attacks over a normal Warboss, but he's just one model.

Note that this doesn't include Kan Klaws, Dreadnought CCWs, and so on but they have pretty much the same pros/cons although without being able to be sped up or protected as easily, but they do 3 Damage flat to help makeup for it.


Rokkits
Ranged attacks are an obvious choice for softening/removing armor and Rokkits are the Ork go to weapon. They have the statline for the job, wounding most Tanks on 3's and putting them on a 5+/6+ Armor Save in a vacuum while also dealing good damage that you don't have to roll for. Rokkits also have good range and are an Assault Weapon, meaning they're a bit more versatile in terms of deployment and what platform they go on, most armies anti-tank guns are Heavy. The problem I've encountered with Rokkits is one almost as old as the army, there's few ways to get them in the required numbers given our BS5. Ork Boyz can take them in respectable numbers but in practice Ork Boyz need to Advance in the early game and then often get into Combat, hitting on 6's with your Rokkits and then have them used as a club isn't the best value. Vehicles have trouble taking them in sufficient volume to counter our poor to hit odds, usually coming in at 60-70+ Points per. Vehicles are also more vulnerable in some matchups and prone to alpha strikes outside of Deff Koptas and Buggies, who can go into Reserves.

On my math it takes 18 Rokkits at BS5 to kill a T7, W10, 3+ Save vehicle without any other penalties or bonuses. That's 216pts in Rokkits, plus platform costs, with it being a bit more if they're Racks of Rokkits. That doesn't feel very good to me, especially against Mechanized armies which will have reasonable numbers of vehicles and/or better defensive profiles.


Tankbustas
My math on these guys is actually pretty good, for 255pts you get 15 Rokkits and you get to re-roll failed hits against Vehicles, which since were Orks there will be a lot of. On our typical target with T7 and a 3+ Armor Save they'll deal just shy of 14 Wounds (after Armor Saves and Damage), which blows up quite a lot of vehicles in the game. Against Fliers they average about 3 Wounds (not Damage), which could do decently depending on the Armor Save of the Flier. However they cannot Advance or deal with any other penalties, otherwise they just auto-miss.

Unfortunately while the math is good, the unit seems bad. They're very expensive, coming in at over 1/8th of a 2000pt army, and they're just T4, 6+ Armor Save Orks with a mid-range gun. This is going to require either a Battlewagon or a Trukk (for a smaller unit), which adds yet more cost and probably needs buffs/help of its own to not just get blown up. At the most two units of Tankbustas seems reasonable, which with associated support is going to come in at 1/3 or more of your armies total points. To me that's not a compelling value for such a squishy unit that cannot guaranteee an alpha-strike but that's just my estimation.


Lootas
Autocannons are in a weird place right now where they wound most vehicles, and monsters, on a 4+ and don't have sufficient AP to actually punch through that often. This can be made up with volume, such as the popular Rifleman Dreadnoughts, and Lootas can bring volume. However this is part of their issue as the unit is extremely random, if each model rolled a d3 for number of shots we could probably approach a more reliable value but that's not possible. I'd say Lootas have to have a Command Point ear-marked anytime they roll a 1,2 for their d3, so that is part of their cost. On my math Lootas with do 4-6 Damage to a T7, 3+ Armor Save target when they get 30 shots, and 6-8 when they get 45 shots.

On top of not being able to destroy a Rhino under pretty ideal circumstances, they're also a static unit because of their Heavy weapons and suffer the exact same problem as Tankbustas in terms of their platform. They come in at the same cost as Tankbustas, despite appearing worse against almost all targets, and recently had their Battlewagon nerfed so they can no longer move around to gain LoS without suffering -1 to Hit. In practicality Lootas seem downright awful, on tables with proper terrain they're easily maneuvered around, they're worse than Tankbustas in numerous ways, and they don't bring any bonuses or resilience on top of being more random and probably costing Command Points to utilize.


Smite
While normally not a great anti-vehicle tool, Smite has some interesting applications with Orks. For one were the best army at casting and resolving it since we can force bonuses with our other models near the Weirdboy, although that will depend on how many Orks you bring to a game. In the same vein we can easily push into d6 Mortal Wounds, which is good when needed. The drawbacks to Smite are obvious, it has to target the closest model and since the Psychic Phase is before Shooting/Combat it's not too hard to screen vehicles and force us to eat through those models first. That being said screens are dependent on the army composition and some mechanized variants are extremely light on chaff. Smite has decent range since it can be used after Moving or even Advancing without penalty, although it cannot be used inside a vehicle which hurts mechanized players.

Smites also come at a higher price point, similar to Rokkits, on a 62pt body. Weirdboyz themselves have pros and cons, they're fairly easy for us to protect since they're Characters but things that can get to them will put them down easily. Weirdboyz are also prone to Perils of the Warp, further softening them up as well as making repeated Smites difficult to pull off.


Mek Gunz/Big Gunz
There's a few entries here but I'd like to focus on Kannons, Zzap guns, Kustom Mega-Kannons, and Smasha guns. Traktor Kannons are pretty anti-Flier focused, although were not given +1 to Hit against them for some reason, which makes them pretty much worse thank KMKs against even what they're supposed to shoot at. Bubblechukkas can only cap out at S6, not good enough, and are way too random.

Kannons are pretty much just a big Rokkit 27pts, so fairly comparable to two Rokkit Launchas. For that you get the same AP, one less shot with +1 to Hit, +12", and d6 Damage instead of 3. Personally I prefer 3 Damage since d6 can be very swingy, ymmv. This does come on a more resilience platform than some Rokkit Launcha options and also has a second mode which isn't valuable for anti-armor but is a thing. Zzap guns are in a similar boat although with a random Strength, averaging S7 but swinging up or down depending on luck. They do have a point extra AP which is quite nice and if you roll very high you just get 3 Wounds, clocking in at 30pts with the same other stuff as the Kannon.

On the Mek Gunz side we get more Wounds on the platform but also more cost as were forced into more Grot Gunners and a pricier model. KMKs have a solid profile with AP 3 although only d3 damage, a battery of three average out at 5-6 Damage on the T7, 3+ Save target and comes in at 144pts. Smash guns are pretty random, not only do they only get one shot but they wound on 2d6 against Toughness, although with a good profile of Ap 4 and d6 Damage if they do so. I'm not great at the math on those but a battery of three seemed to do around 5 Damage but there's a ton of variance in there.

Overall all the artillery has problems with LoS since they're Heavy weapons and are painfully slow, as well as 36" ranges which means they can just be outranged in some cases. The platforms themselves aren't that durable and usually require a KFF to avoid going down to even mid-power shooting. Lastly they can have Leadership problems in larger groups which they can't get around since they lack Mob Rule, and taking them in smaller units can make Detachments/Deployment a bit messier.

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All of this paints a pretty grim picture for Ork anti-armor. Our best option seems to be Tankbustas but honestly I just don't think they work in a real game, any opponent will put whatever shooting they can into them from the word go if they're a serious threat to their army. If they aren't a threat you've then dumped serious points into a unit that's not flexible and now has no real role. Orks lack anyway to buff shooting in the ways many other armies can and our dedicated batteries have a lot of problems in addition to not being all that cheap. Tankbustas seem like they would work best in a mechanized Ork army since you will want Battlewagons anyways but they do cost a lot and that army can struggle with putting enough models on the table.

Personally I play Green Tide and have experimented with both Smite and putting Rokkit Launchas in Boyz units. I found the latter to play terribly, you often get 1-2 turns of shooting and then you're stuck in. Sometimes an opponent will Withdraw but that's often to shoot you up more so the chance to fire again comes at a cost. Green Tide almost always has to Advance as well since it is primarily a melee army and as I mentioned hitting on 6's isn't great. From my perspective Smite has worked the best, although it's still not great, since it works on the go and Weirdboyz are very multi-purpose with not only their other Psychic Powers but their surprisingly good melee profile. Smite also tends to work well against Fliers as they're difficult to screen, although models with Hover get around that easily.

Primarily Orks seem to blow up or at least deal with vehicles by Charging them. Massed S4 attacks will do damage in reasonable amounts to anything but Land Raider profiles, however this doesn't account for Fliers and also has issues against the FLY Keyword since we'll just get continually shot and Overwatched until the tank is actually dead. Again there seems to be really no counter-play to that, it just is what it is.

While I haven't experimented with Mechanized Orks since I don't believe them to be terribly powerful and I also don't like vehicle based armies, the options for Green Tide and Mechanized seem weak. This may not be a huge issue in a vacuum but Flier armies are ramping up in popularity as are cheap tank armies, neither of which Orks seem to have the tools to deal with in the current game. This may be resolved sometime in the future, either with a Codex or with the game changing to more of a progressive scoring model which Orks would likely excel at. For the time being the game is what it is and without the tools to deal with the armies that are powerful in the early days Orks don't seem to have a seat at the big boys table in terms of power. While that is meta dependent I'm not sure how viable it is to just dodge mechanized armies at a tournament as they're a very popular way to play.

I'm curious if any other Ork players have similar/differing thoughts. Forge World gave us no real help (not that it should be relied upon) and throughout my time playing the game Orks have never been good at killing vehicles. This seems to be the major hold back on them as a powerful faction in competitive play and I'm not sure there are any answers out there.

1) I think that Orks right now can do very little against fliers. And while smite and stormboyz would be good in theory, it really requires your opponent to make some mistakes in movement. I think it is a very real weakness.

2) I agree that rokkits in boyz squads is a horrible option. The same with rokkits on deffdreads. Kommandos with rokkits in cover are decent.

3) Kannons are decent also. They are twice as expensive as rokkits, but that discounts the cost of the delivery platform of the rokkiit, and the 4+ BS of the grots.

4) I am personally not that concerned with tanks and transports. The most effective counter seems to be to ignore them. Boy-blobs are not great vs armor, but armor tends to perform poorly against boy-blobs in return. Transports of course should never be attacked.

5) Playing maelstrom or similar really helps orks against flier and tank lists.

6) Character spam can also help orks against heavy armor. Warbosses and meks on bikes are fast becoming a staple of green tide lists, and will often be the best anti-armor unit in the list.

I agree on most of your points and absolutely agree that progressive missions are needed to curb a lot of this stuff, not just from an Ork perspective but for game health. Not quite sold on Kommands with Rokkits, they still seem to have problems with volume and their Save is still not great.

My disagreement is that you can ignore tanks and transports. Does that work for a majority? Sure. But from a competitive standpoint where people are pushing out 6 AC Razorbacks with Guilliman or Azrael, Dreadnoughts, IG tank columns (the good ones), Immolators, heck even Waveserpents that we have trouble killing and can just leave, shoot, and keep blocking. Those are really big challenges for Orks to overcome as things stand right now. Some of that may change, but I don't like counting on that.

Are MANz packs and MANz/trucks an option?
I've read they aren't as good as previous,
but they were my real anti-armor tool, and I've got
a bunch painted up...
(haven't had a chance to play yet... bad summer)

They still don't address the flyer aspect, either...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've never tried Ork flyers,

are they a possible deterrent / solution to enemy fliers?

if so, which seem best to y'all?

Regarding meganobs they are significantly better with dual saws not thier normal profile. Also ghaz is just as mean in combat as zhardsnark. However zhardsnark is better because his threat range is huge. But ghaz and dual saw mega nobs are slow.

With tankbustas you missed squigs and tankbusta bombs both of which are even better numbers wise. It's typicallly why I use 2 units in a trukk so I can throw 2 bombs and 2 squigs and use it as a mobile gunboat. It's expensive though and not really efficient.

Pretty much everything you said is true however the FW bigtrakk with supa scorcha is a decent against flyers. 24in range auto hit 4d3 shots, str6 ap-2 1 damage. And good to hold a squad of tankbustas.

I think orks are largely the same as 7th ed with the greentide being the best list because it's antimeta forcing ur opponent to TAC vs assault hordes.

Unfortunately the 10ppm genestealer cult stealers just makes an Astra militarum detachment with a genestealer detachment out assault orks.

The solution can't always be to use the OP FW models. The lack of antiair weaponry across the faction is at best an oversight by GW. All factions should have options that allow them to kill aircraft efficiently, or we get aircraft spam lists.

Fortifications used to be how any army could gain access to at least somewhat usable anti-aircraft, but now with the flat 5 to hit, they're a none starter.

For now against mass fliers try to play the mission best you can and hope you can last.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

All of this paints a pretty grim picture for Ork anti-armor.

That's correct.

The best option is to ignore flyers, tie up vehicles and score maelstorm. Boyz can wittle down most medium ground vehicles across 2-3 turns. And it's not easy to take flags away from boyz. Furthermore, there are a coupleoptions that tend to do nice vs multi-wound targets. Like Ghaz and bosses with banner nobz.

So far, most of my successful games with orks are revolving around me pressuring the opponent as hard as i can for the first 3-4 turns and than, after all the boyz are down, trying to survive with those couple grots left on board vs ~50% of the opponent's army. But the maelstorm points allready gained early on are usually suffecient enough for a win.

 koooaei wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

All of this paints a pretty grim picture for Ork anti-armor.

That's correct.

The best option is to ignore flyers, tie up vehicles and score maelstorm. Boyz can wittle down most stuff across the game And it's not easy to take ground away from boyz.

So far, most of my successful games with orks are revolving around me pressuring the opponent as hard as i can for the first 3-4 turns and than me trying to survive with those couple grots left on board vs ~50% of the opponent's army. But the maelstorm points gained in the first half of the game are usually suffecient enough for a win.

While I do agree Scenario is the way to go, it's going to be awhile before that really trickles down. If your area plays Maelstrom that's awesome, I think it has issues but less issues than Eternal War. I also think eventually the powers that be (not GW) will get us better missions but those things take time to make it all the way down the chain. Until then Orks are going to suffer, badly, in many games and probably many tournament games. I'd also like to see the terrible rule where if you table your opponent removed from the mission pack but that is my opinion and my love of the AoS missions is heavily coloring my judgement.

what about our flyers and storm boys?

Yeah, we're playing either maelstorm or a mix of maelstorm+eternal. But almost never strictly eternal. That changes a lot. I think it's actually a more balanced approach cause it provides some options for counterplay vs stuff you can't phisically kill.

sossen wrote:
The solution can't always be to use the OP FW models. The lack of antiair weaponry across the faction is at best an oversight by GW. All factions should have options that allow them to kill aircraft efficiently, or we get aircraft spam lists.

there isn't much OP with any Ork FW choices. Antiair is largely dependent on stormboyz and other flyers and our antiflyer options aren't very strong. It does t help the stormraven is undercosted for its profile.

joshua.gray.williams wrote:
what about our flyers and storm boys?

Stormboyz are fine, but it's hard to have enough to deal with more than one or two flyers. Each one expects to do 0.22 wounds to a T6/7 3+ flyer when it charges, so you want 63 or so to deal with a Stormraven. A Nob with a power klaw is worth about 7.5 regular Stormboyz. It's hard to catch the flyers without Da Jump, and even with that you only have about a 50% chance of making a charge. Meanwhile the Stormboyz are prime targets, and a cheap anti-infantry Stormraven expects to put down 16 of them in a turn of shooting.

Ork flyers are not much better at shooting flyers than anything else in the list. A Dakkajet with 6 supa shootas expects to put 1.5 wounds on a T6 3+ flyer. Orks simply don't have an interceptor-type flyer that can shoot multi-damage weapons at flyers without penalty.

I think that Kannons and Zzap Guns might be okay with judicious use of Command Re-Rolls. With a Kannon, if one of your shots gets a wound that isn't saved and the wound roll is low it can be re-rolled. With Zzap Guns if there is a particularly high strength roll the to-hit roll can be re-rolled. This can only be done once a shooting phase, so it doesn't really work if we're spamming the heck out of artillery, but it helps. Getting lots of command points seems pretty easy with Orks.

In the Orks tactica thread people are talking about Killa Kanz with Kustom Mega Blastas. That might be worth consideration.

One strategy that doesn't kill vehicles but can tie them up pretty well is to keep charging them with our transports. Trukks with Wreckin' Balls probably won't kill an enemy tank, but if it constantly has to fall back it can do a lot to limit it's shooting. Battlewagons with Deff Rollas are pretty decent in close combat (for a transport). This doesn't really work against flyer or walker heavy lists, of course.

The Meka-Dread with Big Zzappa might be worth consideration. It could potentially synergize well with artillery or Killa Kanz as both a shooty unit and a KFF platform. It's Forge World, so YMMV.

Meganobs with double killsawz buffed by a Nob with Waaagh Banner are pretty good against vehicles, but expensive. They need a transport to actually have a chance to get into combat with the vehicle, making them even more expensive.

I haven't done the math on regular Nobz with Big Choppas or Power Stabbas against vehicles. Could they be an option for Green Tide orks?

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I agree on most of your points and absolutely agree that progressive missions are needed to curb a lot of this stuff, not just from an Ork perspective but for game health. Not quite sold on Kommands with Rokkits, they still seem to have problems with volume and their Save is still not great.

My disagreement is that you can ignore tanks and transports. Does that work for a majority? Sure. But from a competitive standpoint where people are pushing out 6 AC Razorbacks with Guilliman or Azrael, Dreadnoughts, IG tank columns (the good ones), Immolators, heck even Waveserpents that we have trouble killing and can just leave, shoot, and keep blocking. Those are really big challenges for Orks to overcome as things stand right now. Some of that may change, but I don't like counting on that.

That may be. I am just not that worried about anything T7 or below, even without dedicated anti-tank in my list. Large boy blobs and smite will deal with rhinos and deffdreads reasonably well. And while rhinos and razorbacks are very tanky units, most of their damage output is carried inside. The idea that transports needs to be blown up I think is somewhat of a leftover from 7th, where transports were very fragile and where CC was very deadly but also very hard to get into and out of. Waveserpents may be a different tune as they can fall back and shoot (like crisis suits). I haven't had any experience against eldar in 8th.

I think that green tide list has a very real weakness against T8-heay lists, as the damage output from big choppas and small choppas alike drops off steeply against T8. Ironically I think that a Orks has one of the better hardcounters to green tide lists: Hardtop Deffrollawagon, Gorkanaught and Dakkajets would be very good against the greentide, as charging a Gorkanaught or a Deffrolla is a lot less fun than charging a Razorback.

pismakron wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I agree on most of your points and absolutely agree that progressive missions are needed to curb a lot of this stuff, not just from an Ork perspective but for game health. Not quite sold on Kommands with Rokkits, they still seem to have problems with volume and their Save is still not great.

My disagreement is that you can ignore tanks and transports. Does that work for a majority? Sure. But from a competitive standpoint where people are pushing out 6 AC Razorbacks with Guilliman or Azrael, Dreadnoughts, IG tank columns (the good ones), Immolators, heck even Waveserpents that we have trouble killing and can just leave, shoot, and keep blocking. Those are really big challenges for Orks to overcome as things stand right now. Some of that may change, but I don't like counting on that.

That may be. I am just not that worried about anything T7 or below, even without dedicated anti-tank in my list. Large boy blobs and smite will deal with rhinos and deffdreads reasonably well. And while rhinos and razorbacks are very tanky units, most of their damage output is carried inside. The idea that transports needs to be blown up I think is somewhat of a leftover from 7th, where transports were very fragile and where CC was very deadly but also very hard to get into and out of. Waveserpents may be a different tune as they can fall back and shoot (like crisis suits). I haven't had any experience against eldar in 8th.

I think that green tide list has a very real weakness against T8-heay lists, as the damage output from big choppas and small choppas alike drops off steeply against T8. Ironically I think that a Orks has one of the better hardcounters to green tide lists: Hardtop Deffrollawagon, Gorkanaught and Dakkajets would be very good against the greentide, as charging a Gorkanaught or a Deffrolla is a lot less fun than charging a Razorback.

Let's follow your Rhino example, Razorbacks are a bit different and will actually be protected because they put out big damage. If we can't blow up the Rhino, and we can't surround it (canny players will rarely let this happen unless you get a huge charge roll), are we not just opening ourselves to a disembark, Withdraw, and shoot? It's not that I'm scared of the Rhino, I'm scared of the alpha from the Rhino that I cannot do anything about. Orks are durable, that's kind of our thing, but taking never ending punches to the face is not a good place to be. Now Rhinos can be blown up in one turn, even without big guns, but it is a symptom of a greater issue. To me.

Tankbustas I think might actually be one of the best anti vehicle units in the game, even though in theory I agree you would think they would just get shot off the table instantly. If you have the points I'd give them a bare bones battlewagon put like 3 squads of five in there with 5 bomb squigs and keep it by something with a KFF. I saw another battle report today where a guy took a morkanaut with kff and just 10 tankbustas in a trukk and he was playing against imperial guard. The tankbustas pretty much single handedly blew up like 2 lemon russ, 2 chimera, and a tank commander I think it was. Bomb squigs blew up one by themselves. oddly, it also seemed to help that he was splitting damage on the tanks so instead of focusing on blowing up one at time he would chip at multiple ones so they would have to hit on 5/6's.

As far as flyers go, we are definitely at a disadvantage. Kannons I believe do the most damage per point out of all the mek/big gunz on average so maybe a squad of five of them would be a good place to start. Lootas are trash. Storm boys will probably be hit or miss. A full squad of tankbustas plus a full squad of kannons should be able to deal with most vehicle issues...I think

It's an interesting choice - a trukk or a wagon for tankbustas. Initially, i thought trukks would suffice. But 161 pt wagons are just twice as expensive as trukks and look like they're twice more durable. Another option is a forgeworld trakk with a supa skorcha which looks like a decent weapon. However, Forgeworld is illegal ©

Anywayz, i think that a bunch of min squads of tankbustas in trukks or wagons are the way to go for mech orks. Tankbustas are decent at actually killing stuff. And if the enemy can't just concentrate on them - like in our own mech spam army - than they don't suffer from durability issues so hard either.

But i'm currently fielding footsloggas like you. And i agree with your point of view on tankbustas in such lists. They are extremely vulnerable cause of speed difference. If in mech lists the opponent just concentrates on tankbustas, he's gona have to deal with nobz, meganobz and bosses that are up there wrecking his vehicles with big choppas, klaws and killsaws. However, in a horde army he's more or less protected from footslogging boyz for 1-2 turns and he can just concentrate on killing those tankbustas in trukks or wagons - which ain't all that hard for most armies.

I haven't fielded tankbustas with my footsloggas yet cause of this problems but i guess i'll just go for it to see how it goes when we start playing games at higher point levels. Currently our games are mostly up to 1250. And at that point level hordes tend to do the job. But the higher you go, the more positioning problems footsloggas have and the more tempting mech becomes. When we go 1500+, i'll field 2 tankbusta trukks just to feel how they fit and what can be done to improve our tankhunting approach.

 koooaei wrote:
It's an interesting choice - a trukk or a wagon for tankbustas. Initially, i thought trukks would suffice. But 161 pt wagons are just twice as expensive as trukks and look like they're twice more durable. Another option is a forgeworld trakk with a supa skorcha which looks like a decent weapon. However, Forgeworld is illegal ©

Anywayz, i think that a bunch of min squads of tankbustas in trukks or wagons are the way to go for mech orks. Tankbustas are decent at actually killing stuff. And if the enemy can't just concentrate on them - like in our own mech spam army - than they don't suffer from durability issues so hard either.

But i'm currently fielding footsloggas like you. And i agree with your point of view on tankbustas in such lists. They are extremely vulnerable cause of speed difference. If in mech lists the opponent just concentrates on tankbustas, he's gona have to deal with nobz, meganobz and bosses that are up there wrecking his vehicles with big choppas, klaws and killsaws. However, in a horde army he's more or less protected from footslogging boyz for 1-2 turns and he can just concentrate on killing those tankbustas in trukks or wagons - which ain't all that hard for most armies.

I haven't fielded tankbustas with my footsloggas yet cause of this problems but i guess i'll just go for it to see how it goes when we start playing games at higher point levels. Currently our games are mostly up to 1250. And at that point level hordes tend to do the job. But the higher you go, the more positioning problems footsloggas have and the more tempting mech becomes. When we go 1500+, i'll field 2 tankbusta trukks just to feel how they fit and what can be done to improve our tankhunting approach.

I have not tried them myself since I only play footslogging but just on paper I don't see it working out. There probably is a world where if the meta becomes super, super mechanized that Orks do the same and just camp with KFFs inside vehicles, bringing pretty minimal models. I'm trying to get more games in against mechanized players but I have a ton of Tyranids in my area and everyone is is kinda still trying stuff that worked in 7th Edition. I've had decent results with my Warbike Characters just eating Overwatch and removing actual tanks from the game, but Transports are a bit dicier. Probably just have to combo-charge them with a unit and like two Warbosses, or get Smites off, and then Consolidate into the unit.

Numbers are one of our bigger advantages at least for tying things up because you can leave 1-3 guys of the combat and know they'll consolidate into a tank line. As people get more screens though that will go away unless we also bring some more guns.

Ya I run footsloggers too so I definitely see the concern with running them. A trukk will usually be able to weather the first turn of shooting with the help of a kff, and a bw should be able to stand two turns or more depending on how fast you can get the rest of your army into combat. Usually I'm running weirdboyz in my lists to try and get one or more of my boys squads into combat turn 1, so they're usually gonna be too preoccupied to focus fire on the tankbustas. Either way it's probably best just to try them out and see how it goes.

the short answer to the OP question is no, the long answer is we have a few tools but we pay out the nose for them and when compared to other armies they are insulting. somebody at GW decided they wanted orks to just be boys backed up by a few buff HQs this edition in the indexes hopefully the codex will address this